Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022
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@kiwibloke said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@donsteppa said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
Bangladesh win the toss and bowl.
Mitchell in for Ravindra. Which, on recent form, makes the middle order seem a bit stronger.
Acid is on the top six to make starts and build on them. And a much improved performance with the ball is needed from Southee and Jamieson.
To me they’re similar in that they’re competent batsmen but next to nothing bowlers at this level. Judging by their first class stats they both average about a wicket or so per match. No where near good enough.
Calling either of them true All rounders is a massive stretch.
Still rate Mitchell a better bowling option than Ravindra on any deck at this stage & Mitchell has also scored a couple of test hundreds too, which also makes our batting stronger.
I like this change for this pitch, didn’t you say you would always prefer to have a spinner in your team? Anyway happy with his selection.
Surely last chance saloon for Blundel
I’m guessing we lost yet another toss?
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@nzzp said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@booboo said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
Too high.
Ump having mare
Both looked poor decisions in real time
First was super obvious. Thought I had posted it was a terrible initial decision but must have stuff up my posting.
Two bad calls in three balls.
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@damo said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@booboo said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
That's closer
No it wasn't.
Better line
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@mn5 said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@damo said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@hydro11 said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@nzzp said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@nzzp said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@donsteppa said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
In my post match ramblings, my fried-from-the-Bay Oval-sun brain vaguely tried to make sense of the recent apparent change in Jamieson's bowling, and perhaps wider fortunes. His bowling average remains very impressive, but it looked like something was not quite right either
Sitting side-on on the evening of Day Three, on two to three occasions I thought there was some sort of (relative!) hesitancy/lack of fluency mid-action for Jamieson.
But as always with these things... I wondered if I was imagining it, or that 'thing' may have always been there when he was taking lots of wickets for not many. Cricket being one of those games where you can find almost anything if you start looking for it...
So it was interesting to read something well beyond my analytical skills from Chris Cairns behind the Herald paywall today: Chris Cairns column: The Black Caps issues that need addressing. The whole column is worth a read if you have access, but this particularly caught my eye:
... Trent Boult and Neil Wagner appeared their normal selves, but Tim Southee and Kyle Jamieson seemed off the mark.
...
... In contrast, Jamieson is early into his test career and has been outstanding to date. A lack of wickets against Bangladesh – two for 90 - will be unfamiliar territory. I felt his timing was out at the point of delivery and this caused him to push the ball, especially to the left-handers. He also seemed to overstride in his run-up. That meant he did not hold his left side upright long enough in the delivery stride to maximise the tremendous height he possesses when powering over his front leg. This is a minor thing to tweak and his rhythm could quickly return at Hagley Oval. ...Hopefully a quick fix for Hagley Oval then!
How good is it seeing Cairnsy writing articles compared to how he was a few months back ?
I'm cautious of someone who's been allegedly involved with match fixing being given a platform like that.
Doesn’t take away from the fact he was one of our best players and knows the game intimately.
I know. But his involvement appears super duper dodgy.
I contrast this with cancel culture, and I guess it's a matter of degree. There are very few people I'm cautious of continuing in their professions. Tony Veitch is one, Cairns is another. But my list is pretty short.
Let's be clear. The involvement of Cairns isn't dodgy. Brendon McCullum testified under oath that Cairns approached him about match fixing. Either McCullum lied under oath or Cairns is a match fixer.
Cairns should have no place in cricket.
You should add Joseph Parker to your list. No idea how a drug dealer keeps getting so much positive publicity in the media.
I agree with this. I thought his career would be effectively over in New Zealand. Nobody seems to care though and he is brought on the radio for fluff interviews.
I thought Cairns was basically ignored now aside from his recent medical issues. I am a bit surprised he is writing articles.
Parker is a choirboy compared to any number of boxers who’ve done far, far worse and still competed. If anything his recent antics have helped his reputation. Ridiculous comparison.
He allegedly laundered money for people importing commercial quantities of meth into NZ.
I don't care that much about what other boxers have and haven't done - I am surprised that in NZ he seems to have been given a pass.
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@bayimports said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@kiwibloke said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@donsteppa said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
Bangladesh win the toss and bowl.
Mitchell in for Ravindra. Which, on recent form, makes the middle order seem a bit stronger.
Acid is on the top six to make starts and build on them. And a much improved performance with the ball is needed from Southee and Jamieson.
