All Blacks 2022
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@chimoaus said in All Blacks 2022:
Honest question, what do we want from the AB's in 2022/23? How do they evolve to match the strengths of the NH teams and SA
Some shifts to both the attacking and defensive shape would help a lot.
More picking and going in attack, more angled runners, more variety. Watching the standard pod attack where 9 biffs it out to a forward 10 metres from the ruck time and time again makes me want to rip my hair out.
In defense be far less passive - let's employ the rush defence ourselves - let's counter ruck - this passive 'soak' defence sucks.
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@No-Quarter Totally agree, we have the talent, we just need to earn the right to unleash it.
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Graham Henry's principles still hold strong
Win your set piece
Get over the gain line on first phaseEverything builds off that
Strong set pieces.
Win collisions on both sides of the ball
Bodies in motion
Make metres in the ruck.
Make teams fear our forwards again
Create opportunities for.our strike weapons, don't hand them the ball and wait for shit to happenIf we do this we'll win heaps, but in all honesty the results don't matter if I can see obvious improvements in the key areas
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@Bones said in All Blacks 2022:
@NZbloke said in All Blacks 2022:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2022:
@NZbloke said in All Blacks 2022:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2022:
@NZbloke said in All Blacks 2022:
Papallii has never had the pace to be a link player at 7
🤣
Are you on drugs ? ...do you even realize a 7 should be a fetcher, an openside has to have the pace to link up with the backs, especially with the speed the ABs play, that isn't Papalii, he's too slow for the position & weighs about 115kg, which is why he's better suited to 6 or 8.
Hahaha, good one Murray Dickhead.... yeah I've never played rugby and I'm on an array of drugs - yet my insight into rugby, players and coaching is still light years beyond your basic, clichéd dross. That must be embarrassing.
Papalii is quicker than Cane, sharpen up.
You're a clown, as usual logic goes straight out the window with you - Cane is obviously the faster of the two, also he's 103kg, Whereas Papalii is 113kg.
Ohhhh shit, yeah bang goes my logic eh... brought down by the amazing logic of "this one's heavier so it must be slower"! 🤣
That word in bold will make it easy for you to show us the obvious examples. Chop chop Muzza.
If DP cut off one leg he'd be faster than Cane.
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2022:
@chimoaus said in All Blacks 2022:
Honest question, what do we want from the AB's in 2022/23? How do they evolve to match the strengths of the NH teams and SA
Some shifts to both the attacking and defensive shape would help a lot.
More picking and going in attack, more angled runners, more variety. Watching the standard pod attack where 9 biffs it out to a forward 10 metres from the ruck time and time again makes me want to rip my hair out.
In defense be far less passive - let's employ the rush defence ourselves - let's counter ruck - this passive 'soak' defence sucks.
If the last year taught us anything, it's that our attack looks better when our point of attack is actually closer to the ruck, rather than in the wider channels (and this is what we did in the first Lions test, and for much of the second, in 2017). This is what I would like to see more of in 2022 - an ability to change / vary the point of attack
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@NZbloke said in All Blacks 2022:
@Crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2022:
@Crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
After around a quarter of a century on the Fern I don't think I've ever seem so many gems of wisdom from one poster.
I must be on your ignore list!
Your abilities are no match for the power of the daft side,
I'll give you a debate on rugby & we will soon see who ends up on the daft side... here's a hint, it won't be me.
If Donald Trump was a ferner he’d be you
Depending on how much freak athleticism runs in the family can we assume Reiko Ioane is really fast or is it more a case of the sub 100kg backs who can’t catch him being really slow ?
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@chimoaus said in All Blacks 2022:
Honest question, what do we want from the AB's in 2022/23? How do they evolve to match the strengths of the NH teams and SA. How do we combat the rush defence, low error rates and suffocating play that is so effective against us.
I simply cannot see how the Foster led 2019-2021 ABs can magically change without some fundamental changes.
I would love to hear from the strategists on the Fern of what gameplan and players can help us climb back to the top.
You’ll have more luck finding the yeti or unicorn before you find one of those on here…
My 2 cents:
- winning the Irish series
- development of our loose forward combination
- our midfielders getting through the test season without injury
- seeing Sami, S. Barrett, Sotutu, A. Ioane, Reece, Jordan all take that next step up in their test careers.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2022:
Graham Henry's principles still hold strong
Win your set piece
Get over the gain line on first phaseEverything builds off that
Strong set pieces.
