Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022
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@chris-b said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@kiwibloke said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
Not a lot of logic to some of those rankings - there's no doubt though that Sobers is the best all-rounder ever, not only was he a great batsman, he was also a quality pace bowler & a quality wrist spinner, making him worth his weight in gold on any type of wicket.
I guess it's measuring their peak performance - after a golden run of form with bat and ball. Hence early-Botham, comes in second, because he really was sensational in his early days. So that list rewards a high peak rather than long run consistency.
Interesting that you can throw a blanket over people from about Imran down to Sir Paddles, though - all scored 480-520. Not a lot to choose between them.
I believe it is measuring "peak" all rounder ranking - which is some formula based on the previous 2-3 years performance (weighting more recent efforts).
The formula weights efforts by teams I think, so 1/90 taking the wicket of McGrath in 1994 is better than 1/90 taking the wicket of Martin Crowe.
There is also a huge difference between pre 1990 where all rounders hunted statistics and now where bowlers would not be wasted on the tail.
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@kiwibloke said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@chris-b said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@kiwibloke said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
Not a lot of logic to some of those rankings - there's no doubt though that Sobers is the best all-rounder ever, not only was he a great batsman, he was also a quality pace bowler & a quality wrist spinner, making him worth his weight in gold on any type of wicket.
I guess it's measuring their peak performance - after a golden run of form with bat and ball. Hence early-Botham, comes in second, because he really was sensational in his early days. So that list rewards a high peak rather than long run consistency.
Interesting that you can throw a blanket over people from about Imran down to Sir Paddles, though - all scored 480-520. Not a lot to choose between them.
Can understand how a player can make a big difference in winning a test match for his side etc... reckon though to find out how really good they are should be rated by their overall career.
It's the Bond example. How much should a super short career count against him? What if someone un-retires?
It's all arbitrary, but I'd look for the peak 3 to 4 years I reckon
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@mn5 said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@kiwibloke said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@kiwibloke said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@kiwibloke said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@donsteppa said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
Bangladesh win the toss and bowl.
Mitchell in for Ravindra. Which, on recent form, makes the middle order seem a bit stronger.
Acid is on the top six to make starts and build on them. And a much improved performance with the ball is needed from Southee and Jamieson.
To me they’re similar in that they’re competent batsmen but next to nothing bowlers at this level. Judging by their first class stats they both average about a wicket or so per match. No where near good enough.
Calling either of them true All rounders is a massive stretch.
Still rate Mitchell a better bowling option than Ravindra on any deck at this stage & Mitchell has also scored a couple of test hundreds too, which also makes our batting stronger.
I suppose Mitch could become that Styris/Astle/McMillan type. Not world class as a batsman but a useful change bowler when needed as all those three were. They did play in an era where we expected less though.
Yeah, Mitchell isn't going to be a world class all-rounder... we're still looking for one, we've had plenty of top all-rounders before, so we should be able to find another one in the near future.
Our batting was very tentative in the first test... good to see that their movements are much more positive, moving the feet well, getting in line with the ball & leaving when needed.
It's ridiculous when batsmen leave the ball & get cleaned bowled or LBW... if you feel the ball is threatening your stumps get in line with it & play with soft hands so there's not much chance of the ball carrying to the keeper or slips.
I don’t reckon. They’re pretty scarce at the best of times and when Mitchell Starc is rated fifth best in the world you know that there’s a dearth of talent all over the world. Another Cairns, Vettori or especially Paddles would be great but don’t hold your breath.
India are just being greedy with Jadeja and Ashwin playing at the same time.
You're probably right - just such a big asset to have a top all-rounder in your side... yeah, don't see Starc as much of an all-rounder, he's basically a bloody slogger with the bat.
Those two calls by the umpire were shockers... the Banglas must have given him a gold watch
All rounder is a term that’s thrown round far too liberally. I think there’s only Holder, Al Hasan, Jadeja, Ashwin and Stokes playing now that deserve the label….and whilst he had his critics CDGH fashioned a bloody decent career for us too.
Paddles himself admitted he was really only “just” an all rounder given his record with the bat.
I believe CdGH averaged around 40 with the bat and 30 with the ball when Kane was captain, so you can see why the loved him and played him in the final.
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@no-quarter said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@kiwibloke said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@kiwibloke said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@kiwibloke said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@donsteppa said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
Bangladesh win the toss and bowl.
Mitchell in for Ravindra. Which, on recent form, makes the middle order seem a bit stronger.
Acid is on the top six to make starts and build on them. And a much improved performance with the ball is needed from Southee and Jamieson.
To me they’re similar in that they’re competent batsmen but next to nothing bowlers at this level. Judging by their first class stats they both average about a wicket or so per match. No where near good enough.
Calling either of them true All rounders is a massive stretch.
Still rate Mitchell a better bowling option than Ravindra on any deck at this stage & Mitchell has also scored a couple of test hundreds too, which also makes our batting stronger.
