Cricket - best ever, trivia etc
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@MN5 said in Modern batting averages:
@Catogrande said in Modern batting averages:
@MN5 said in Modern batting averages:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Modern batting averages:
Anyone mentioned David Gower as a great batsman to watch? All class.
Very good record and made it look easy. One of those guys who ‘caressed’ the ball where he wanted it to go.
Hmm, that would mean he often wanted to caress it straight into Jeff Dujon’s Gloves.
Still the 4th highest run scorer in English cricket history.
Like any batsman he had his peaks and troughs, like Mark Waugh he often got called ‘careless’ cos at his best he did make it look so easy
The M Waugh comparison is apt. He often didn’t seem to give a shit. Particularly if there was sunbathing to be had.
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@MN5 said in Modern batting averages:
@NTA said in Modern batting averages:
If Hayden was a kiwi, he'd be an all-time, irrefutable legend of the game, selected in any world XI directly behind Bradman and Hadlee.
He walks into an all time Aussie team too as it is. Sure he plundered 380 against Zimbabwe. So what ? He also scored against any and everyone else. I also think people underestimate how tough it is to average that much when your entire career is spent opening too.
He also had a bit of that Richards aura about him.
Cliff Richards?
Don’t ever mention the Great One in the same sentence as Hayden
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@ACT-Crusader lol. You brought up The Young Ones with that post
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@MN5 said in Modern batting averages:
@Catogrande said in Modern batting averages:
@MN5 said in Modern batting averages:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Modern batting averages:
Anyone mentioned David Gower as a great batsman to watch? All class.
Very good record and made it look easy. One of those guys who ‘caressed’ the ball where he wanted it to go.
Hmm, that would mean he often wanted to caress it straight into Jeff Dujon’s Gloves.
Still the 4th highest run scorer in English cricket history.
Like any batsman he had his peaks and troughs, like Mark Waugh he often got called ‘careless’ cos at his best he did make it look so easy
Don’t get me wrong, I loved watching him bat (and field before his shoulder problems). If there were reliable sex change procedures back in 1985 I would likely have had his children. But there was always a sense of what could have been if he’d just eliminated that waft outside off to tickle the ball straight behind.
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@ACT-Crusader said in Modern batting averages:
@MN5 said in Modern batting averages:
@NTA said in Modern batting averages:
If Hayden was a kiwi, he'd be an all-time, irrefutable legend of the game, selected in any world XI directly behind Bradman and Hadlee.
He walks into an all time Aussie team too as it is. Sure he plundered 380 against Zimbabwe. So what ? He also scored against any and everyone else. I also think people underestimate how tough it is to average that much when your entire career is spent opening too.
He also had a bit of that Richards aura about him.
Cliff Richards?
Don’t ever mention the Great One in the same sentence as Hayden
Who gets in ahead of him ?
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@No-Quarter "padded" because he managed to drag the career average kicking and screaming to 40 at the end didn't he?
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@mariner4life said in Modern batting averages:
@No-Quarter "padded" because he managed to drag the career average kicking and screaming to 40 at the end didn't he?
In his last innings if I remember right. Good on him, 40 is so much better than 39.....
Conversion rate was still pretty shite though. He also must have been a terrible bowler, in 111 tests he never turned the arm over once. Even Brendan Mccullum has a test wicket !
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@MN5 said in Modern batting averages:
@mariner4life said in Modern batting averages:
@No-Quarter "padded" because he managed to drag the career average kicking and screaming to 40 at the end didn't he?
In his last innings if I remember right. Good on him, 40 is so much better than 39.....
Conversion rate was still pretty shite though.
lets face facts, he was a bit shit. Stylish means fuck all if there are no runs involved.
Still, he's hardly alone in that era's batting lineup. We really were a park cricket team there for a while.
And it's entirely likely we will return to that when we lose this team. These are days to be savoured.
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@mariner4life said in Modern batting averages:
And it's entirely likely we will return to that when we lose this team. These are days to be savoured.
