All Blacks vs USA
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I only just watched (a grainy version of) the match and it was hard to shake the feeling I was just watching the highlights.
Apart from 9 (best halfback and one of the best on the pitch for me) and the 12 it really looked like the Eagles were used to gentlemen's rugby. Farsighted aggressive strategy, speedy strikes, weren't really their thing.
They stayed fitter for longer than I was expecting though.
Sam looked a bit creaky next to Lord, who might have stepped out of a Willy Wonka factory but was still quite athletic and surprisingly fast for a big guy.
I suspect Vaa'i was told to run at everything and hustle them, which he did, so I'd forgive him for a few rushed errors.
DMac has such quick hands I suspect he is competing with Beauden for the spare 10 role, apart from a good stretch of his legs I thought the latter was rather quiet, while DMac was the catalyst for most activities and was most found out defending at fb but energetic and creative as playmaker.
Props were good (ok Bones, I could see the aerobic value of Angus in this match) and I do like the look of De Groot, I did notice any crazy mistakes from the hookers (ok a few early lineout throws were a bit edgy) and our forwards I thought were good. Not a time for 7s to shine and Sotutu made some mistakes but I thought he also took some key steals and his linking is great. Jacobson looks a bit more comfortable at 6 than 8 for me but yes, dangerous to make too many predictions on this game.
Great to see a traditional 12 run straight and hard again (is Havili in trouble for 12? Not sure, Foster and co. are quite conservative/loyal), I agree Ennor looked more dangerous on the wing than at 13 (imagine, an 11 who likes the sideline and is not called Rieko)...it was very strange how active Jordan was compared to Bridge, including on Bridge's side. Given the one non-burst from Bridge, who looks slower than our 6 today, I wonder if he is actually carrying an injury?
I forgot to mention our 9s, I liked how Christie just concentrated on the basics, although against more physical sides I'd be worried he might blow over in the wind. I thought TJP did not start too badly then got slower and slower, as if he was playing in Instagram-friendly quicksand, and his decisions weren't great even if the support play was still there. And he also seemed to forget how to clear from behind the ruck. I would have thought that and passing would be things one could improve on with time.
One concern for me is that no matter who is playing, when the bench is cleared our organization, structure, basic skills, goes completely to merde. Surely it should be getting a little bit better by now? It's not like today we were playing S Africa with super-dangerous players riding the pine. -
replay with a foreign commentary -
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@crucial said in All Blacks vs USA:
@crazy-horse said in All Blacks vs USA:
Haven't read the thread but udging by the post above others are thinking along the same lines - the biggest take from the game for me is that it is well and truly time to put TJ out to pasture.
A real shame. I thought he was going to be something special when he first came on the scene but I reckon he has never been the same since his leg injury a few years ago.
He doesn't pass with his legs!
His support play is still top notch it's the distribution that is crap.@crucial said in All Blacks vs USA:
@crazy-horse said in All Blacks vs USA:
Haven't read the thread but udging by the post above others are thinking along the same lines - the biggest take from the game for me is that it is well and truly time to put TJ out to pasture.
A real shame. I thought he was going to be something special when he first came on the scene but I reckon he has never been the same since his leg injury a few years ago.
He doesn't pass with his legs!
His support play is still top notch it's the distribution that is crap.TJP's basic problem is that, while he is a really good rugby player, he's just not a half back. He's basically a massive under-sized flanker who has been who-horned into the halfback position to find a place for him on the field. And, because of his generally great ability to read the play, defend, run great support lines and score tries, his massive deficiencies in the technical aspects of the position that he actually plays have been glossed over. In that respect, he's actually very much like a lot of AB halfbacks in recent times - Marshall, Kelleher, Weepu, Leonard, for example, all had massive weaknesses when it came to the core technical roles of a halfback, but these were excused because they were all good rugby players. If TJP had ben contemporaries of these guys, we wouldn't be complaining about him so much. But he plays with one the best passing halfbacks of all time, so his weaknesses in that are are glaring.
