All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship
-
@mariner4life said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
His description of Frizzell is fucking laughable. But not surprising given the user name
The Roar is fucking weird. I skimmed the comments and Shannon was getting love in there too.
-
I'm not as down on Frizzell as others. When first selected he was a joke, not even starting for the Highlanders - just a silly coach looking to pull a rabbit out of the hat when we could have had Luatua - hardly Frizzell's fault being selected though.
The last two years his super form has justified AB selection, he's been a real standout in a poor side. Maybe another year of ABs and he starts to stand out at the higher level too. Maybe not too of course, but I think his form is equal or better to others mentioned. -
@MN5 said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@pakman said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
A lot to like about this article: https://www.theroar.com.au/2022/07/25/all-blacks-squad-for-south-africa-series-suggests-foster-is-about-to-make-the-same-mistakes-all-over-again/
That’s a great article if only for the gratuitous and totally unnecessary Led Zep references at the start.
Particularly as they nicked Dazed and Confused from Jake Holmes like Ireland nicked Bundee Aki.
-
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@MN5 said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@pakman said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
A lot to like about this article: https://www.theroar.com.au/2022/07/25/all-blacks-squad-for-south-africa-series-suggests-foster-is-about-to-make-the-same-mistakes-all-over-again/
That’s a great article if only for the gratuitous and totally unnecessary Led Zep references at the start.
Particularly as they nicked Dazed and Confused from Jake Holmes like Ireland nicked Bundee Aki.
They made it way better though, not unlike what Ireland did with Bundee
-
@reprobate said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
I'm not as down on Frizzell as others. When first selected he was a joke, not even starting for the Highlanders - just a silly coach looking to pull a rabbit out of the hat when we could have had Luatua - hardly Frizzell's fault being selected though.
The last two years his super form has justified AB selection, he's been a real standout in a poor side. Maybe another year of ABs and he starts to stand out at the higher level too. Maybe not too of course, but I think his form is equal or better to others mentioned.You know what, I am beginning to find a slight ok with this. I don't think Frizzle adds a dynamic edge to 6 but it looks like all the loosies are struggling unless they just go berserk mode like Ardie normally 60 minutes in, rip shit (forgive my technical language) and tear up the script.
-
The solution is not to pick mediocre players who have been given years of chances and been found wanting.
And that was during a period of our tight five being pretty good. Picking him now, without fixing the tight five is going to expose his flaws even more.
And that’s without getting into his flaws as a human being.
-
@Kirwan said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
The solution is not to pick mediocre players who have been given years of chances and been found wanting.
And that was during a period of our tight five being pretty good. Picking him now, without fixing the tight five is going to expose his flaws even more.
And that’s without getting into his flaws as a human being.
Thing is that we could leave him out due to his personal failings if we had other 6's that ran straight and hard and stayed in the narrow channels.
As for giving players chances to develop, that is actually a problem we have from always looking for the next big thing rather than letting players develop. McCaw took years, even Carter was a 'project' at the start.
Ireland showed the possible benefits of investing in players (our discards).
I'm not saying that all mediocre players should be persisted with, just that sometimes in areas of weakness we need to back one horse rather than keep spreading bets.
An example may be QT in the midfield. He's no finished product by any means but it is possible to see a long term solid player there that we can build around. Bet we will ditch him for RTS. -
@Crucial that's always been the way though, the next big thing is always round the corner.
McCaw hit the field running, it was his leadership moreso that he took time with.
-
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@Crucial that's always been the way though, the next big thing is always round the corner.
McCaw hit the field running, it was his leadership moreso that he took time with.
No way was early McCaw anywhere near prime McCaw and I remember the times when everyone was saying he was done and past it as well.
Whitelock has been past it for the last 5 years on and off.Point is that we admire the shape and job ownership of teams like Ireland but that is made a lot easier when you aren't ditching good players because another one catches your eye. The really really good ones will stand out but we often seem to think 'that guy might do better'.
Class is obvious and needs to be introduced but how many average 6s have we tried by searching. If no single class player is around then stick with the one guy that plays the way of the gameplan and let them develop IMO.
