Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022
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@mn5 said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@nzzp said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@donsteppa said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
In my post match ramblings, my fried-from-the-Bay Oval-sun brain vaguely tried to make sense of the recent apparent change in Jamieson's bowling, and perhaps wider fortunes. His bowling average remains very impressive, but it looked like something was not quite right either
Sitting side-on on the evening of Day Three, on two to three occasions I thought there was some sort of (relative!) hesitancy/lack of fluency mid-action for Jamieson.
But as always with these things... I wondered if I was imagining it, or that 'thing' may have always been there when he was taking lots of wickets for not many. Cricket being one of those games where you can find almost anything if you start looking for it...
So it was interesting to read something well beyond my analytical skills from Chris Cairns behind the Herald paywall today: Chris Cairns column: The Black Caps issues that need addressing. The whole column is worth a read if you have access, but this particularly caught my eye:
... Trent Boult and Neil Wagner appeared their normal selves, but Tim Southee and Kyle Jamieson seemed off the mark.
...
... In contrast, Jamieson is early into his test career and has been outstanding to date. A lack of wickets against Bangladesh – two for 90 - will be unfamiliar territory. I felt his timing was out at the point of delivery and this caused him to push the ball, especially to the left-handers. He also seemed to overstride in his run-up. That meant he did not hold his left side upright long enough in the delivery stride to maximise the tremendous height he possesses when powering over his front leg. This is a minor thing to tweak and his rhythm could quickly return at Hagley Oval. ...Hopefully a quick fix for Hagley Oval then!
How good is it seeing Cairnsy writing articles compared to how he was a few months back ?
I'm cautious of someone who's been allegedly involved with match fixing being given a platform like that.
Doesn’t take away from the fact he was one of our best players and knows the game intimately.
I know. But his involvement appears super duper dodgy.
I contrast this with cancel culture, and I guess it's a matter of degree. There are very few people I'm cautious of continuing in their professions. Tony Veitch is one, Cairns is another. But my list is pretty short.
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@nzzp said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@nzzp said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@donsteppa said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
In my post match ramblings, my fried-from-the-Bay Oval-sun brain vaguely tried to make sense of the recent apparent change in Jamieson's bowling, and perhaps wider fortunes. His bowling average remains very impressive, but it looked like something was not quite right either
Sitting side-on on the evening of Day Three, on two to three occasions I thought there was some sort of (relative!) hesitancy/lack of fluency mid-action for Jamieson.
But as always with these things... I wondered if I was imagining it, or that 'thing' may have always been there when he was taking lots of wickets for not many. Cricket being one of those games where you can find almost anything if you start looking for it...
So it was interesting to read something well beyond my analytical skills from Chris Cairns behind the Herald paywall today: Chris Cairns column: The Black Caps issues that need addressing. The whole column is worth a read if you have access, but this particularly caught my eye:
... Trent Boult and Neil Wagner appeared their normal selves, but Tim Southee and Kyle Jamieson seemed off the mark.
...
... In contrast, Jamieson is early into his test career and has been outstanding to date. A lack of wickets against Bangladesh – two for 90 - will be unfamiliar territory. I felt his timing was out at the point of delivery and this caused him to push the ball, especially to the left-handers. He also seemed to overstride in his run-up. That meant he did not hold his left side upright long enough in the delivery stride to maximise the tremendous height he possesses when powering over his front leg. This is a minor thing to tweak and his rhythm could quickly return at Hagley Oval. ...Hopefully a quick fix for Hagley Oval then!
How good is it seeing Cairnsy writing articles compared to how he was a few months back ?
I'm cautious of someone who's been allegedly involved with match fixing being given a platform like that.
Doesn’t take away from the fact he was one of our best players and knows the game intimately.
I know. But his involvement appears super duper dodgy.
I contrast this with cancel culture, and I guess it's a matter of degree. There are very few people I'm cautious of continuing in their professions. Tony Veitch is one, Cairns is another. But my list is pretty short.
I think allegedly cheating in a game doesn’t quite compare with being an arsehole who beats a woman but there you go.
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@donsteppa said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
Bad news for Bangladesh, the Herald is reporting that Mahmudul Hasan Joy is out injured and likely to be replaced by a bloke with a first class batting average of 16.
Only rumoured Black Caps change seems to be Mitchell for Ravindra, pitch depending.
I’m not paying attention to that. We got rolled by a bowler who averaged over 80 in the last test.