To me they’re similar in that they’re competent batsmen but next to nothing bowlers at this level. Judging by their first class stats they both average about a wicket or so per match. No where near good enough.
Calling either of them true All rounders is a massive stretch.
Still rate Mitchell a better bowling option than Ravindra on any deck at this stage & Mitchell has also scored a couple of test hundreds too, which also makes our batting stronger.
I like this change for this pitch, didn’t you say you would always prefer to have a spinner in your team? Anyway happy with his selection.
Surely last chance saloon for Blundel
I’m guessing we lost yet another toss?
Who is next cab off the rank?
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@mn5 said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@kiwibloke said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@kiwibloke said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@donsteppa said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
Bangladesh win the toss and bowl.
Mitchell in for Ravindra. Which, on recent form, makes the middle order seem a bit stronger.
Acid is on the top six to make starts and build on them. And a much improved performance with the ball is needed from Southee and Jamieson.
To me they’re similar in that they’re competent batsmen but next to nothing bowlers at this level. Judging by their first class stats they both average about a wicket or so per match. No where near good enough.
Calling either of them true All rounders is a massive stretch.
Still rate Mitchell a better bowling option than Ravindra on any deck at this stage & Mitchell has also scored a couple of test hundreds too, which also makes our batting stronger.
I suppose Mitch could become that Styris/Astle/McMillan type. Not world class as a batsman but a useful change bowler when needed as all those three were. They did play in an era where we expected less though.
Yeah, Mitchell isn't going to be a world class all-rounder... we're still looking for one, we've had plenty of top all-rounders before, so we should be able to find another one in the near future.
Our batting was very tentative in the first test... good to see that their movements are much more positive, moving the feet well, getting in line with the ball & leaving when needed.
It's ridiculous when batsmen leave the ball & get cleaned bowled or LBW... if you feel the ball is threatening your stumps get in line with it & play with soft hands so there's not much chance of the ball carrying to the keeper or slips.
I don’t reckon. They’re pretty scarce at the best of times and when Mitchell Starc is rated fifth best in the world you know that there’s a dearth of talent all over the world. Another Cairns, Vettori or especially Paddles would be great but don’t hold your breath.
India are just being greedy with Jadeja and Ashwin playing at the same time.
You're probably right - just such a big asset to have a top all-rounder in your side... yeah, don't see Starc as much of an all-rounder, he's basically a bloody slogger with the bat.
Those two calls by the umpire were shockers... the Banglas must have given him a gold watch
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@kiwibloke said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@kiwibloke said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@kiwibloke said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@donsteppa said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
Bangladesh win the toss and bowl.
Mitchell in for Ravindra. Which, on recent form, makes the middle order seem a bit stronger.
Acid is on the top six to make starts and build on them. And a much improved performance with the ball is needed from Southee and Jamieson.
To me they’re similar in that they’re competent batsmen but next to nothing bowlers at this level. Judging by their first class stats they both average about a wicket or so per match. No where near good enough.
Calling either of them true All rounders is a massive stretch.
Still rate Mitchell a better bowling option than Ravindra on any deck at this stage & Mitchell has also scored a couple of test hundreds too, which also makes our batting stronger.
I suppose Mitch could become that Styris/Astle/McMillan type. Not world class as a batsman but a useful change bowler when needed as all those three were. They did play in an era where we expected less though.
Yeah, Mitchell isn't going to be a world class all-rounder... we're still looking for one, we've had plenty of top all-rounders before, so we should be able to find another one in the near future.
Our batting was very tentative in the first test... good to see that their movements are much more positive, moving the feet well, getting in line with the ball & leaving when needed.
It's ridiculous when batsmen leave the ball & get cleaned bowled or LBW... if you feel the ball is threatening your stumps get in line with it & play with soft hands so there's not much chance of the ball carrying to the keeper or slips.
I don’t reckon. They’re pretty scarce at the best of times and when Mitchell Starc is rated fifth best in the world you know that there’s a dearth of talent all over the world. Another Cairns, Vettori or especially Paddles would be great but don’t hold your breath.
India are just being greedy with Jadeja and Ashwin playing at the same time.
You're probably right - just such a big asset to have a top all-rounder in your side... yeah, don't see Starc as much of an all-rounder, he's basically a bloody slogger with the bat.
Those two calls by the umpire were shockers... the Banglas must have given him a gold watch
All rounder is a term that’s thrown round far too liberally. I think there’s only Holder, Al Hasan, Jadeja, Ashwin and Stokes playing now that deserve the label….and whilst he had his critics CDGH fashioned a bloody decent career for us too.