I think that is what they were wanting to do with Frizzel which is why he has been rushed back in as soon as available.
Injuries in these 'unsolved' areas like 6 and midfield really haven't helped but we also seem to get in a tangle.
What happens when ALB comes back. He is the class midfielder. Rieko has put all his chips on 13 and we are currently investing in others at 12. I'm not sure that Rieko back to wing is anything more than a short term thing anyway as he isn't far from hitting the wing cliff that so many others have.RTS, ALB, Ioane, DMac and Jordan could be a world class lethal backline if the rest of the team is firing but I doubt we'll ever see it.
-
@Crucial said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
The solution is not to pick mediocre players who have been given years of chances and been found wanting.
And that was during a period of our tight five being pretty good. Picking him now, without fixing the tight five is going to expose his flaws even more.
And that’s without getting into his flaws as a human being.
Thing is that we could leave him out due to his personal failings if we had other 6's that ran straight and hard and stayed in the narrow channels.
As for giving players chances to develop, that is actually a problem we have from always looking for the next big thing rather than letting players develop. McCaw took years, even Carter was a 'project' at the start.
Ireland showed the possible benefits of investing in players (our discards).
I'm not saying that all mediocre players should be persisted with, just that sometimes in areas of weakness we need to back one horse rather than keep spreading bets.
An example may be QT in the midfield. He's no finished product by any means but it is possible to see a long term solid player there that we can build around. Bet we will ditch him for RTS.Um Akira was running straight and hard, tackling, moving bodies at the ruck in very last game. The amount of good play that people have to ignore to be on the hate bandwagon is hilarious.
As where he gets stationed, there are multiple Foster threads to discuss that.
Frizzel is just not up to test rugby. Same as PGS.
-
@Kirwan said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@Crucial said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
The solution is not to pick mediocre players who have been given years of chances and been found wanting.
And that was during a period of our tight five being pretty good. Picking him now, without fixing the tight five is going to expose his flaws even more.
And that’s without getting into his flaws as a human being.
Thing is that we could leave him out due to his personal failings if we had other 6's that ran straight and hard and stayed in the narrow channels.
As for giving players chances to develop, that is actually a problem we have from always looking for the next big thing rather than letting players develop. McCaw took years, even Carter was a 'project' at the start.
Ireland showed the possible benefits of investing in players (our discards).
I'm not saying that all mediocre players should be persisted with, just that sometimes in areas of weakness we need to back one horse rather than keep spreading bets.
An example may be QT in the midfield. He's no finished product by any means but it is possible to see a long term solid player there that we can build around. Bet we will ditch him for RTS.Um Akira was running straight and hard, tackling, moving bodies at the ruck in very last game. The amount of good play that people have to ignore to be on the hate bandwagon is hilarious.
As where he gets stationed, there are multiple Foster threads to discuss that.
Frizzel is just not up to test rugby. Same as PGS.
Just because people don't see your favourite player in the same shining light you do doesn't make them haters.
Akira was never mentioned but you had to saddle up.I have nothing against Akira, certainly not a hater. Just don't see him fitting what we need at 6. Would be happy to see him at 8 but he would also be a bigger Ardie and probably isn't as accurate.
-
@Crucial said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
No way was early McCaw anywhere near prime McCaw
I never said that, all I said was he hit the field running, meaning he looked the goods very early and went from there....obviously 2007 would have been an easy out for him to bail on the ABs or at the very least, no longer be captain.
On Akira, no way should he be used exclusively wide and loose like they try so often, sure when we get a mis match wide, his size and pace is always a bonus, but the problem is, these are the moments of brilliance our game seems to be relying on, fling it wide to Akira, hope he burns a man, busts another and then Jordan or Reece off his shoulder to score.
Instead we should be using him in closer to hit the defence, he will create opportunities there which will create space for guys like Jordan and Reece anyway...I have always hated the term 'earn the right to go wide' but I reckon the ABs need to look at that right now more than ever.
