The Top Two Inches
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Without going into the actual facts of the game (allowable, even expected under Fern rules), if the source material is Reason you are already starting from a position that the ABs are wrong.
And no, I haven't read the article either
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@l_n_p said in The Top Two Inches:
@mrdenmore said in The Top Two Inches:
again raises fresh questions about the intellect of the Foster regime. What do others think?
Fozzie only just did "Selection 101" last off-season, give him a break.
My honest opinion?
- Both pre-McCaw 2008+ leadership version and post-McCaw the AB's have often looked a bit mentally fragile under Woodward's TCUP (Think Clearly Under Pressure) mode.
- Take the 3 ... just take it!
I saw glimpses of improved mental toughness in the first Boks' game and they weathered the pressure pretty well last Saturday until the last 5 minutes - which were a shocker.
I hope they are looking like the pre-2008 model rather than the post 2016 model..
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@mrdenmore said in The Top Two Inches:
@broughie It reinforces the idea that regardless of his merits as a coach, the continuity that Foster represents just adds up to more of the same and that is playing into the hands of the competition. For several years now, the ABs have been playing a similar style and other teams have worked out how to defuse it.
It’s like any company. It leads innovation for a while and then settles back on its heels and the creativity starts showing up elsewhere. As Reason says, the ABs looked better than they actually were playing a raw Wallabies team and a sub-standard Pumas outfit. The speed game works well when built around Aaron Smith, but that introduces key man risk when he’s not there.
Ultimately, they need new ideas and they need to create doubt in the eyes of their opponents, who have come to know what to expect. As it is, they look like a post Steve Jobs-Apple.
In fairness, Apple has grown massively post-Jobs under Cook
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As far as on-field management (or lack of) is concerned, I think the senior players need to take some of the responsibility as well. And without taking anything away from the stand-in captains, the lack of continuity in that role can't help much.
Ever the optimist, I think it says something about the team that we were blown away in the 2nd half by a way better team and yet the loss came down to a last minute penalty and two minutes of dumb play from our forwards.
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@victor-meldrew said in The Top Two Inches:
As far as on-field management (or lack of) is concerned, I think the senior players need to take some of the responsibility as well. And without taking anything away from the stand-in captains, the lack of continuity in that role can't help much.
Ever the optimist, I think it says something about the team that we were blown away in the 2nd half by a way better team and yet the loss came down to a last minute penalty and two minutes of dumb play from our forwards.
Blown away? Minutes 40 to 60 were poor, given. 11 unanswered points. A lot of that was due to impatience and not winning the territory battle. Every time NZ looked like getting a foothold in Bok territory, they would turnover the ball (breakdown and lineout). NZ lost the big moments and the momentum in the 2nd half. There were ample opportunities in the last 20 mins of 2nd half to build pressure.
As it was, ABs did manage to force three penalties to retake the lead. Maybe the post-match debrief will hammer into them the importance of taking the points from penalties against Boks to create scoreboard pressure. The penalty before half time was a big moment as going in at halftime 9 points behind rather than 6 points is psychologically different (more than a converted try).
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There feels to me to be more angst at refereeing these days and more talk of unconscious bias leading to 50/50 calls going against teams. I seem to recall the Oz GAGR forum curating videos uncovering AB skulduggery in the past (lots of yellow circles), and I'm sure there was a NZ one (or two) after 2007. This mantle has been picked up by the South Africans (with a large dollop of help from Jaco Johan) who now seem to be making videos showing how the Boks are the victims of a global conspiracy by refs. I recall some Irish ref-bashing in the past, but this seems to have died down now that they've managed to beat NZ a couple of times.
So my questions are, do you feel your team is more penalised than other teams? And if so, do you think there is a reason why? Or is it more to do with your own team's inadequacies?
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@victor-meldrew said in The Top Two Inches:
@l_n_p said in The Top Two Inches:
@mrdenmore said in The Top Two Inches:
again raises fresh questions about the intellect of the Foster regime. What do others think?
Fozzie only just did "Selection 101" last off-season, give him a break.
My honest opinion?
- Both pre-McCaw 2008+ leadership version and post-McCaw the AB's have often looked a bit mentally fragile under Woodward's TCUP (Think Clearly Under Pressure) mode.
- Take the 3 ... just take it!
I saw glimpses of improved mental toughness in the first Boks' game and they weathered the pressure pretty well last Saturday until the last 5 minutes - which were a shocker.
I hope they are looking like the pre-2008 model rather than the post 2016 model..
I've beaten this drum a lot in the past, but I can't help but think that if TJP wasn't the halfback in those closing stages maybe we would have had a better outcome. I must say that I was very concerned when I saw TJ doing a lot of talking in that huddle right before the final scrum.
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@mrdenmore said in The Top Two Inches:
Not sure whether anyone else has already posted this, but there are some interesting and provocative observations from Mark Reason in this article from Stuff.
Among them is the lack of nous the All Blacks’ on-field brains trust showed in the dying minute of that second test against South Africa - specifically their failure to slow the set-up of that half-way scrum and their ill-advised strategy of the pick and gos to run down the clock - against a ref who was always looking to penalise the attacking side.
