All Blacks depth 2022 & 2023
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@tim said in All Blacks depth 2022 & 2023:
Hope Tupou Vaai develops very fast, because we are out of options.
Yeah I just don't get this eh, maybe he's busy but he just seems really ineffective... and small. I just feel like there's almost half a dozen locks that could easily replace him without anyone noticing a drop in standard - MSR, Dickson, Goodhue, saders locks, etc.
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@arhs said in All Blacks depth 2022 & 2023:
Surprised that Selby Rickit is not well regarded on the fern. He has a real presence in my view and delivers consistently. But I don't think Retallick has been playing as badly as suggested either.
I can't speak for others, but I recognize his ability, he could be an All Black if gets consistent game time and keeps developing.
However, I'm still a bit uncomfortable about his past. Personally speaking, he came across as a real thug from that assault and I'm not a big fan of elevating people like that to the Abs.
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@bones said in All Blacks depth 2022 & 2023:
@tim said in All Blacks depth 2022 & 2023:
Hope Tupou Vaai develops very fast, because we are out of options.
Yeah I just don't get this eh, maybe he's busy but he just seems really ineffective... and small. I just feel like there's almost half a dozen locks that could easily replace him without anyone noticing a drop in standard - MSR, Dickson, Goodhue, saders locks, etc.
Not so sure that many.
MSR a definite option. But he's got some serious making up to do in the character test category. Would like to see him doing some serious arse kissing to his victim(s) and in general.
Think physically he's well up to test footy.
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@arhs said in All Blacks depth 2022 & 2023:
Surprised that Selby Rickit is not well regarded on the fern. He has a real presence in my view and delivers consistently. But I don't think Retallick has been playing as badly as suggested either.
Character.
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@gt12 said in All Blacks depth 2022 & 2023:
@arhs said in All Blacks depth 2022 & 2023:
Surprised that Selby Rickit is not well regarded on the fern. He has a real presence in my view and delivers consistently. But I don't think Retallick has been playing as badly as suggested either.
I can't speak for others, but I recognize his ability, he could be an All Black if gets consistent game time and keeps developing.
However, I'm still a bit uncomfortable about his past. Personally speaking, he came across as a real thug from that assault and I'm not a big fan of elevating people like that to the Abs.
This
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@bones said in All Blacks depth 2022 & 2023:
@booboo said in All Blacks depth 2022 & 2023:
Not so sure that many.
I just named that many.
You named 3 which isn't 6. Only one of which I agree with.
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@booboo said in All Blacks depth 2022 & 2023:
@bones said in All Blacks depth 2022 & 2023:
@booboo said in All Blacks depth 2022 & 2023:
Not so sure that many.
I just named that many.
You named 3 which isn't 6. Only one of which I agree with.
Saders locks = 2 or more, by my count "almost half a dozen" would probably be 5. What does Vaai bring to the table that the others don't?
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@bones said in All Blacks depth 2022 & 2023:
@booboo said in All Blacks depth 2022 & 2023:
@bones said in All Blacks depth 2022 & 2023:
@booboo said in All Blacks depth 2022 & 2023:
Not so sure that many.
I just named that many.
You named 3 which isn't 6. Only one of which I agree with.
Saders locks = 2 or more. What does Vaai bring to the table that the others don't?
Not to exactly answer your question, but I think at least one (or more) of those Saders locks (plus PPP) were injured and without BBBR the Chiefs makeshift locks did a reasonable job of securing ball and shifting bodies, which is how he got his chance.
At this point, even though a player such as Strange or Dunshea might actually be better, we hardly get to see them and they get few opportunities to develop as when it counts it will be Whitelock and Barrett, so I'm happy that they went with a player who was seeing significant gametime.
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@bones said in All Blacks depth 2022 & 2023:
@gt12 oh yeah I definitely see why he was selected initially, was worth a punt. I just don't see what he offers now that even Frizzel couldn't offer?
He's busy, I'll give him that, but he's just such a "lite" player.
I dunno, maybe that's a fair assessment of where he is right now, because it sounds like many of our players to me...
I thought he did quite well on the weekend (edit, especially given it was his first Super game back), he played 57 minutes (compared to Lord's 64 and BBBR's 80) and managed 5 passes, 6 runs, 14 metres, which puts him behind Lord but miles ahead of BBBR, with 8 tackles, none misses (BBR 11,1 and Lord 9,0). So, I think all in all he's contributing. Whether he's significantly better than MSK or another player such as Goodhue will be up to them to show form over the season.
I'm not convinced of him, but he's not even 23 yet, so I'm interested to see how things shake out this year.
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@mn5 said in All Blacks depth 2022 & 2023:
@bones said in All Blacks depth 2022 & 2023:
@gt12 any stats on Dickson! I've been quite impressed with his aggression since bulking up.
Roid Rage
Works for the Russians, he can just play without the fern on his AB jersey
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@bones said in All Blacks depth 2022 & 2023:
@gt12 any stats on Dickson! I've been quite impressed with his aggression since bulking up.
He led the team in tackles against the Chiefs (16,1) with 4 passes, 4 runs, 5 metres. Sadly they don't have data for lineouts. He had similar invovlements against the Saders and again led the team for tackles (19,2). Against the Canes, he was probably a bit more involved (7 passes, 7 runs, 17 metres, 2 defenders beaten) but was less effective on the other side (7 made, 2 missed).
One work on might be discipline/accuracy - he had 1 penalty against the Chiefs, and 2 against the Saders, plus at least one turnover in every game I think.
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@tim said in All Blacks depth 2022 & 2023:
So, when was the last time Retallick had a decent game for the All Blacks?
It wasn't last year, and it sure as hell wasn't in 2019.
Four fucking years ago he had a good game. Better spend all the money on his contract.
There has never been a player who has had an easier ride. And has produced nothing.
He is only 30 years old so let's hope he can regain some form for the coming winter. I am more worried by the props. None of the eight who toured in November would be starters for France, Ireland, England, Scotland and maybe Wales if they were eligible for these countries. They are just not good enough. The young props making their grade in the SRP (Norris, Williams, Ma'u), who are potential FABs, are still too green.
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@nzzp said in All Blacks depth 2022 & 2023:
@chris the heart of the problem is that out tight 5 is consistently outplayed by decent opponents. So we get reamed, the backs get ball under pressure. Everything comes back to that.
Our cattle either aren't up to it, too old, or not being coached and played to a style that suits they're strengths
I would say that the backs also compound the pressure they are under and / or fail to make proper use of what decent ball they get through their own poor skills and - more crucially - decision-making. That our inside backs (bar A Smith) can't seem to play rugby without an armchair ride is just as a big a concern as the forwards' inability to provide said armchair ride.