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@mn5 said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@donsteppa said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
Bad news for Bangladesh, the Herald is reporting that Mahmudul Hasan Joy is out injured and likely to be replaced by a bloke with a first class batting average of 16.
Only rumoured Black Caps change seems to be Mitchell for Ravindra, pitch depending.
I’m not paying attention to that. We got rolled by a bowler who averaged over 80 in the last test.
Only in this case, we know that the incumbent was good from bitter experience
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Bangladesh win the toss and bowl.
Mitchell in for Ravindra. Which, on recent form, makes the middle order seem a bit stronger.
Acid is on the top six to make starts and build on them. And a much improved performance with the ball is needed from Southee and Jamieson.
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@donsteppa said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
Bad news for Bangladesh, the Herald is reporting that Mahmudul Hasan Joy is out injured and likely to be replaced by a bloke with a first class batting average of 16.
Only rumoured Black Caps change seems to be Mitchell for Ravindra, pitch depending.
Ravindra doesn't add much with bat or ball - therefore the pitch doesn't really come into it... from the squad we have for this series against the Banglas reckon Mitchell should be replacing Ravindra in the 11.
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@nzzp said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@nzzp said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@donsteppa said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
In my post match ramblings, my fried-from-the-Bay Oval-sun brain vaguely tried to make sense of the recent apparent change in Jamieson's bowling, and perhaps wider fortunes. His bowling average remains very impressive, but it looked like something was not quite right either
Sitting side-on on the evening of Day Three, on two to three occasions I thought there was some sort of (relative!) hesitancy/lack of fluency mid-action for Jamieson.
But as always with these things... I wondered if I was imagining it, or that 'thing' may have always been there when he was taking lots of wickets for not many. Cricket being one of those games where you can find almost anything if you start looking for it...
So it was interesting to read something well beyond my analytical skills from Chris Cairns behind the Herald paywall today: Chris Cairns column: The Black Caps issues that need addressing. The whole column is worth a read if you have access, but this particularly caught my eye:
... Trent Boult and Neil Wagner appeared their normal selves, but Tim Southee and Kyle Jamieson seemed off the mark.
...
... In contrast, Jamieson is early into his test career and has been outstanding to date. A lack of wickets against Bangladesh – two for 90 - will be unfamiliar territory. I felt his timing was out at the point of delivery and this caused him to push the ball, especially to the left-handers. He also seemed to overstride in his run-up. That meant he did not hold his left side upright long enough in the delivery stride to maximise the tremendous height he possesses when powering over his front leg. This is a minor thing to tweak and his rhythm could quickly return at Hagley Oval. ...Hopefully a quick fix for Hagley Oval then!
How good is it seeing Cairnsy writing articles compared to how he was a few months back ?
I'm cautious of someone who's been allegedly involved with match fixing being given a platform like that.
Doesn’t take away from the fact he was one of our best players and knows the game intimately.
I know. But his involvement appears super duper dodgy.
I contrast this with cancel culture, and I guess it's a matter of degree. There are very few people I'm cautious of continuing in their professions. Tony Veitch is one, Cairns is another. But my list is pretty short.
Let's be clear. The involvement of Cairns isn't dodgy. Brendon McCullum testified under oath that Cairns approached him about match fixing. Either McCullum lied under oath or Cairns is a match fixer.
Cairns should have no place in cricket.
You should add Joseph Parker to your list. No idea how a drug dealer keeps getting so much positive publicity in the media.
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@donsteppa said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
Bangladesh win the toss and bowl.
Mitchell in for Ravindra. Which, on recent form, makes the middle order seem a bit stronger.
Acid is on the top six to make starts and build on them. And a much improved performance with the ball is needed from Southee and Jamieson.
To me they’re similar in that they’re competent batsmen but next to nothing bowlers at this level. Judging by their first class stats they both average about a wicket or so per match. No where near good enough.
Calling either of them true All rounders is a massive stretch.
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@mn5 said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@donsteppa said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
Bangladesh win the toss and bowl.
Mitchell in for Ravindra. Which, on recent form, makes the middle order seem a bit stronger.
Acid is on the top six to make starts and build on them. And a much improved performance with the ball is needed from Southee and Jamieson.
To me they’re similar in that they’re competent batsmen but next to nothing bowlers at this level. Judging by their first class stats they both average about a wicket or so per match. No where near good enough.
Calling either of them true All rounders is a massive stretch.
Still rate Mitchell a better bowling option than Ravindra on any deck at this stage & Mitchell has also scored a couple of test hundreds too, which also makes our batting stronger.