Paddles himself admitted he was really only “just” an all rounder given his record with the bat.
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@mn5 said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@kiwibloke said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@kiwibloke said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@kiwibloke said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@donsteppa said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
Bangladesh win the toss and bowl.
Mitchell in for Ravindra. Which, on recent form, makes the middle order seem a bit stronger.
Acid is on the top six to make starts and build on them. And a much improved performance with the ball is needed from Southee and Jamieson.
To me they’re similar in that they’re competent batsmen but next to nothing bowlers at this level. Judging by their first class stats they both average about a wicket or so per match. No where near good enough.
Calling either of them true All rounders is a massive stretch.
Still rate Mitchell a better bowling option than Ravindra on any deck at this stage & Mitchell has also scored a couple of test hundreds too, which also makes our batting stronger.
I suppose Mitch could become that Styris/Astle/McMillan type. Not world class as a batsman but a useful change bowler when needed as all those three were. They did play in an era where we expected less though.
Yeah, Mitchell isn't going to be a world class all-rounder... we're still looking for one, we've had plenty of top all-rounders before, so we should be able to find another one in the near future.
Our batting was very tentative in the first test... good to see that their movements are much more positive, moving the feet well, getting in line with the ball & leaving when needed.
It's ridiculous when batsmen leave the ball & get cleaned bowled or LBW... if you feel the ball is threatening your stumps get in line with it & play with soft hands so there's not much chance of the ball carrying to the keeper or slips.
I don’t reckon. They’re pretty scarce at the best of times and when Mitchell Starc is rated fifth best in the world you know that there’s a dearth of talent all over the world. Another Cairns, Vettori or especially Paddles would be great but don’t hold your breath.
India are just being greedy with Jadeja and Ashwin playing at the same time.
You're probably right - just such a big asset to have a top all-rounder in your side... yeah, don't see Starc as much of an all-rounder, he's basically a bloody slogger with the bat.
Those two calls by the umpire were shockers... the Banglas must have given him a gold watch
All rounder is a term that’s thrown round far too liberally. I think there’s only Holder, Al Hasan, Jadeja, Ashwin and Stokes playing now that deserve the label.
Paddles himself admitted he was really only “just” an all rounder given his record with the bat.
Yeah, a true all-rounder has the ability to consistently make a big diff to his team with either bat or ball... Hadlee's batting was very handy for us when we needed runs quickly, the bloke was a superb striker of the ball, it was unusual how he bowled right-handed, but use to bat left-handed.
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@kiwibloke said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@kiwibloke said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@kiwibloke said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@kiwibloke said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@donsteppa said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
Bangladesh win the toss and bowl.
Mitchell in for Ravindra. Which, on recent form, makes the middle order seem a bit stronger.
Acid is on the top six to make starts and build on them. And a much improved performance with the ball is needed from Southee and Jamieson.
To me they’re similar in that they’re competent batsmen but next to nothing bowlers at this level. Judging by their first class stats they both average about a wicket or so per match. No where near good enough.
Calling either of them true All rounders is a massive stretch.
Still rate Mitchell a better bowling option than Ravindra on any deck at this stage & Mitchell has also scored a couple of test hundreds too, which also makes our batting stronger.
I suppose Mitch could become that Styris/Astle/McMillan type. Not world class as a batsman but a useful change bowler when needed as all those three were. They did play in an era where we expected less though.
Yeah, Mitchell isn't going to be a world class all-rounder... we're still looking for one, we've had plenty of top all-rounders before, so we should be able to find another one in the near future.
Our batting was very tentative in the first test... good to see that their movements are much more positive, moving the feet well, getting in line with the ball & leaving when needed.
It's ridiculous when batsmen leave the ball & get cleaned bowled or LBW... if you feel the ball is threatening your stumps get in line with it & play with soft hands so there's not much chance of the ball carrying to the keeper or slips.
I don’t reckon. They’re pretty scarce at the best of times and when Mitchell Starc is rated fifth best in the world you know that there’s a dearth of talent all over the world. Another Cairns, Vettori or especially Paddles would be great but don’t hold your breath.
India are just being greedy with Jadeja and Ashwin playing at the same time.
You're probably right - just such a big asset to have a top all-rounder in your side... yeah, don't see Starc as much of an all-rounder, he's basically a bloody slogger with the bat.
