All Blacks vs Fiji 2
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@rancid-schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@gt12 said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@rancid-schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
I should imagine we said the same about Tana and Ma'a.
Who said Ma’a would be a better winger? Was it Winger?
If we go back to 2005, when I first joined, I think there was still some discussion about Ma'a being better on the wing because he couldn't distribute, and I imagine that such discussions would have been happening beforehand (like 2003).
Can’t recall that. A lot of talk about how shit he apparently was and maybe even how he should got to league. At the end of the day, he broke through as a 13 and was selected as a 13 for the ABs. He didn’t have a breakthrough season at wing then get shifted to 13.
His first season for the Canes was at wing. I recall bumping into him that season on Courtnay Place and having had a few told him he would be an AB that season. IIRC he made the ABs as a wing/utility first but rarely played. Wiki says he debuted at centre so that shows how good my memory is
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@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
I should imagine we said the same about Tana and Ma'a.
The same was also said about Caleb Ralph.
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@canefan said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@rancid-schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@gt12 said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@rancid-schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
I should imagine we said the same about Tana and Ma'a.
Who said Ma’a would be a better winger? Was it Winger?
If we go back to 2005, when I first joined, I think there was still some discussion about Ma'a being better on the wing because he couldn't distribute, and I imagine that such discussions would have been happening beforehand (like 2003).
Can’t recall that. A lot of talk about how shit he apparently was and maybe even how he should got to league. At the end of the day, he broke through as a 13 and was selected as a 13 for the ABs. He didn’t have a breakthrough season at wing then get shifted to 13.
His first season for the Canes was at wing. I recall bumping into him that season on Courtnay Place and having had a few told him he would be an AB that season. IIRC he made the ABs as a wing/utility first but rarely played. Wiki says he debuted at centre so that shows how good my memory is
His first season was 2003 wasn’t it? He was definitely a 13 for the bulk of it and was selected there for the ABs.
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@rancid-schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@canefan said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@rancid-schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@gt12 said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@rancid-schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
I should imagine we said the same about Tana and Ma'a.
Who said Ma’a would be a better winger? Was it Winger?
If we go back to 2005, when I first joined, I think there was still some discussion about Ma'a being better on the wing because he couldn't distribute, and I imagine that such discussions would have been happening beforehand (like 2003).
Can’t recall that. A lot of talk about how shit he apparently was and maybe even how he should got to league. At the end of the day, he broke through as a 13 and was selected as a 13 for the ABs. He didn’t have a breakthrough season at wing then get shifted to 13.
His first season for the Canes was at wing. I recall bumping into him that season on Courtnay Place and having had a few told him he would be an AB that season. IIRC he made the ABs as a wing/utility first but rarely played. Wiki says he debuted at centre so that shows how good my memory is
His first season was 2003 wasn’t it? He was definitely a 13 for the bulk of it and was selected there for the ABs.
Yeah 2003. I just seem to remember him coming on as a reserve for the ABs a few times and playing wing. I can't be bothered digging deep enough to confirm or deny
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@canefan said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@rancid-schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@gt12 said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@rancid-schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
I should imagine we said the same about Tana and Ma'a.
Who said Ma’a would be a better winger? Was it Winger?
If we go back to 2005, when I first joined, I think there was still some discussion about Ma'a being better on the wing because he couldn't distribute, and I imagine that such discussions would have been happening beforehand (like 2003).
Can’t recall that. A lot of talk about how shit he apparently was and maybe even how he should got to league. At the end of the day, he broke through as a 13 and was selected as a 13 for the ABs. He didn’t have a breakthrough season at wing then get shifted to 13.
His first season for the Canes was at wing. I recall bumping into him that season on Courtnay Place and having had a few told him he would be an AB that season. IIRC he made the ABs as a wing/utility first but rarely played. Wiki says he debuted at centre so that shows how good my memory is
He debuted in the England loss in Wellington at 13 outside Tana. I know because I was there when Justin Marshall looked the wrong way.
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@gt12 said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@canefan said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@rancid-schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@gt12 said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@rancid-schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
I should imagine we said the same about Tana and Ma'a.
Who said Ma’a would be a better winger? Was it Winger?
If we go back to 2005, when I first joined, I think there was still some discussion about Ma'a being better on the wing because he couldn't distribute, and I imagine that such discussions would have been happening beforehand (like 2003).
Can’t recall that. A lot of talk about how shit he apparently was and maybe even how he should got to league. At the end of the day, he broke through as a 13 and was selected as a 13 for the ABs. He didn’t have a breakthrough season at wing then get shifted to 13.
His first season for the Canes was at wing. I recall bumping into him that season on Courtnay Place and having had a few told him he would be an AB that season. IIRC he made the ABs as a wing/utility first but rarely played. Wiki says he debuted at centre so that shows how good my memory is
He played in the England loss in Wellington at 13 outside Tana. I know because I was there when Justin Marshall looked the wrong way.