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@nepia said in All Blacks vs USA:
@frye said in All Blacks vs USA:
@nepia what do you define as cracking the ton?
Did you keep reading the rest of the thread?
You seemed to have made the same mistake as I did by posting before the end.
I blame the forum software.
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@machpants said in All Blacks vs USA:
@daffy-jaffy said in All Blacks vs USA:
As normal can't hear the frikkin questions
Another thing to blame Foster aye 🙄
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@junior said in All Blacks vs USA:
@crucial said in All Blacks vs USA:
@crazy-horse said in All Blacks vs USA:
Haven't read the thread but udging by the post above others are thinking along the same lines - the biggest take from the game for me is that it is well and truly time to put TJ out to pasture.
A real shame. I thought he was going to be something special when he first came on the scene but I reckon he has never been the same since his leg injury a few years ago.
He doesn't pass with his legs!
His support play is still top notch it's the distribution that is crap.@crucial said in All Blacks vs USA:
@crazy-horse said in All Blacks vs USA:
Haven't read the thread but udging by the post above others are thinking along the same lines - the biggest take from the game for me is that it is well and truly time to put TJ out to pasture.
A real shame. I thought he was going to be something special when he first came on the scene but I reckon he has never been the same since his leg injury a few years ago.
He doesn't pass with his legs!
His support play is still top notch it's the distribution that is crap.TJP's basic problem is that, while he is a really good rugby player, he's just not a half back. He's basically a massive under-sized flanker who has been who-horned into the halfback position to find a place for him on the field. And, because of his generally great ability to read the play, defend, run great support lines and score tries, his massive deficiencies in the technical aspects of the position that he actually plays have been glossed over. In that respect, he's actually very much like a lot of AB halfbacks in recent times - Marshall, Kelleher, Weepu, Leonard, for example, all had massive weaknesses when it came to the core technical roles of a halfback, but these were excused because they were all good rugby players. If TJP had ben contemporaries of these guys, we wouldn't be complaining about him so much. But he plays with one the best passing halfbacks of all time, so his weaknesses in that are are glaring.
I actually think he would’ve made a good go at 1st 5. Not world class but he obviously thrives with ball in hand and creating play, but without the passing from the base.
All those attributes you listed would work well at 10 without him having to possess a superior ground ball passing game.
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@act-crusader said in All Blacks vs USA:
@junior said in All Blacks vs USA:
@crucial said in All Blacks vs USA:
@crazy-horse said in All Blacks vs USA:
Haven't read the thread but udging by the post above others are thinking along the same lines - the biggest take from the game for me is that it is well and truly time to put TJ out to pasture.
A real shame. I thought he was going to be something special when he first came on the scene but I reckon he has never been the same since his leg injury a few years ago.
He doesn't pass with his legs!
His support play is still top notch it's the distribution that is crap.@crucial said in All Blacks vs USA:
@crazy-horse said in All Blacks vs USA:
Haven't read the thread but udging by the post above others are thinking along the same lines - the biggest take from the game for me is that it is well and truly time to put TJ out to pasture.
A real shame. I thought he was going to be something special when he first came on the scene but I reckon he has never been the same since his leg injury a few years ago.
He doesn't pass with his legs!
His support play is still top notch it's the distribution that is crap.TJP's basic problem is that, while he is a really good rugby player, he's just not a half back. He's basically a massive under-sized flanker who has been who-horned into the halfback position to find a place for him on the field. And, because of his generally great ability to read the play, defend, run great support lines and score tries, his massive deficiencies in the technical aspects of the position that he actually plays have been glossed over. In that respect, he's actually very much like a lot of AB halfbacks in recent times - Marshall, Kelleher, Weepu, Leonard, for example, all had massive weaknesses when it came to the core technical roles of a halfback, but these were excused because they were all good rugby players. If TJP had ben contemporaries of these guys, we wouldn't be complaining about him so much. But he plays with one the best passing halfbacks of all time, so his weaknesses in that are are glaring.
