All Blacks v Pumas 1
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
Is Havili better starting at 12 than Tupaea?
Don't think so.
Think we need a fatty there. A Laumape, an Umaga Jensen brother.
Heck give Roger a go.
Havili is being picked to do Aaron Mauger things and he is trucking it up as if he is prime Nonu and getting rag dolled.
We have lost 6 out of 8 so most of the incumbents can have no quibbles about being dropped.
Cant get any worse can it.
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@broughie said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Steve The problem is not the backs. We lost in the forwards again especially in the second half. This makes the backs look ordinary.
Im not disagreeing but jeez we don't help ourselves.
We are being beaten by teams with Mack Hansen, De Allende, James Lowe in their backs.
Bundee Aki couldn't get in the NZ squad 10 years ago.
I think we have had a Savea problem and a Barrett(s) problem for about 5/6 years now. They are undroppable yet upset the balance everywhere else.
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What to say. Argentina deserved that, their defence was awesome.
I’m sorry but cane HAS to go, he’s just not contributing enough.
Oh well, we can look forward to the challenge of facing Argentina next week.
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@Tim said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@pukunui Oh we have way further to go.
This coach thinks that Cane is a better player than Papalii. He is a fucking moron.
I’ve seen nothing from papalili in black to suggest he’s the answer. At all
I’d be on the give sotutu a run at 8 and move savea to 7 train though.
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@Tim said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
Cliches:
A leopard doesn't change it's spots.
Well, Ian Foster is a born fucking loser promoted through the mediocrity worshipping NZ system. Sam Cane is another absolute born loser.
Guess what? It's another record loss!
Jeepers mate. Settle down. I think cane should be dropped but you’re losing self control there buddy.
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@Machpants said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@NTA said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@MN5 said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
Better balance ? More like two extremely forgettable All Blacks.
Maybe. But you need a proper 8 and a proper 6 to help that 7 be a proper 7.
I'd argue it is a better backrow than what went out there tonight.
Ardie is a 7, not an 8, for all the yards in contact he makes.Lot of talk on here tonight about playing guys out of position, and the only way to fix that? Well, seems obvious.
The Ardie at 8 is a really interesting phenominom, fenominum, phenomenon. Whatever. It started with coaches, I am pretty sure in ABs, realising his potential off the back of an attacking scrum. He's so fucking awesome at that. And even when he was playing 7, he'd go to the back for attacking scrums. That's really where is should have ended. But it didn't. And our best 7 since Richie has been unbalancing back rows since
The problem is that in a game like tonight where tough yards need to be made Ardie is not the size 8 we need. It was a tight game and it needed to be grind for the full 80. We don't have an 8 with power because we have not been looking for one because Ardie has been occupying that position because of our current coach. He does not have the foresight too drop Cane, move Ardie to 7 and then experiment at 8. This is a long standing problem. He has been holding onto a bunch of old men and the decline in them is getting worse each year.
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@MiketheSnow trying to put lipstick on a pig. Thanks
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@ACT-Crusader nice neutral tones jersey. A cardie would have been more appropriate.
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@Billy-Tell said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Tim said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@pukunui Oh we have way further to go.
This coach thinks that Cane is a better player than Papalii. He is a fucking moron.
I’ve seen nothing from papalili in black to suggest he’s the answer. At all
I’d be on the give sotutu a run at 8 and move savea to 7 train though.
Blackadder and Grace are to the manor born.
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@broughie said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Machpants said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@NTA said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@MN5 said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
Better balance ? More like two extremely forgettable All Blacks.
Maybe. But you need a proper 8 and a proper 6 to help that 7 be a proper 7.
I'd argue it is a better backrow than what went out there tonight.
Ardie is a 7, not an 8, for all the yards in contact he makes.Lot of talk on here tonight about playing guys out of position, and the only way to fix that? Well, seems obvious.
The Ardie at 8 is a really interesting phenominom, fenominum, phenomenon. Whatever. It started with coaches, I am pretty sure in ABs, realising his potential off the back of an attacking scrum. He's so fucking awesome at that. And even when he was playing 7, he'd go to the back for attacking scrums. That's really where is should have ended. But it didn't. And our best 7 since Richie has been unbalancing back rows since
The problem is that in a game like tonight where tough yards need to be made Ardie is not the size 8 we need. It was a tight game and it needed to be grind for the full 80. We don't have an 8 with power because we have not been looking for one because Ardie has been occupying that position because of our current coach. He does not have the foresight too drop Cane, move Ardie to 7 and then experiment at 8. This is a long standing problem. He has been holding onto a bunch of old men and the decline in them is getting worse each year.
I am not arguing with that. He is loyal to a fault.
