Discussion of AB 9s. Best ever All Blacks Half Back?
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@shark said in Discussion of AB 9s. Best ever All Blacks Half Back?:
I give Graeme Bachop a little more credit. Fantastic passer but he was also dangerous sniping around the scrum etc. He fought his way back into Laurie's favour after Mains tried almost everybody else.
I was always a fan of Bachop, but I recall him being maligned as an AB 9. He could be erratic, but on his day very good. 95 WC his best body of work I reckon.
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@kiwimurph said in Discussion of AB 9s. Best ever All Blacks Half Back?:
Peak Piri is a level above Perenara and Cowan.
He was a wonderful bench 9 too.
Weepu could have been one of the greats imho. Unfortunately he was lazy and addicted to KFC.
1995 Bachop was brilliant. Then he pissed off to Japan.
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@rancid-schnitzel said in Discussion of AB 9s. Best ever All Blacks Half Back?:
@kiwimurph said in Discussion of AB 9s. Best ever All Blacks Half Back?:
Peak Piri is a level above Perenara and Cowan.
He was a wonderful bench 9 too.
Weepu could have been one of the greats imho. Unfortunately he was lazy and addicted to KFC.
1995 Bachop was brilliant. Then he pissed off to Japan.
Played for them too. Those old rules were fucking stupid.
Until Smith, I would have said that Bachop was the best passing 9 I have seen actually play.
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@gt12 said in Discussion of AB 9s. Best ever All Blacks Half Back?:
@rancid-schnitzel said in Discussion of AB 9s. Best ever All Blacks Half Back?:
@kiwimurph said in Discussion of AB 9s. Best ever All Blacks Half Back?:
Peak Piri is a level above Perenara and Cowan.
He was a wonderful bench 9 too.
Weepu could have been one of the greats imho. Unfortunately he was lazy and addicted to KFC.
1995 Bachop was brilliant. Then he pissed off to Japan.
Played for them too. Those old rules were fucking stupid.
Until Smith, I would have said that Bachop was the best passing 9 I have seen actually play.
Me too.
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If selecting my team of all the halfbacks I've seen play Smith would start and Piri would be on the bench. But if Smith was injured Bachop would start with Piri on the bench. If Piri is injured or got lost coming back from KFC then TKB for the bench.
I saw Trapper play, but not enough to give him an accurate rating so I only ever rate from Kirk onwards. Otherwise, Jimmy Mill the Magpies/AB halfback from the Invincibles would have to be my pick.
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@nepia said in Discussion of AB 9s. Best ever All Blacks Half Back?:
If selecting my team of all the halfbacks I've seen play Smith would start and Piri would be on the bench. But if Smith was injured Bachop would start with Piri on the bench. If Piri is injured or got lost coming back from KFC then TKB for the bench.
I saw Trapper play, but not enough to give him an accurate rating so I only ever rate from Kirk onwards. Otherwise, Jimmy Mill the Magpies/AB halfback from the Invincibles would have to be my pick.
Loveridge was highly regarded at the time but I can't remember him well enough to rate him based on seeing him play. He always seemed to be very efficient
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@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe 2 Eden Park 14th Aug:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe 2 Eden Park 14th Aug:
For me, Smith has probably the best pass, bar none.
Some of those passes in traffic to find the man are boner material!
He has a good running game, is a good defender.
Prior to him we went for the 4th loosie type 9 more often than not, but his game allowed us to go to another level.
Yeah his passing is on another level to anything I can remember
Super Sid was great for his era ,but it seemed he had to wind it up a bit more before he let it go, didn’t have the accuracy and instant pop like smith
Laidlaw was before my time but I did see Going in action. Compared to Smith I imagine they would have been playing with a heavier probably wetleather ball which may have resulted in different passing actions
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@nevorian said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe 2 Eden Park 14th Aug:
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe 2 Eden Park 14th Aug:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe 2 Eden Park 14th Aug:
For me, Smith has probably the best pass, bar none.
Some of those passes in traffic to find the man are boner material!
He has a good running game, is a good defender.
Prior to him we went for the 4th loosie type 9 more often than not, but his game allowed us to go to another level.