Those two calls by the umpire were shockers... the Banglas must have given him a gold watch
All rounder is a term that’s thrown round far too liberally. I think there’s only Holder, Al Hasan, Jadeja, Ashwin and Stokes playing now that deserve the label.
Paddles himself admitted he was really only “just” an all rounder given his record with the bat.
Yeah, a true all-rounder has the ability to consistently make a big diff to his team with either bat or ball... Hadlee's batting was very handy for us when we needed runs quickly, the bloke was a superb striker of the ball, it was unusual how he bowled right-handed, but use to bat left-handed.
Na I think that’s pretty common, pretty sure a lot of great left handed batsmen are actually right handed in other things.
Here’s an interesting list…..probably pretty fair if a bit surprising at times.
https://www.icc-cricket.com/rankings/mens/player-rankings/test/all-time-all-rounder
Of note to me……
No Kapil Dev. At all. No Vettori or Shaun Pollock either.
Greig and Flintoff rated higher than I’d have thought.
Beefy over Imran.
Paddles arguably the best bowler in that list but definitely one of the most inferior batsmen.
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@donsteppa said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
This game is going a lot more to script. Though Day One at Bay Oval felt like that way for a while too I suppose.
At least Latham has lasted long enough to build up a sweat this time
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@mn5 said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@kiwibloke said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@kiwibloke said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@kiwibloke said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@kiwibloke said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@donsteppa said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
Bangladesh win the toss and bowl.
Mitchell in for Ravindra. Which, on recent form, makes the middle order seem a bit stronger.
Acid is on the top six to make starts and build on them. And a much improved performance with the ball is needed from Southee and Jamieson.
To me they’re similar in that they’re competent batsmen but next to nothing bowlers at this level. Judging by their first class stats they both average about a wicket or so per match. No where near good enough.
Calling either of them true All rounders is a massive stretch.
Still rate Mitchell a better bowling option than Ravindra on any deck at this stage & Mitchell has also scored a couple of test hundreds too, which also makes our batting stronger.
I suppose Mitch could become that Styris/Astle/McMillan type. Not world class as a batsman but a useful change bowler when needed as all those three were. They did play in an era where we expected less though.
Yeah, Mitchell isn't going to be a world class all-rounder... we're still looking for one, we've had plenty of top all-rounders before, so we should be able to find another one in the near future.
Our batting was very tentative in the first test... good to see that their movements are much more positive, moving the feet well, getting in line with the ball & leaving when needed.
It's ridiculous when batsmen leave the ball & get cleaned bowled or LBW... if you feel the ball is threatening your stumps get in line with it & play with soft hands so there's not much chance of the ball carrying to the keeper or slips.
I don’t reckon. They’re pretty scarce at the best of times and when Mitchell Starc is rated fifth best in the world you know that there’s a dearth of talent all over the world. Another Cairns, Vettori or especially Paddles would be great but don’t hold your breath.
India are just being greedy with Jadeja and Ashwin playing at the same time.
You're probably right - just such a big asset to have a top all-rounder in your side... yeah, don't see Starc as much of an all-rounder, he's basically a bloody slogger with the bat.
Those two calls by the umpire were shockers... the Banglas must have given him a gold watch
All rounder is a term that’s thrown round far too liberally. I think there’s only Holder, Al Hasan, Jadeja, Ashwin and Stokes playing now that deserve the label.
Paddles himself admitted he was really only “just” an all rounder given his record with the bat.
Yeah, a true all-rounder has the ability to consistently make a big diff to his team with either bat or ball... Hadlee's batting was very handy for us when we needed runs quickly, the bloke was a superb striker of the ball, it was unusual how he bowled right-handed, but use to bat left-handed.
Na I think that’s pretty common, pretty sure a lot of great left handed batsmen are actually right handed in other things.
Here’s an interesting list…..probably pretty fair if a bit surprising at times.
https://www.icc-cricket.com/rankings/mens/player-rankings/test/all-time-all-rounder
Of note to me……
No Kapil Dev. At all. No Vettori or Shaun Pollock either.
Greig and Flintoff rated higher than I’d have thought.
Beefy over Imran.
Paddles arguably the best bowler in that list but definitely one of the most inferior batsmen.
Not a lot of logic to some of those rankings - there's no doubt though that Sobers is the best all-rounder ever, not only was he a great batsman, he was also a quality pace bowler & a quality wrist spinner, making him worth his weight in gold on any type of wicket.