Win collisions on both sides of the ball
Bodies in motion
Make metres in the ruck.
Make teams fear our forwards again
Create opportunities for.our strike weapons, don't hand them the ball and wait for shit to happenIf we do this we'll win heaps, but in all honesty the results don't matter if I can see obvious improvements in the key areas
This!
I'd like more plays around the ruck with bodies in motion on both sides of the ball carrier, involving big runners (e.g., Clarke, Fainga'anuku) on the inside ball, and other big athletic bodies (such as Akira, PGS) on the edge outside.
If we can get enough big bodies carrying, we won't need props to do it, we can have a core role/clean job for the fatties, which is about all they are good for.
It won't happen, but I also want to see Sotutu out there playing as a receiver and distributor as he does for the Blues.
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2022:
@chimoaus said in All Blacks 2022:
Honest question, what do we want from the AB's in 2022/23? How do they evolve to match the strengths of the NH teams and SA. How do we combat the rush defence, low error rates and suffocating play that is so effective against us.
I simply cannot see how the Foster led 2019-2021 ABs can magically change without some fundamental changes.
I would love to hear from the strategists on the Fern of what gameplan and players can help us climb back to the top.
You’ll have more luck finding the yeti or unicorn before you find one of those on here…
My 2 cents:
- winning the Irish series
- development of our loose forward combination
- our midfielders getting through the test season without injury
- seeing Sami, S. Barrett, Sotutu, A. Ioane, Reece, Jordan all take that next step up in their test careers.
All good points.
I'd love to see at least one of the two new locks show the potential to make the step up to be a trusted starter by the end of the season. -
The best way I can judge how good an All Black Squad is to look back at the 2015 team that won the RWC ..in the starting XV , you could argue that every player was top 1-4 in the world even Julian Savea you could say was top one or 2 wingers in the world ..
and not to mention ,we the had best bench in the world
BB and Charlie Famauina just to name a couple
When I look over this 2022 squad , the props are underwhelming, the 2 senior locks have fallen out of the top 3 , Aaron Smith is still classy , but but you would have to say number 3-4 , the midfield is a muddle .All things considered , What has Foster been doing in the last 2 seasons ..?
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@NZbloke said in All Blacks 2022:
You're the one that's a troll to think a bloke that weighs 113kg is quicker than one that weighs 103kg...
That Lomu bloke at 120kg must have been a bit shit at getting around the paddock then...
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2022:
I'd like to see lord of vaai start with one of the older guys, not just off the bench
I'd like to think we'll see a fair bit of that this year. In fact, I can't see any other option.
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@NZbloke said in All Blacks 2022:
@Crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2022:
@Crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
After around a quarter of a century on the Fern I don't think I've ever seem so many gems of wisdom from one poster.
I must be on your ignore list!
Your abilities are no match for the power of the daft side,
I'll give you a debate on rugby & we will soon see who ends up on the daft side... here's a hint, it won't be me.
I’ll check my diary and see when I can make it to the old folks home. Is there a good time of day that doesn’t clash with your favourite talkback shows?
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@Steven-Harris said in All Blacks 2022:
The best way I can judge how good an All Black Squad is to look back at the 2015 team that won the RWC ..in the starting XV , you could argue that every player was top 1-4 in the world even Julian Savea you could say was top one or 2 wingers in the world ..
and not to mention ,we the had best bench in the world
BB and Charlie Famauina just to name a couple
When I look over this 2022 squad , the props are underwhelming, the 2 senior locks have fallen out of the top 3 , Aaron Smith is still classy , but but you would have to say number 3-4 , the midfield is a muddle .All things considered , What has Foster been doing in the last 2 seasons ..?
Do you think NZ has even got players to compare with 2015 at moment? I actually honestly think it's time to wake up and smell the roses, NZ has been through a golden era of players, with some all time greats. At moment they are just not here.
I think instead of 8-0 or so players that would make world 23 as in 2011-2015 we would perhaps have 2-3 now, I not sure why we think we will always have the players, and even if I pretty iffy about Foster as a coach, noone is going to turn them into World class players.. Perhaps we need to be wondering why our skills seemed to of dropped at super level? -
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2022:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2022:
Take Sam Cane. He was 101kg when he made his test début as a 20-year-old in June 2012. He's now 109kg - almost 10 per heavier in five years
fuck, imagine how slow he must have got
Mate, you're on fuckin' fire tonight - cracking me up.