-
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@Crucial said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
No way was early McCaw anywhere near prime McCaw
I never said that, all I said was he hit the field running, meaning he looked the goods very early and went from there....obviously 2007 would have been an easy out for him to bail on the ABs or at the very least, no longer be captain.
On Akira, no way should he be used exclusively wide and loose like they try so often, sure when we get a mis match wide, his size and pace is always a bonus, but the problem is, these are the moments of brilliance our game seems to be relying on, fling it wide to Akira, hope he burns a man, busts another and then Jordan or Reece off his shoulder to score.
Instead we should be using him in closer to hit the defence, he will create opportunities there which will create space for guys like Jordan and Reece anyway...I have always hated the term 'earn the right to go wide' but I reckon the ABs need to look at that right now more than ever.
According to others he is doing that close in work. Is he or isn't he?
I'm loathe to get into an Akira discussion as that wasn't the point I was making. The point was that the coaches (whether right or wrong) obviously envision a certain type of player at 6.
If I had to try and pinpoint why Akira doesn't seem to fit that mould it would be that he may be viewed as an upper body player (if you get what I mean) rather than a leg drive one. I'm not entirely in tune with that but can see how it appears that a way. When he makes metres it is often through upper body strength. He doesn't often set a driving target for others to latch on to.
Plenty of coaching and tactical fault to throw at that. I'm not blaming the player. I can just kind of see what may be their vision, the one they are not very good at implementing.
-
@Crucial I'm more talking of the gameplan that more often sees him stationed on the wing, as opposed to most often being used in closer where we seem to like to use our props who have almost zero impact, although the 2 passes right/left then one back left/right dont help anyone in the closer channels anyway.
-
Um Akira was running straight and hard, tackling, moving bodies at the ruck in very last game. The amount of good play that people have to ignore to be on the hate bandwagon is hilarious.
I agree that he was good in the third test. I would like to see him running hard with a bit of depth. I think he has a tendency to want to palm off players when I think if he hit the line hard he would more than dent it and surely punish the opposition. But the All Blacks do everything flat which is part of the problem.
-
@broughie said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
But the All Blacks do everything flat which is part of the problem.
and static, so many players take the ball practically standing still, and with the largely disciplined Irish rush defence, they were getting the ball and tacklers almost simultaneously.
I think they need to watch the Irish tests and see how they created space with a bit more depth, plenty of movement and pace.
-
@Crucial said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@Crucial that's always been the way though, the next big thing is always round the corner.
McCaw hit the field running, it was his leadership moreso that he took time with.
No way was early McCaw anywhere near prime McCaw and I remember the times when everyone was saying he was done and past it as well.
Whitelock has been past it for the last 5 years on and off.Point is that we admire the shape and job ownership of teams like Ireland but that is made a lot easier when you aren't ditching good players because another one catches your eye. The really really good ones will stand out but we often seem to think 'that guy might do better'.
Class is obvious and needs to be introduced but how many average 6s have we tried by searching. If no single class player is around then stick with the one guy that plays the way of the gameplan and let them develop IMO.
I think that is what they were wanting to do with Frizzel which is why he has been rushed back in as soon as available.
Injuries in these 'unsolved' areas like 6 and midfield really haven't helped but we also seem to get in a tangle.
What happens when ALB comes back. He is the class midfielder. Rieko has put all his chips on 13 and we are currently investing in others at 12. I'm not sure that Rieko back to wing is anything more than a short term thing anyway as he isn't far from hitting the wing cliff that so many others have.RTS, ALB, Ioane, DMac and Jordan could be a world class lethal backline if the rest of the team is firing but I doubt we'll ever see it.
Hold on, where is the Canterbury mafia here?
Of course early McCaw wasn't the absolute best player in the world McCaw, but McCaw was also MOTM in his first international game. It was clear that he was the future and the was established as the best 7 in NZ within his first season. To even compare that to Frizell is stretching the longest of bows here.
-
McCaw pushed out a very good, experienced, 7. It seemed bizarre at the time, but went on to be the right decision.
Frizzell can't even get a nailed in spot in a side searching for the right 6.