Good sensible batting by our openers, hopefully they go on to get a really big partnership, setting an excellent platform for our other batsmen, we've need to win this one after that howler in the first one.
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@kiwibloke said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
Not a lot of logic to some of those rankings - there's no doubt though that Sobers is the best all-rounder ever, not only was he a great batsman, he was also a quality pace bowler & a quality wrist spinner, making him worth his weight in gold on any type of wicket.
I guess it's measuring their peak performance - after a golden run of form with bat and ball. Hence early-Botham, comes in second, because he really was sensational in his early days. So that list rewards a high peak rather than long run consistency.
Interesting that you can throw a blanket over people from about Imran down to Sir Paddles, though - all scored 480-520. Not a lot to choose between them.
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@chris-b said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@kiwibloke said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
Not a lot of logic to some of those rankings - there's no doubt though that Sobers is the best all-rounder ever, not only was he a great batsman, he was also a quality pace bowler & a quality wrist spinner, making him worth his weight in gold on any type of wicket.
I guess it's measuring their peak performance - after a golden run of form with bat and ball. Hence early-Botham, comes in second, because he really was sensational in his early days. So that list rewards a high peak rather than long run consistency.
Interesting that you can throw a blanket over people from about Imran down to Sir Paddles, though - all scored 480-520. Not a lot to choose between them.
…..and I guess Flintoff scores highly based on a massive Ashes series and the fact Cairns had retired by then.
Beefy had stats of about 38 and 23 respectively after about 50 tests. He coasted in the second half to be honest.
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@damo said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@damo said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@hydro11 said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@nzzp said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@nzzp said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@donsteppa said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
In my post match ramblings, my fried-from-the-Bay Oval-sun brain vaguely tried to make sense of the recent apparent change in Jamieson's bowling, and perhaps wider fortunes. His bowling average remains very impressive, but it looked like something was not quite right either
Sitting side-on on the evening of Day Three, on two to three occasions I thought there was some sort of (relative!) hesitancy/lack of fluency mid-action for Jamieson.
But as always with these things... I wondered if I was imagining it, or that 'thing' may have always been there when he was taking lots of wickets for not many. Cricket being one of those games where you can find almost anything if you start looking for it...
So it was interesting to read something well beyond my analytical skills from Chris Cairns behind the Herald paywall today: Chris Cairns column: The Black Caps issues that need addressing. The whole column is worth a read if you have access, but this particularly caught my eye:
... Trent Boult and Neil Wagner appeared their normal selves, but Tim Southee and Kyle Jamieson seemed off the mark.
...
... In contrast, Jamieson is early into his test career and has been outstanding to date. A lack of wickets against Bangladesh – two for 90 - will be unfamiliar territory. I felt his timing was out at the point of delivery and this caused him to push the ball, especially to the left-handers. He also seemed to overstride in his run-up. That meant he did not hold his left side upright long enough in the delivery stride to maximise the tremendous height he possesses when powering over his front leg. This is a minor thing to tweak and his rhythm could quickly return at Hagley Oval. ...Hopefully a quick fix for Hagley Oval then!
How good is it seeing Cairnsy writing articles compared to how he was a few months back ?
I'm cautious of someone who's been allegedly involved with match fixing being given a platform like that.
Doesn’t take away from the fact he was one of our best players and knows the game intimately.
I know. But his involvement appears super duper dodgy.
I contrast this with cancel culture, and I guess it's a matter of degree. There are very few people I'm cautious of continuing in their professions. Tony Veitch is one, Cairns is another. But my list is pretty short.
Let's be clear. The involvement of Cairns isn't dodgy. Brendon McCullum testified under oath that Cairns approached him about match fixing. Either McCullum lied under oath or Cairns is a match fixer.
Cairns should have no place in cricket.
You should add Joseph Parker to your list. No idea how a drug dealer keeps getting so much positive publicity in the media.
I agree with this. I thought his career would be effectively over in New Zealand. Nobody seems to care though and he is brought on the radio for fluff interviews.
I thought Cairns was basically ignored now aside from his recent medical issues. I am a bit surprised he is writing articles.
Parker is a choirboy compared to any number of boxers who’ve done far, far worse and still competed. If anything his recent antics have helped his reputation. Ridiculous comparison.
He allegedly laundered money for people importing commercial quantities of meth into NZ.
I don't care that much about what other boxers have and haven't done - I am surprised that in NZ he seems to have been given a pass.
Actually yeah that’s a good point, we’re pretty quick to judge as a nation.
