Springboks v All Blacks I
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@chimoaus said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
It occurred to me that the Boks loose forwards do play different to ours. They almost appear to play 3 tight 6's if that makes sense. Very little flashy wide stuff but they all work very hard at the breakdown on both attack and defence. So they have 8 players all hitting rucks very hard and rushing hard on D. If I were to ask how many times they make the highlight reels it is pretty low but they are clearly a very effective unit.
They don't have an out an out jackler instead favouring size and bulk. Marx was far and away the most effective for turnovers, it seems a low centre of gravity and strength are keys for turnover penalties now and not necessarily speed to the ruck etc.
That extra size does come at a cost, because when the game does speed up the Boks do fall off more tackles and there are opportunities in behind their line. We saw it last night and the Boks missed more than double the number of tackles that the ABs did and the overall. tackle count wasn’t that different between the teams.
Problem is that we turned the ball over or gave away a penalty far too often. Add in lack of territory and we didn’t capitalise.
So a cost they are willing to make and it paid off well for them last night.
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Not sure if I have the stomach to read the thread today.
TBH, we were just well beaten but despite that I don't think we can single out players for bad games as everyone seemed to be trying but nothing is going our way these days. We're losing the 50/50 calls every time which means we're not applying enough consistent pressure.
One thing I will say is I know we're supposed to be in a Marx love-in at the moment, but, he doesn't support himself for a large % of the turnovers he wins. I'm unsure why he gets so much leeway? I assume if you have a reputation as a turnover winner then the refs just think you're doing legally all the time.
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@mariner4life said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
For us.
Credit to the defence which was hugely improved, and the first half forward pack that actually matched them I thought. Yes they had slight advantages in their strength areas, but we did well elsewhere, and I was impressed we were holding. At half time considering the way the game played out I thought we were probably pretty happy with the score
But the entire backline should not be able to look their forwards in the face. Just absolute shit. Smashed in the kicking game and the catching game. As threatening as teen pop sensation in attack. No where to be seen when support was needed. And big errors at bad times.
BBarrett is playing shit. How the fuck does a dead loss like D Havili not only get picked, but guaranteed 80 minutes? Why can't we put up contestable kicks? Why can't we catch? Just rubbish
Then the bench? Fuck Dane Coles. Error. 2 lost lineouts. Frizzell scores a try but ends up net zero points.
The only time our attack looked threatening was in the first half when the fancy short passes were going nowhere so SBarrett said "fuck it" and just smashed on to the ball. Everyone followed and we suddenly looked dangerous. Oh wait, the 3 inside balls we threw all game worked too.
We can't apply pressure because we can't kick. We can't catch. And we can't keep thr ball because we don't make ground.
100% agree with this. Our backline is built around counter attack rugby - trouble is everyone has caught up and we need to win territory and possession game now, but seem unwilling to implement tactics and choose players to do this. Blues vs Crusaders in the Super Final. Daylight between those teams in terms of tactics. Our kicking game is terrible, but looked so much better when Mounga was on. Not sure what game other posters where watching.
The other main issue is we seem to be fixated on trying to beat the rush defence on the outside. Some hard straight carries trying to find some weak shoulders. Too much lateral movement prior to contact just makes it hard for cleaners. Get the halfback moving with some straight running loose forwards.
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@Tim that was the aerial ping pong one wasnt it? (I only watched a short highlights package)
For me it was one of those tries we would get where luck falls your way, but ultimately comes back to players not trusting those on either side to perform thier role meaning you make a split second decision to go for it yourself.
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@Higgins said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@ACT-Crusader said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@No-Quarter I just watching through the game again and I think you are being a little tricky with the truth. For example in the 20-30 minute period Beaudie received the ball as 1st receiver at either set piece or phase play only 3 times. Plenty of other players getting it at first receiver.
Beaudie is either in the second line or out the back during that period also.
He did some good things but he made some poor errors last night even with good ball. This is not even about pushing Mo’unga or any other player, but Beaudie hasn’t looked in control for a while and it sucks because he’s been a great player to watch. Ever since he was a rookie he’s been a high risk high reward player, but he learned to do that with control and and patience. He hasn’t played with control for a while now.
Dare we say it - ever since he went to Japan.
He's never been a good 10. He's a brilliant fullback (the only really good thing he did today, he did when marking at the back). These days he doesn't even shine very much at Super level.