Yeah his passing is on another level to anything I can remember
Super Sid was great for his era ,but it seemed he had to wind it up a bit more before he let it go, didn’t have the accuracy and instant pop like smith
Laidlaw was before my time but I did see Going in action. Compared to Smith I imagine they would have been playing with a heavier probably wetleather ball which may have resulted in different passing actions
Yeah those balls used to soak up the water like a sponge and get heavy , and I’m not sure if they were fatter and rounder because everything seems bigger when your a kid
but going off memory they seemed it ,Loveridge was a nice passing halfback too , forgot about him
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@crucial said in Discussion of AB 9s. Best ever All Blacks Half Back?:
Sid Going - as a running halfback he would have been dynamite on these manicured fields. Def up there is the discussions of 'best'
Sid was my hero as a kid. But he was a poor passer. Or at least in one old game I watched.
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@kiwiinmelb Yes, Loveridge was a classy all round halfback. Another who Smith reminded me of as he developed was Bachop. He was quick to get to the ball and quick to get it away.
Going wasn’t much of a passer at all, had quite a short pass, but a handful with ball in hand. Laidlaw was a fine passer and a solid player overall.
I’d rate Smith as being as good as anyone and he continues to build his game.
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In my lifetime:
1 - Aaron Smith
2 - Graeme Bachop
3 - Justin Marshall
4 - David Kirk
5 - Dan Carter 😎——————-
Next rung:
1 - Dave Loveridge
2 - Byron Kelleher
3 - Piri Weepu
4 - TJ Perenara——————-
Everyone else (no order, just for fun)
Jimmy Cowan, Steve Devine, Brendon Leonard, Junior Tonu’u, Andy Ellis, Tawera Kerr-Barlow, Mark Robinson, Mark Donaldson, Kevin Senio, Mitch Drummond, Brad Weber, Andrew DonaldSid only played a couple of tests in my lifetime.
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I’ll add, Stu Forster had a lovely passing game, would obviously struggle size wise in the modern game
Always have, always will rate smith as one of if not the best
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@kiwiwomble said in Discussion of AB 9s. Best ever All Blacks Half Back?:
I’ll add, Stu Forster had a lovely passing game, would obviously struggle size wise in the modern game
Always have, always will rate smith as one of if not the best
I think he has something against Hawkes Bay/Otago halfbacks as he didn't mention Lee either. Not sure how Weber slipped through though.
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@beardie I was pretty young , and I might be getting going and laidlaw a little mixed up ,
I remember going having that funky reverse pass though
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@kiwiinmelb That’s right, worked well with his loosies with those little passes. He was a tricky player to contain, a slippery runner with a low centre of gravity, and while he was being watched closely he opened up options for other players.
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@beardie said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe 2 Eden Park 14th Aug:
@kiwiinmelb That’s right, worked well with his loosies with those little passes. He was a tricky player to contain, a slippery runner with a low centre of gravity, and while he was being watched closely he opened up options for other players.
And a tough bugger , in the days when throwing punches was accepted where warranted , can remember him going straight into packs and belting opposition forwards when he saw something he didn’t like
Probably gets the award for the toughest halfback we have ever had .
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@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe 2 Eden Park 14th Aug:
@beardie said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe 2 Eden Park 14th Aug:
@kiwiinmelb That’s right, worked well with his loosies with those little passes. He was a tricky player to contain, a slippery runner with a low centre of gravity, and while he was being watched closely he opened up options for other players.
And a tough bugger , in the days when throwing punches was accepted where warranted , can remember him going straight into packs and belting opposition forwards when he saw something he didn’t like
Probably gets the award for the toughest halfback we have ever had .
I'd agree. Hard as nails. He normally avoided using the fists, maybe due to his being a devout Mormon, but Terry McLean tells the story of an opposition forward kneeing kim in the face and Sid meting out serious punishment to said forward with "a series of cold, hard, scientific, effective and methodical punches"
His passing wasn't great - wet ball or not. When he was dropped in the '77 Lions series for Lyn Davis, McLean waggishly noted the AB inside backs were in a state of shock as they were totally unused to a fast pass from an AB halfback..
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@kiwiwomble said in Discussion of AB 9s. Best ever All Blacks Half Back?:
I’ll add, Stu Forster had a lovely passing game, would obviously struggle size wise in the modern game
Always have, always will rate smith as one of if not the best
Forster, yeah. The old memory couldn’t remember them all. I’d have him in the third category but probably higher than most of them.