Also, he points out their failure to learn from the Wallabies game against the Boks under the same referee and their insistence on playing a flat attack that just left BB time after time shuffling the ball out sideways to some hapless forward who was immediately flattened by one of the Bok loonies.
The Wallabies, under Rennie’s direction, played much smarter against South Africa in the Rugby Championship, standing deeper on attack and keeping the Bok lineout guessing with constantly changing tactics - all of which again raises fresh questions about the intellect of the Foster regime. What do others think?
I agree with a few of those point but im not sure about keeping it tight in the dying minutes, thats pretty common practice...we could have done it better...and i would expect an AB team to do it better but what are the other options? go wide where we'd been getting turned over all night? kick it back to them and give them the ball and a chance to win? the only other option as i see it was to bang it into the corner and make them win a lineout and then come 100m...but our kicking for territory had been rought...
BUT...im not an all black captain so i guess i have the luxury of expecting one to come up with something i cant think of, in general i do agree we are showing a lack of leadership....reminds me of 2003 RWC...how we just kept trying the same things and the aussies were reading it like a book and every time we were under our posts...silence form the leaders except marshall and god know what shit he was spouting
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@junior said in The Top Two Inches:
@victor-meldrew said in The Top Two Inches:
@l_n_p said in The Top Two Inches:
@mrdenmore said in The Top Two Inches:
again raises fresh questions about the intellect of the Foster regime. What do others think?
Fozzie only just did "Selection 101" last off-season, give him a break.
My honest opinion?
- Both pre-McCaw 2008+ leadership version and post-McCaw the AB's have often looked a bit mentally fragile under Woodward's TCUP (Think Clearly Under Pressure) mode.
- Take the 3 ... just take it!
I saw glimpses of improved mental toughness in the first Boks' game and they weathered the pressure pretty well last Saturday until the last 5 minutes - which were a shocker.
I hope they are looking like the pre-2008 model rather than the post 2016 model..
I've beaten this drum a lot in the past, but I can't help but think that if TJP wasn't the halfback in those closing stages maybe we would have had a better outcome. I must say that I was very concerned when I saw TJ doing a lot of talking in that huddle right before the final scrum.
Aside from the Haka, I'm not sure what TJP brings to the table for the ABs. It isn't like he uses his size to snipe around the fringe to keep defences from drifting.
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@stodders said in The Top Two Inches:
There feels to me to be more angst at refereeing these days and more talk of unconscious bias leading to 50/50 calls going against teams. I seem to recall the Oz GAGR forum curating videos uncovering AB skulduggery in the past (lots of yellow circles), and I'm sure there was a NZ one (or two) after 2007. This mantle has been picked up by the South Africans (with a large dollop of help from Jaco Johan) who now seem to be making videos showing how the Boks are the victims of a global conspiracy by refs. I recall some Irish ref-bashing in the past, but this seems to have died down now that they've managed to beat NZ a couple of times.
So my questions are, do you feel your team is more penalised than other teams? And if so, do you think there is a reason why? Or is it more to do with your own team's inadequacies?
I think not all penalties given in a game have the same impact. Some can really change the momentum and a couple in a row can lead to crucial points that can change a game big time. People say it evens out in the end, but the fact is it doesn't within 80 minutes - often one team will benefit more from calls going their way at crucial moments in the match.
I don't for a second believe there is any conspiracy, or that any one team is more often unfairly penalised, but sometimes your team does get pretty screwed by refereeing mistakes, so fans feel aggrieved.
It's a fast dynamic sport though, I'd say the hardest sport in the world to officiate, and I've come to accept that refs are going to make a handful of mistakes every game. I used to get really riled up at the injustice of it all, but these days I tend to not be too fazed. It's part of the game, and the best teams need the mental toughness to overcome things that don't go their way - the ABs under Richie post 2007 were superb at not letting bad calls throw them off their game.
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@mrdenmore said in The Top Two Inches:
.. fresh questions about the intellect of the Foster regime.
Interesting concept. I note Foster said - unless I am imagining this -that he wanted to develop players who could think and react to changing game plans.
Hmm.
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@stodders I think TJP used to a bit more? Maybe he has trouble now with the overall speed of play, or is spending too much time thinking as a playmaker?
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@catogrande said in The Top Two Inches:
Without going into the actual facts of the game (allowable, even expected under Fern rules), if the source material is Reason you are already starting from a position that the ABs are wrong.
And no, I haven't read the article either
this was not his worst article.
He even wasn't as bitter as cactus juice, well, mostly. -
@nostrildamus said in The Top Two Inches:
@stodders I think TJP used to a bit more? Maybe he has trouble now with the overall speed of play, or is spending too much time thinking as a playmaker?
His pass has gone from adequate to rubbish - to the extent that bloody Brad Weber has a more accurate and crisp pass and is seen as a step up!
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@junior said in The Top Two Inches:
@victor-meldrew said in The Top Two Inches:
@l_n_p said in The Top Two Inches:
@mrdenmore said in The Top Two Inches:
again raises fresh questions about the intellect of the Foster regime. What do others think?