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@kiwibloke said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@donsteppa said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
Bangladesh win the toss and bowl.
Mitchell in for Ravindra. Which, on recent form, makes the middle order seem a bit stronger.
Acid is on the top six to make starts and build on them. And a much improved performance with the ball is needed from Southee and Jamieson.
To me they’re similar in that they’re competent batsmen but next to nothing bowlers at this level. Judging by their first class stats they both average about a wicket or so per match. No where near good enough.
Calling either of them true All rounders is a massive stretch.
Still rate Mitchell a better bowling option than Ravindra on any deck at this stage & Mitchell has also scored a couple of test hundreds too, which also makes our batting stronger.
I suppose Mitch could become that Styris/Astle/McMillan type. Not world class as a batsman but a useful change bowler when needed as all those three were. They did play in an era where we expected less though.
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@hydro11 said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@nzzp said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@nzzp said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@donsteppa said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
In my post match ramblings, my fried-from-the-Bay Oval-sun brain vaguely tried to make sense of the recent apparent change in Jamieson's bowling, and perhaps wider fortunes. His bowling average remains very impressive, but it looked like something was not quite right either
Sitting side-on on the evening of Day Three, on two to three occasions I thought there was some sort of (relative!) hesitancy/lack of fluency mid-action for Jamieson.
But as always with these things... I wondered if I was imagining it, or that 'thing' may have always been there when he was taking lots of wickets for not many. Cricket being one of those games where you can find almost anything if you start looking for it...
So it was interesting to read something well beyond my analytical skills from Chris Cairns behind the Herald paywall today: Chris Cairns column: The Black Caps issues that need addressing. The whole column is worth a read if you have access, but this particularly caught my eye:
... Trent Boult and Neil Wagner appeared their normal selves, but Tim Southee and Kyle Jamieson seemed off the mark.
...
... In contrast, Jamieson is early into his test career and has been outstanding to date. A lack of wickets against Bangladesh – two for 90 - will be unfamiliar territory. I felt his timing was out at the point of delivery and this caused him to push the ball, especially to the left-handers. He also seemed to overstride in his run-up. That meant he did not hold his left side upright long enough in the delivery stride to maximise the tremendous height he possesses when powering over his front leg. This is a minor thing to tweak and his rhythm could quickly return at Hagley Oval. ...Hopefully a quick fix for Hagley Oval then!
How good is it seeing Cairnsy writing articles compared to how he was a few months back ?
I'm cautious of someone who's been allegedly involved with match fixing being given a platform like that.
Doesn’t take away from the fact he was one of our best players and knows the game intimately.
I know. But his involvement appears super duper dodgy.
I contrast this with cancel culture, and I guess it's a matter of degree. There are very few people I'm cautious of continuing in their professions. Tony Veitch is one, Cairns is another. But my list is pretty short.
Let's be clear. The involvement of Cairns isn't dodgy. Brendon McCullum testified under oath that Cairns approached him about match fixing. Either McCullum lied under oath or Cairns is a match fixer.
Cairns should have no place in cricket.
You should add Joseph Parker to your list. No idea how a drug dealer keeps getting so much positive publicity in the media.
I agree with this. I thought his career would be effectively over in New Zealand. Nobody seems to care though and he is brought on the radio for fluff interviews.
I thought Cairns was basically ignored now aside from his recent medical issues. I am a bit surprised he is writing articles.
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@damo said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@hydro11 said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@nzzp said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@nzzp said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@donsteppa said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
In my post match ramblings, my fried-from-the-Bay Oval-sun brain vaguely tried to make sense of the recent apparent change in Jamieson's bowling, and perhaps wider fortunes. His bowling average remains very impressive, but it looked like something was not quite right either
Sitting side-on on the evening of Day Three, on two to three occasions I thought there was some sort of (relative!) hesitancy/lack of fluency mid-action for Jamieson.
But as always with these things... I wondered if I was imagining it, or that 'thing' may have always been there when he was taking lots of wickets for not many. Cricket being one of those games where you can find almost anything if you start looking for it...
So it was interesting to read something well beyond my analytical skills from Chris Cairns behind the Herald paywall today: Chris Cairns column: The Black Caps issues that need addressing. The whole column is worth a read if you have access, but this particularly caught my eye:
... Trent Boult and Neil Wagner appeared their normal selves, but Tim Southee and Kyle Jamieson seemed off the mark.
...