I suppose Mitch could become that Styris/Astle/McMillan type. Not world class as a batsman but a useful change bowler when needed as all those three were. They did play in an era where we expected less though.
Yeah, Mitchell isn't going to be a world class all-rounder... we're still looking for one, we've had plenty of top all-rounders before, so we should be able to find another one in the near future.
Our batting was very tentative in the first test... good to see that their movements are much more positive, moving the feet well, getting in line with the ball & leaving when needed.
It's ridiculous when batsmen leave the ball & get cleaned bowled or LBW... if you feel the ball is threatening your stumps get in line with it & play with soft hands so there's not much chance of the ball carrying to the keeper or slips.
I don’t reckon. They’re pretty scarce at the best of times and when Mitchell Starc is rated fifth best in the world you know that there’s a dearth of talent all over the world. Another Cairns, Vettori or especially Paddles would be great but don’t hold your breath.
India are just being greedy with Jadeja and Ashwin playing at the same time.
You're probably right - just such a big asset to have a top all-rounder in your side... yeah, don't see Starc as much of an all-rounder, he's basically a bloody slogger with the bat.
Those two calls by the umpire were shockers... the Banglas must have given him a gold watch
All rounder is a term that’s thrown round far too liberally. I think there’s only Holder, Al Hasan, Jadeja, Ashwin and Stokes playing now that deserve the label….and whilst he had his critics CDGH fashioned a bloody decent career for us too.
Paddles himself admitted he was really only “just” an all rounder given his record with the bat.
I believe CdGH averaged around 40 with the bat and 30 with the ball when Kane was captain, so you can see why the loved him and played him in the final.
I get the impression Colin was more successful at home than away, but I don't have the figures to prove or disprove that. His form did drop off quite badly near the end
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Well we lost the toss (yet afuckingain) but we've certainly responded to the challenge this time around. We are miles ahead of the game, and should be aiming to do all of our batting today and tomorrow, then give ourselves 3 days to bowl them out twice.
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@no-quarter said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
Well we lost the toss (yet afuckingain) but we've certainly responded to the challenge this time around. We are miles ahead of the game, and should be aiming to do all of our batting today and tomorrow, then give ourselves 3 days to bowl them out twice.
I reckon that’s the plan.
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@canefan said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@chris said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
Good 50 from Conway hopefully he goes on to 100 as well.
Defiantly a class Act Conway.His only real misstep in the BC was breaking his hand in the T20 semi
Yeah he been an awesome pick up for Us.
A couple of other SA around the domestic scene who are potential BC,s as well,
Personally I love watching Conway bat he is class. -
@chris said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@canefan said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@chris said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
Good 50 from Conway hopefully he goes on to 100 as well.
Defiantly a class Act Conway.His only real misstep in the BC was breaking his hand in the T20 semi
Yeah he been an awesome pick up for Us.
A couple of other SA around the domestic scene who are potential BC,s as well,
Personally I love watching Conway bat he is class.We loves Wags. Now we loves Conway too
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@no-quarter said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
Well we lost the toss (yet afuckingain) but we've certainly responded to the challenge this time around. We are miles ahead of the game, and should be aiming to do all of our batting today and tomorrow, then give ourselves 3 days to bowl them out twice.
There is rain forecast for the final two days so we may need to accelerate even more tomorrow to make sure the rain doesn't play a factor. Could be an exciting day tomorrow if that is in fact the plan.
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@canefan said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@chris said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@canefan said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@chris said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
Good 50 from Conway hopefully he goes on to 100 as well.
Defiantly a class Act Conway.His only real misstep in the BC was breaking his hand in the T20 semi
Yeah he been an awesome pick up for Us.
A couple of other SA around the domestic scene who are potential BC,s as well,
Personally I love watching Conway bat he is class.We loves Wags. Now we loves Conway too
I have from day one.
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Christ on a bike Black Caps where the fuck was this shit in the first test ?
Wonderful stuff from all involved. Nice return from Latham after a shit first test and the other two just continue doing the biz at test level. Normal service has resumed, still furious it was disrupted like it was though, they should not have beaten us.
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@chris I'm gonna sound unpopular and I don't even mind Latham, he's a decent opening bat but I'm not gonna lie, he's a minnow basher.
Give me Wright and Rigor any day.
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@african-monkey said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@chris I'm gonna sound unpopular and I don't even mind Latham, he's a decent opening bat but I'm not gonna lie, he's a minnow basher.
Give me Wright and Rigor any day.
He still has time to rack up hundies vs India and Oz.
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@african-monkey said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@chris I'm gonna sound unpopular and I don't even mind Latham, he's a decent opening bat but I'm not gonna lie, he's a minnow basher.
Give me Wright and Rigor any day.
He has 2 test hundreds v Pakistan , 1 v England when they were playing well.
He is still young so if he can get them against India and Australia maybe SA soon too.Still have to get them no matter who you play.