Fozzie only just did "Selection 101" last off-season, give him a break.
My honest opinion?
- Both pre-McCaw 2008+ leadership version and post-McCaw the AB's have often looked a bit mentally fragile under Woodward's TCUP (Think Clearly Under Pressure) mode.
- Take the 3 ... just take it!
I saw glimpses of improved mental toughness in the first Boks' game and they weathered the pressure pretty well last Saturday until the last 5 minutes - which were a shocker.
I hope they are looking like the pre-2008 model rather than the post 2016 model..
I've beaten this drum a lot in the past, but I can't help but think that if TJP wasn't the halfback in those closing stages maybe we would have had a better outcome. I must say that I was very concerned when I saw TJ doing a lot of talking in that huddle right before the final scrum.
TJP worked the blind well, which was a good tactical move. But could soon be facing charges of attempted manslaughter.
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@pakman said in The Top Two Inches:
@junior said in The Top Two Inches:
@victor-meldrew said in The Top Two Inches:
@l_n_p said in The Top Two Inches:
@mrdenmore said in The Top Two Inches:
again raises fresh questions about the intellect of the Foster regime. What do others think?
Fozzie only just did "Selection 101" last off-season, give him a break.
My honest opinion?
- Both pre-McCaw 2008+ leadership version and post-McCaw the AB's have often looked a bit mentally fragile under Woodward's TCUP (Think Clearly Under Pressure) mode.
- Take the 3 ... just take it!
I saw glimpses of improved mental toughness in the first Boks' game and they weathered the pressure pretty well last Saturday until the last 5 minutes - which were a shocker.
I hope they are looking like the pre-2008 model rather than the post 2016 model..
I've beaten this drum a lot in the past, but I can't help but think that if TJP wasn't the halfback in those closing stages maybe we would have had a better outcome. I must say that I was very concerned when I saw TJ doing a lot of talking in that huddle right before the final scrum.
TJP worked the blind well, which was a good tactical move. But could soon be facing charges of attempted manslaughter.
Manslaughter? Who was his victim?
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@stodders said in The Top Two Inches:
@junior said in The Top Two Inches:
@victor-meldrew said in The Top Two Inches:
@l_n_p said in The Top Two Inches:
@mrdenmore said in The Top Two Inches:
again raises fresh questions about the intellect of the Foster regime. What do others think?
Fozzie only just did "Selection 101" last off-season, give him a break.
My honest opinion?
- Both pre-McCaw 2008+ leadership version and post-McCaw the AB's have often looked a bit mentally fragile under Woodward's TCUP (Think Clearly Under Pressure) mode.
- Take the 3 ... just take it!
I saw glimpses of improved mental toughness in the first Boks' game and they weathered the pressure pretty well last Saturday until the last 5 minutes - which were a shocker.
I hope they are looking like the pre-2008 model rather than the post 2016 model..
I've beaten this drum a lot in the past, but I can't help but think that if TJP wasn't the halfback in those closing stages maybe we would have had a better outcome. I must say that I was very concerned when I saw TJ doing a lot of talking in that huddle right before the final scrum.
Aside from the Haka, I'm not sure what TJP brings to the table for the ABs.
Experience? If so, it didn't seem to count for much on Saturday (but perhaps I'm being unfair)
It isn't like he uses his size to snipe around the fringe to keep defences from drifting.
Seemed to me Brad Weber was way more effective around the fringe.
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@victor-meldrew said in The Top Two Inches:
@stodders said in The Top Two Inches:
@junior said in The Top Two Inches:
@victor-meldrew said in The Top Two Inches:
@l_n_p said in The Top Two Inches:
@mrdenmore said in The Top Two Inches:
again raises fresh questions about the intellect of the Foster regime. What do others think?
Fozzie only just did "Selection 101" last off-season, give him a break.
My honest opinion?
- Both pre-McCaw 2008+ leadership version and post-McCaw the AB's have often looked a bit mentally fragile under Woodward's TCUP (Think Clearly Under Pressure) mode.
- Take the 3 ... just take it!
I saw glimpses of improved mental toughness in the first Boks' game and they weathered the pressure pretty well last Saturday until the last 5 minutes - which were a shocker.
I hope they are looking like the pre-2008 model rather than the post 2016 model..
I've beaten this drum a lot in the past, but I can't help but think that if TJP wasn't the halfback in those closing stages maybe we would have had a better outcome. I must say that I was very concerned when I saw TJ doing a lot of talking in that huddle right before the final scrum.
Aside from the Haka, I'm not sure what TJP brings to the table for the ABs.
Experience? If so, it didn't seem to count for much on Saturday (but perhaps I'm being unfair)
It isn't like he uses his size to snipe around the fringe to keep defences from drifting.
Seemed to me Brad Weber was way more effective around the fringe.
I can't think of many tier 1 nations that TJP would make the squad for. I guess he is valuable in a world cup squad because he could play 10 at a push if there was an injury crisis. He's also capable of scoring some great tries and his support play is generally good. But I'm not sure what he's supposed to add. He doesn't seem to calm things down, which as one of the leadership group he's supposed to.