I actually think he would’ve made a good go at 1st 5. Not world class but he obviously thrives with ball in hand and creating play, but without the passing from the base.
All those attributes you listed would work well at 10 without him having to possess a superior ground ball passing game.
I don't disagree with any of that, but the bolded part is particularly interesting. I wonder if his problem here is that he's too tall or maybe his legs are too long. It's a weird comment, I know, but a guy with long legs and a long stride is going to be at a bit of disadvantage when squatting down to clear the ball off the deck. He's going to be relying much more on hip hinge to get down at sweep the ball off the deck, meaning he's more likely to be off balance than a guy with shorter legs who can bend at the knees and squat much more easily. That's probably just a nerdy biomechanical way of saying that he's just not built to be a passing halfback.
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@junior I have always appreciated him as a player. He has actually played pretty well at 1st five for the Canes. Good vision and pretty good kicking game. Maybe league would have accommodated his style of play. What do you guys think who watch league more? In the same vein I think DMac is not an international fullback because of his size, excellent at super rugby, but would imagine he would have been a fantastic halfback.
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I see novices are using players running wild against USA to say other players are under threat. Let’s see Quinn against a proper team first before saying Havili is dooooomed.
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@billy-tell I agree but still think Havilli is too light for the position not that Tupea is a heavyweight.
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@broughie said in All Blacks vs USA:
@junior I have always appreciated him as a player. He has actually played pretty well at 1st five for the Canes. Good vision and pretty good kicking game. Maybe league would have accommodated his style of play. What do you guys think who watch league more? In the same vein I think DMac is not an international fullback because of his size, excellent at super rugby, but would imagine he would have been a fantastic halfback.
I think his passing would still have been a problem in league because they were looking at him as a hooker.
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I went back and looked specifically at George bridge . To see why he was almost invisible. Every kick off was kicked to the same side and Will Jordan caught and passed to QT. Then it went left and never got out to bridge. We then snapped back right and because they were so shit we invariably scored off that phase. The ball just didn’t go his way. As a crusaders fan I think he’s a bloody good player. As a All blacks fan I don’t think he is one of our top 5 wingers.
As for Sam Cane, the guy is a freak. If we never had the goat before him then he would be regarded as one of our best ever. Actually watch what he does off the ball. Watch how quickly he gets off the ground and back into the play. These are the things the coaches look for in a 7. -
@broughie said in All Blacks vs USA:
I think DMac is not an international fullback because of his size.
Not sure about the size argument. His lack of size didn't stop him from being outstanding against the NH sides in 2018 and he's no worse under the high ball than other players. His defence is generally pretty good to outstanding:
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@chchfanatic said in All Blacks vs USA:
As for Sam Cane, the guy is a freak. If we never had the goat before him then he would be regarded as one of our best ever. Actually watch what he does off the ball. Watch how quickly he gets off the ground and back into the play. These are the things the coaches look for in a 7
100% agree. Sam Cane is one of those players you only notice when he isn't playing.
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@victor-meldrew But against the sides that are going to cause us problems like the Bok and perhaps England and Australia his size is an issue. But that is why I prefer Jordy.
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@chchfanatic
i thought sam went pretty well for first game .in one of the phase plays for usa he must of done 4 or 5 tackes was noticeable the difference he made -
The Herald deserves an Asterix against their match coverage today for such poor quality. It belongs in a French comic. It was Dmac who took the kick covertly before the camera could fix in. Not Richie. Bias showed in the player reviews where Dmac was blamed for US LONE try and Jordan glossed past for second. Why focus so selectively on the odd error?
In the land of the Harlem Globetrotters spectators might occasionally enjoy seeing world class skills displayed and a lot of flowing play. Hell the depleted Eagles even scored twice themselves.
I wonder if the US coverage would have mentioned that Augspurger Civetta Lopeti and Germishuys all showed up pretty well against classy opposition.
Awful coverage for any American fan to read. I guess the excuse is that it's a holiday weekend and no sub-editors available.