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@Victor-Meldrew I don't know about over the top. There were some good things that appeared to be happening. Although maybe the Boks really are not that good which made our second test result look even better. The Boks looked horrible yesterday. I think the first half for us was good and we stuck to a plan. This went out the window in the second half for some reason.
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@Steve said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Billy-Tell said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Tim said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@pukunui Oh we have way further to go.
This coach thinks that Cane is a better player than Papalii. He is a fucking moron.
I’ve seen nothing from papalili in black to suggest he’s the answer. At all
I’d be on the give sotutu a run at 8 and move savea to 7 train though.
Blackadder and Grace are to the manor born.
Blackadder is injured as I’m sure you are aware and grace is yet to be tried this season (somehow the chiefs 8 got selected ahead of him for an anonymous few minutes as an AB, never to be picked again I would guess)
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@broughie said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Machpants said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@NTA said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@MN5 said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
Better balance ? More like two extremely forgettable All Blacks.
Maybe. But you need a proper 8 and a proper 6 to help that 7 be a proper 7.
I'd argue it is a better backrow than what went out there tonight.
Ardie is a 7, not an 8, for all the yards in contact he makes.Lot of talk on here tonight about playing guys out of position, and the only way to fix that? Well, seems obvious.
The Ardie at 8 is a really interesting phenominom, fenominum, phenomenon. Whatever. It started with coaches, I am pretty sure in ABs, realising his potential off the back of an attacking scrum. He's so fucking awesome at that. And even when he was playing 7, he'd go to the back for attacking scrums. That's really where is should have ended. But it didn't. And our best 7 since Richie has been unbalancing back rows since
The problem is that in a game like tonight where tough yards need to be made Ardie is not the size 8 we need. It was a tight game and it needed to be grind for the full 80. We don't have an 8 with power because we have not been looking for one because Ardie has been occupying that position because of our current coach. He does not have the foresight too drop Cane, move Ardie to 7 and then experiment at 8. This is a long standing problem. He has been holding onto a bunch of old men and the decline in them is getting worse each year.
Yep. Ardie is a stud and his leg drive is unreal. Ardie plays beyond his size.
But we don't actually need that all the time. We need a David Lyons or a Read type who crashes on to the ball at full pelt and when tackled is falling forwards. A fucking big lump.
The guaranteed 4 yard gains every carry.
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@broughie said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Victor-Meldrew I don't know about over the top. There were some good things that appeared to be happening. Although maybe the Boks really are not that good which made our second test result look even better. The Boks looked horrible yesterday. I think the first half for us was good and we stuck to a plan.
It was Ireland II or France EOYT 2021 all over again - except the good bits happened in the first half. Apart from the scrum and 1-2 mauls, there was zero go forward, mistakes at critical times and poor breakdown work.
This went out the window in the second half for some reason.
Poor prep/coaching of the replacement forwards most likely. Breakdown work fell apart when they came on.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@broughie said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Victor-Meldrew I don't know about over the top. There were some good things that appeared to be happening. Although maybe the Boks really are not that good which made our second test result look even better. The Boks looked horrible yesterday. I think the first half for us was good and we stuck to a plan.
It was Ireland II or France EOYT 2021 all over again - except the good bits happened in the first half. Apart from the scrum and 1-2 mauls, there was zero go forward, mistakes at critical times and poor breakdown work.
This went out the window in the second half for some reason.
Poor prep/coaching of the replacement forwards most likely. Breakdown work fell apart when they came on.
And perhaps some panic because we were not making the easy yards we have been accustomed to.
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@Steve said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
Gregor Paul was on Irish podcast after the South Africa game to talk about Fosters backing from NZRU.
He opined that maybe a lot of the players backed Foster because if Razor was appointed they would be dropped....
If not dropped, I am sure Razor would certainly demand a lot more of them than Foster and I can definitely see a few of the current squad not really being up for the challenge of someone like Razor or indeed any new coach who might turn this ship around
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@junior said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Steve said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
Gregor Paul was on Irish podcast after the South Africa game to talk about Fosters backing from NZRU.
He opined that maybe a lot of the players backed Foster because if Razor was appointed they would be dropped....
If not dropped, I am sure Razor would certainly demand a lot more of them than Foster and I can definitely see a few of the current squad not really being up for the challenge of someone like Razor or indeed any new coach who might turn this ship around
I think they genuinely like him. But it isn't a social club, it is supposed to be a lean mean point-scoring machine. Which, statistically, it isn't.
The players, coaching team, or quality of the opposition are to blame.
The question is what can be done, and I don't think just dropping and replacing and moving players has proven to be a consistently effective solution.