... In contrast, Jamieson is early into his test career and has been outstanding to date. A lack of wickets against Bangladesh – two for 90 - will be unfamiliar territory. I felt his timing was out at the point of delivery and this caused him to push the ball, especially to the left-handers. He also seemed to overstride in his run-up. That meant he did not hold his left side upright long enough in the delivery stride to maximise the tremendous height he possesses when powering over his front leg. This is a minor thing to tweak and his rhythm could quickly return at Hagley Oval. ...Hopefully a quick fix for Hagley Oval then!
How good is it seeing Cairnsy writing articles compared to how he was a few months back ?
I'm cautious of someone who's been allegedly involved with match fixing being given a platform like that.
Doesn’t take away from the fact he was one of our best players and knows the game intimately.
I know. But his involvement appears super duper dodgy.
I contrast this with cancel culture, and I guess it's a matter of degree. There are very few people I'm cautious of continuing in their professions. Tony Veitch is one, Cairns is another. But my list is pretty short.
Let's be clear. The involvement of Cairns isn't dodgy. Brendon McCullum testified under oath that Cairns approached him about match fixing. Either McCullum lied under oath or Cairns is a match fixer.
Cairns should have no place in cricket.
You should add Joseph Parker to your list. No idea how a drug dealer keeps getting so much positive publicity in the media.
I agree with this. I thought his career would be effectively over in New Zealand. Nobody seems to care though and he is brought on the radio for fluff interviews.
I thought Cairns was basically ignored now aside from his recent medical issues. I am a bit surprised he is writing articles.
Parker is a choirboy compared to any number of boxers who’ve done far, far worse and still competed. If anything his recent antics have helped his reputation. Ridiculous comparison.
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@mn5 said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@kiwibloke said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@donsteppa said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
Bangladesh win the toss and bowl.
Mitchell in for Ravindra. Which, on recent form, makes the middle order seem a bit stronger.
Acid is on the top six to make starts and build on them. And a much improved performance with the ball is needed from Southee and Jamieson.
To me they’re similar in that they’re competent batsmen but next to nothing bowlers at this level. Judging by their first class stats they both average about a wicket or so per match. No where near good enough.
Calling either of them true All rounders is a massive stretch.
Still rate Mitchell a better bowling option than Ravindra on any deck at this stage & Mitchell has also scored a couple of test hundreds too, which also makes our batting stronger.
I suppose Mitch could become that Styris/Astle/McMillan type. Not world class as a batsman but a useful change bowler when needed as all those three were. They did play in an era where we expected less though.
Yeah, Mitchell isn't going to be a world class all-rounder... we're still looking for one, we've had plenty of top all-rounders before, so we should be able to find another one in the near future.
Our batting was very tentative in the first test... good to see that their movements are much more positive, moving the feet well, getting in line with the ball & leaving when needed.
It's ridiculous when batsmen leave the ball & get cleaned bowled or LBW... if you feel the ball is threatening your stumps get in line with it & play with soft hands so there's not much chance of the ball carrying to the keeper or slips.
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@kiwibloke said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@kiwibloke said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@donsteppa said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
Bangladesh win the toss and bowl.
Mitchell in for Ravindra. Which, on recent form, makes the middle order seem a bit stronger.
Acid is on the top six to make starts and build on them. And a much improved performance with the ball is needed from Southee and Jamieson.
To me they’re similar in that they’re competent batsmen but next to nothing bowlers at this level. Judging by their first class stats they both average about a wicket or so per match. No where near good enough.
Calling either of them true All rounders is a massive stretch.
Still rate Mitchell a better bowling option than Ravindra on any deck at this stage & Mitchell has also scored a couple of test hundreds too, which also makes our batting stronger.
I suppose Mitch could become that Styris/Astle/McMillan type. Not world class as a batsman but a useful change bowler when needed as all those three were. They did play in an era where we expected less though.
Yeah, Mitchell isn't going to be a world class all-rounder... we're still looking for one, we've had plenty of top all-rounders before, so we should be able to find another one in the near future.
Our batting was very tentative in the first test... good to see that their movements are much more positive, moving the feet well, getting in line with the ball & leaving when needed.
It's ridiculous when batsmen leave the ball & get cleaned bowled or LBW... if you feel the ball is threatening your stumps get in line with it & play with soft hands so there's not much chance of the ball carrying to the keeper or slips.
I don’t reckon. They’re pretty scarce at the best of times and when Mitchell Starc is rated fifth best in the world you know that there’s a dearth of talent all over the world. Another Cairns, Vettori or especially Paddles would be great but don’t hold your breath.
India are just being greedy with Jadeja and Ashwin playing at the same time.
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