I was at that game. Caleb Ralph was average and our scrum couldn't push back a 7 man English pack
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@canefan said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@gt12 said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@canefan said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@rancid-schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@gt12 said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@rancid-schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
I should imagine we said the same about Tana and Ma'a.
Who said Ma’a would be a better winger? Was it Winger?
If we go back to 2005, when I first joined, I think there was still some discussion about Ma'a being better on the wing because he couldn't distribute, and I imagine that such discussions would have been happening beforehand (like 2003).
Can’t recall that. A lot of talk about how shit he apparently was and maybe even how he should got to league. At the end of the day, he broke through as a 13 and was selected as a 13 for the ABs. He didn’t have a breakthrough season at wing then get shifted to 13.
His first season for the Canes was at wing. I recall bumping into him that season on Courtnay Place and having had a few told him he would be an AB that season. IIRC he made the ABs as a wing/utility first but rarely played. Wiki says he debuted at centre so that shows how good my memory is
He played in the England loss in Wellington at 13 outside Tana. I know because I was there when Justin Marshall looked the wrong way.
I was at that game. Caleb Ralph was average and our scrum couldn't push back a 7 man English pack
I think it was 6 wasn’t it? 2 of them were sent. Poms bragged about it for years.
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@crazy-horse said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
I should imagine we said the same about Tana and Ma'a.
The same was also said about Caleb Ralph.
So 66% chance then? In fairness to Caleb, he wasn't much of a winger either.
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@crazy-horse said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
Numbers on backs/positions are becoming blurred. I don't think it matters as much any more what 'position' a player is. How often do we see the backs lined up in the traditional 9,10, 12,13,15,11 or 14 way? Foster and co seem to be taking the mixing of roles up another level.
Are Foster and Co pioneering “Total Rugby” then?
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@canefan said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@gt12 said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@canefan said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@rancid-schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@gt12 said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@rancid-schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
I should imagine we said the same about Tana and Ma'a.
Who said Ma’a would be a better winger? Was it Winger?
If we go back to 2005, when I first joined, I think there was still some discussion about Ma'a being better on the wing because he couldn't distribute, and I imagine that such discussions would have been happening beforehand (like 2003).
Can’t recall that. A lot of talk about how shit he apparently was and maybe even how he should got to league. At the end of the day, he broke through as a 13 and was selected as a 13 for the ABs. He didn’t have a breakthrough season at wing then get shifted to 13.
His first season for the Canes was at wing. I recall bumping into him that season on Courtnay Place and having had a few told him he would be an AB that season. IIRC he made the ABs as a wing/utility first but rarely played. Wiki says he debuted at centre so that shows how good my memory is
He played in the England loss in Wellington at 13 outside Tana. I know because I was there when Justin Marshall looked the wrong way.
I was at that game. Caleb Ralph was average and our scrum couldn't push back a 7 man English pack
The myth of the 7 man scrum ...
(BTW wasn't it 6?)
We won the penalty. Rodders tapped and was tackled short of the line by an offside player = penalty try not awarded. Rodders penalised instead.
We scored but ref bottled it.
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@gt12 said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@canefan said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@rancid-schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@gt12 said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@rancid-schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
I should imagine we said the same about Tana and Ma'a.
Who said Ma’a would be a better winger? Was it Winger?
If we go back to 2005, when I first joined, I think there was still some discussion about Ma'a being better on the wing because he couldn't distribute, and I imagine that such discussions would have been happening beforehand (like 2003).
Can’t recall that. A lot of talk about how shit he apparently was and maybe even how he should got to league. At the end of the day, he broke through as a 13 and was selected as a 13 for the ABs. He didn’t have a breakthrough season at wing then get shifted to 13.
His first season for the Canes was at wing. I recall bumping into him that season on Courtnay Place and having had a few told him he would be an AB that season. IIRC he made the ABs as a wing/utility first but rarely played. Wiki says he debuted at centre so that shows how good my memory is
He debuted in the England loss in Wellington at 13 outside Tana. I know because I was there when Justin Marshall looked the wrong way.
Watching that now, I never realized how bad Justin Marshal's passing was, he was just spitting it all over the place
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@darren said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
Watching that now, I never realized how bad Justin Marshal's passing was, he was just spitting it all over the place
Go back and watch the 1996 season when Marshall's passing was bloody good. The quality and accuracy of his passing steadily declined from early in his career.
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@bovidae said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@darren said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
Watching that now, I never realized how bad Justin Marshal's passing was, he was just spitting it all over the place
Go back and watch the 1996 season when Marshall's passing was bloody good. The quality and accuracy of his passing steadily declined from early in his career.
Really? Was it ever good?