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@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2022:
@Steven-Harris said in All Blacks 2022:
The best way I can judge how good an All Black Squad is to look back at the 2015 team that won the RWC ..in the starting XV , you could argue that every player was top 1-4 in the world even Julian Savea you could say was top one or 2 wingers in the world ..
and not to mention ,we the had best bench in the world
BB and Charlie Famauina just to name a couple
When I look over this 2022 squad , the props are underwhelming, the 2 senior locks have fallen out of the top 3 , Aaron Smith is still classy , but but you would have to say number 3-4 , the midfield is a muddle .All things considered , What has Foster been doing in the last 2 seasons ..?
Do you think NZ has even got players to compare with 2015 at moment? I actually honestly think it's time to wake up and smell the roses, NZ has been through a golden era of players, with some all time greats. At moment they are just not here.
I think instead of 8-0 or so players that would make world 23 as in 2011-2015 we would perhaps have 2-3 now, I not sure why we think we will always have the players, and even if I pretty iffy about Foster as a coach, noone is going to turn them into World class players.. Perhaps we need to be wondering why our skills seemed to of dropped at super level?Yup. Few AB teams will stand up to the 2015 RWC team
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@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2022:
@Steven-Harris said in All Blacks 2022:
The best way I can judge how good an All Black Squad is to look back at the 2015 team that won the RWC ..in the starting XV , you could argue that every player was top 1-4 in the world even Julian Savea you could say was top one or 2 wingers in the world ..
and not to mention ,we the had best bench in the world
BB and Charlie Famauina just to name a couple
When I look over this 2022 squad , the props are underwhelming, the 2 senior locks have fallen out of the top 3 , Aaron Smith is still classy , but but you would have to say number 3-4 , the midfield is a muddle .All things considered , What has Foster been doing in the last 2 seasons ..?
Do you think NZ has even got players to compare with 2015 at moment? I actually honestly think it's time to wake up and smell the roses, NZ has been through a golden era of players, with some all time greats. At moment they are just not here.
I think instead of 8-0 or so players that would make world 23 as in 2011-2015 we would perhaps have 2-3 now, I not sure why we think we will always have the players, and even if I pretty iffy about Foster as a coach, noone is going to turn them into World class players.. Perhaps we need to be wondering why our skills seemed to of dropped at super level?I might cut and paste this and put it in the cricket thread
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I think it doesn’t matter what sport you are playing, you try to do what makes your opponent uncomfortable.
I think that means taking them on and hopefully beating them upfront or like has been mentioned at least gaining parity .
They already know about our attacking threats, but if we get bullied again in the physical areas in the big games , we are becoming Australia , they have got us where they want us .
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@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2022:
@Steven-Harris said in All Blacks 2022:
The best way I can judge how good an All Black Squad is to look back at the 2015 team that won the RWC ..in the starting XV , you could argue that every player was top 1-4 in the world even Julian Savea you could say was top one or 2 wingers in the world ..
and not to mention ,we the had best bench in the world
BB and Charlie Famauina just to name a couple
When I look over this 2022 squad , the props are underwhelming, the 2 senior locks have fallen out of the top 3 , Aaron Smith is still classy , but but you would have to say number 3-4 , the midfield is a muddle .All things considered , What has Foster been doing in the last 2 seasons ..?
Do you think NZ has even got players to compare with 2015 at moment? I actually honestly think it's time to wake up and smell the roses, NZ has been through a golden era of players, with some all time greats. At moment they are just not here.
I think instead of 8-0 or so players that would make world 23 as in 2011-2015 we would perhaps have 2-3 now, I not sure why we think we will always have the players, and even if I pretty iffy about Foster as a coach, noone is going to turn them into World class players.. Perhaps we need to be wondering why our skills seemed to of dropped at super level?This.
Coaches (and I’m not making excuses here, just stating something) can only innovate as far as the levels of the players allow. Yes it is their job to improve those skills as well but it still comes down to the quality of the cattle. Mick Byrne was a big loss to our system. He was around so long that he basically owned the micro skills space and we didn’t have a ready replacement of similar quality.
That said I actually think we are on the up again with some very talented youngsters around. Now we need to add smarts and experience to that mix.
It may not happen in time for next year and you can’t deny the impact of Covid on our schedules and planning.
I remain positive in that we will always be a punchers chance and that some of the complacency should have well and truly gone.