We won't get any better until he is gone. I know it is horrible for a guy that has such individual talent, but he's not an international 10.
Our backline has never run smoothly with him in charge. Oh, we sometimes have flashes of individual brilliance, but never one that functions as a unit.
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About the aerial battle, the Boks (and NH sides) all have similar tactics to get the ball back. Their players have set roles and have the same positions in each "contest". With the ABs not doing anything like this themselves, it is like taking candy from a child. The lack of cover behind the catcher was obvious last year (the Bridge debacle) and also fruitful for the Boks again last night. Coaching?.....
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17:40 - Marx puts his hands straight on the deck but gets a penalty. PSdT never releases the carrier, and rolls him on the deck. Despite some go forward (Savea, Ioane, ST) in the phases, we look too easy to pick off.
We had good ball and it goes to a static Ta'avao at 2nd receiver. Just way too easy.
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@ACT-Crusader said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@No-Quarter I just watching through the game again and I think you are being a little tricky with the truth. For example in the 20-30 minute period Beaudie received the ball as 1st receiver at either set piece or phase play only 3 times. Plenty of other players getting it at first receiver.
Beaudie is either in the second line or out the back during that period also.
He did some good things but he made some poor errors last night even with good ball. This is not even about pushing Mo’unga or any other player, but Beaudie hasn’t looked in control for a while and it sucks because he’s been a great player to watch. Ever since he was a rookie he’s been a high risk high reward player, but he learned to do that with control and and patience. He hasn’t played with control for a while now.
I did say "he has no idea what to do with it" when talking about Beauden. My comment was more general than this game, it's the way both players have been playing all season. Neither appear to have any idea what the gameplan so just revert to what works at SR level for them.
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@Tim said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
17:40 - Marx puts his hands straight on the deck but gets a penalty. PSdT never releases the carrier, and rolls him on the deck. Despite some go forward (Savea, Ioane, ST) in the phases, we look too easy to pick off.
We had good ball and it goes to a static Ta'avao at 2nd receiver. Just way too easy.
There were a number of no clear release, but I guess a good coach will expect these tactics and coach accordingly, we cannot rely on perfect referee performances every game. After Marx first one the leaders should recognise the ref is not going to penalise this behaviour and therefore start doing it ourselves and make extra sure the ball carrier is not isolated etc.
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@chimoaus and thats where Richie was soo good, he read the game and adapted to the ref so quickly, we have no one right now that seems adept at altering the game plan and playing to the ref....while we have no structure or systems, we seem pretty set in our ways about being busy doing almost nothing at times and not changing from that, until we are forced to and its too late
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So frustrating watching us get some go forward, then not have structure to take advantage. After a few phases it's the same flat and wide structure. Hard to judge players individually as they're often getting flat ball while static, and cleanout players don't have much of a platform. Still not getting much value from tight five on the clean.
Havilli absolutely bricked it and dropped a good opportunity at 32 mins in though.
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My thoughts. Embarrassing really. Frustrating. Painful. Hurtful.
Foster simply has to go. No ifs or buts.
We beat ourselves. The Springboks had a very simple game plan that was very predictable and yet after 100 years of history we still had no game plan to counter. Their plan was, put it high and wait for mistakes. They came. Get Marx over the ball and win the penalty. I don't think the scrum and lineouts were as dominant as expected although we did cough up a lot of early penalties.
To say we don't have the players is rubbish. Yes, we are embarrassingly horrible but sides aren't smashing is on the scoreboard. When we're on and the opposition not so much, we rack up points. But today we gifted SA two tries. Sure we weren't in the game but those two tries, if we were better in the air and not having to chase the game, the score difference is a whole lot different.
I honestly don't think this team will take a lot to turn around. First of all we need better coms in the air and we need protection around the caller. We need better cleaning out of the ruck and we need to take it up the guts a whole lot more. We also need a half back willing to snipe. It's too bloody easy. They know our 9s won't run.
It's time for RM to have a decent crack at 10. Maybe he and DH will gel. Maybe JB should be given a crack at 12. Maybe RTs needs a start. WJ needs to go to 15, CC at 11 and we need probably SR back at 15.
If SC is to stay captain and he needs to get in the refs ear instead of being a little bitch and he needs to rark up his forwards. They need to adapt on the pitch. Game plan ain't working, let's do this.