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@booboo It was never Smith-like but as good as other AB halfbacks since that time. But as I said, only at the very start of his career. I watched the 1996 SA series again recently. I've never had Meg anywhere near my all-time AB teams though.
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@bovidae said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@booboo It was never Smith-like but as good as other AB halfbacks since that time. But as I said, only at the very start of his career. I watched the 1996 SA series again recently. I've never had Meg anywhere near my all-time AB teams though.
Interesting. I wonder if it declined at the same time as the achilles injury.
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@canefan said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@gt12 said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@canefan said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@rancid-schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@gt12 said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@rancid-schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
I should imagine we said the same about Tana and Ma'a.
Who said Ma’a would be a better winger? Was it Winger?
If we go back to 2005, when I first joined, I think there was still some discussion about Ma'a being better on the wing because he couldn't distribute, and I imagine that such discussions would have been happening beforehand (like 2003).
Can’t recall that. A lot of talk about how shit he apparently was and maybe even how he should got to league. At the end of the day, he broke through as a 13 and was selected as a 13 for the ABs. He didn’t have a breakthrough season at wing then get shifted to 13.
His first season for the Canes was at wing. I recall bumping into him that season on Courtnay Place and having had a few told him he would be an AB that season. IIRC he made the ABs as a wing/utility first but rarely played. Wiki says he debuted at centre so that shows how good my memory is
He played in the England loss in Wellington at 13 outside Tana. I know because I was there when Justin Marshall looked the wrong way.
I was at that game. Caleb Ralph was average and our scrum couldn't push back a 7 man English pack
First statement correct. Second not.
I haven't watched this for years as that scrum sequence and the reffing annoyed me so much. Added to that one of my favourite players copped a load of unwarranted shit because of it.
First scrum with 6 and England just walked around and turned it 180. Ref blows and calls reset. Second scrum they flop down immediately and ref calls reset again. Third time they stand up. Reset again. Fourth, he finally blows a penalty. No wonder Rodders had a crack at the line. Then, he was tackled by two offside players and got the ball on the line as his right to place it forward.
I know that reffing management around these situations has changed since then but these day we would expect a warning on the screw, another card on the flop and a PT on the stand up. TMO should have picked up the 9 and 6 not retreating and to me it was clear he was within his rights to place it forward.As for Meg I'm surprised that Los didn't give him shit for all the passes he had to catch at head level or higher. Also when he does his hammy he spends ages at the next ruck clutching his leg instead of clearing the ball, tries to wave off the sideline that he will play on then next moment he can't even walk and does an impression of Mark Lundy being carried off. It just all looks so 'look at me'
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@crucial said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@canefan said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@gt12 said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@canefan said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@rancid-schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@gt12 said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@rancid-schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
I should imagine we said the same about Tana and Ma'a.
Who said Ma’a would be a better winger? Was it Winger?
If we go back to 2005, when I first joined, I think there was still some discussion about Ma'a being better on the wing because he couldn't distribute, and I imagine that such discussions would have been happening beforehand (like 2003).
Can’t recall that. A lot of talk about how shit he apparently was and maybe even how he should got to league. At the end of the day, he broke through as a 13 and was selected as a 13 for the ABs. He didn’t have a breakthrough season at wing then get shifted to 13.
His first season for the Canes was at wing. I recall bumping into him that season on Courtnay Place and having had a few told him he would be an AB that season. IIRC he made the ABs as a wing/utility first but rarely played. Wiki says he debuted at centre so that shows how good my memory is
He played in the England loss in Wellington at 13 outside Tana. I know because I was there when Justin Marshall looked the wrong way.
I was at that game. Caleb Ralph was average and our scrum couldn't push back a 7 man English pack
First statement correct. Second not.
I haven't watched this for years as that scrum sequence and the reffing annoyed me so much. Added to that one of my favourite players copped a load of unwarranted shit because of it.
First scrum with 6 and England just walked around and turned it 180. Ref blows and calls reset. Second scrum they flop down immediately and ref calls reset again. Third time they stand up. Reset again. Fourth, he finally blows a penalty. No wonder Rodders had a crack at the line. Then, he was tackled by two offside players and got the ball on the line as his right to place it forward.
I know that reffing management around these situations has changed since then but these day we would expect a warning on the screw, another card on the flop and a PT on the stand up. TMO should have picked up the 9 and 6 not retreating and to me it was clear he was within his rights to place it forward.Excellent summary, thanks!!
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On that 2003 England test, it was Nonu, Rokocoko and Mils debut test.
Rodders and Mealamu’s second, Steve Devine’s third (he played half the game) and Ali Williams fourth test.
We had Carter and Brad Thorn on the bench who hadn’t played for the ABs (and both didn’t get on the field).
Anton Oliver’s first test back since he lost the captaincy after the 01 EOYT.
Stuff