I think we're consistently producing more quality players though. We need about 1 international 'OK' player each year, and a standout every few years to have a competitive team. Given the size of the pyramid we have, I think we're starting to see that go as well as it can.
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@mariner4life said in Modern batting averages:
@MN5 said in Modern batting averages:
@mariner4life said in Modern batting averages:
@No-Quarter "padded" because he managed to drag the career average kicking and screaming to 40 at the end didn't he?
In his last innings if I remember right. Good on him, 40 is so much better than 39.....
Conversion rate was still pretty shite though.
lets face facts, he was a bit shit. Stylish means fuck all if there are no runs involved.
Still, he's hardly alone in that era's batting lineup. We really were a park cricket team there for a while.
And it's entirely likely we will return to that when we lose this team. These are days to be savoured.
I think that’s pretty harsh. An average of 40 over 111 tests is very good, especially given the amount of dogshit teammates he had in his career ( seriously, some of his contemporaries have embarrassing records ).
I think the style he had made him look a bit careless just like David Gower and Mark Waugh.
But I definitely agree that we need to make the most of this team because the next wave of donkeys could only be 4-5 years away.
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@nzzp said in Modern batting averages:
@mariner4life said in Modern batting averages:
And it's entirely likely we will return to that when we lose this team. These are days to be savoured.
I think we're consistently producing more quality players though. We need about 1 international 'OK' player each year, and a standout every few years to have a competitive team. Given the size of the pyramid we have, I think we're starting to see that go as well as it can.
I think this is right, early days I know but Jamieson looks likely to join what is far and away the best trio of fast bowlers we've ever had at the same time. Conway will be shoehorned into the test team either at the expense of Nicholls or when/if Taylor retires.
But fast forward a few years when KW ( especially ) Latham, Boult, Southee, Wagner, BJ, are all gone then we could potentially be in big trouble and struggle against the minnows again. .
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@MN5 said in Modern batting averages:
@mariner4life said in Modern batting averages:
@MN5 said in Modern batting averages:
@mariner4life said in Modern batting averages:
@No-Quarter "padded" because he managed to drag the career average kicking and screaming to 40 at the end didn't he?
In his last innings if I remember right. Good on him, 40 is so much better than 39.....
Conversion rate was still pretty shite though.
lets face facts, he was a bit shit. Stylish means fuck all if there are no runs involved.
Still, he's hardly alone in that era's batting lineup. We really were a park cricket team there for a while.
And it's entirely likely we will return to that when we lose this team. These are days to be savoured.
I think that’s pretty harsh. An average of 40 over 111 tests is very good, especially given the amount of dogshit teammates he had in his career ( seriously, some of his contemporaries have embarrassing records ).
I think the style he had made him look a bit careless just like David Gower and Mark Waugh.
But I definitely agree that we need to make the most of this team because the next wave of donkeys could only be 4-5 years away.
it is harsh, i get that, but
he played an enormous amount of tests, batting in the top order, and for most of it his average was below 40. he hit 9 hundreds, which is 8th all time for NZ, but he played 111 tests! And how many as skipper?
Even in NZ, i think he's no better than the Hall of Not Bad level
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@mariner4life said in Modern batting averages:
Even in NZ, i think he's no better than the Hall of Not Bad level
Hall of Tame
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@mariner4life said in Modern batting averages:
@MN5 said in Modern batting averages:
@mariner4life said in Modern batting averages:
@MN5 said in Modern batting averages:
@mariner4life said in Modern batting averages:
@No-Quarter "padded" because he managed to drag the career average kicking and screaming to 40 at the end didn't he?
In his last innings if I remember right. Good on him, 40 is so much better than 39.....
Conversion rate was still pretty shite though.
lets face facts, he was a bit shit. Stylish means fuck all if there are no runs involved.
Still, he's hardly alone in that era's batting lineup. We really were a park cricket team there for a while.
And it's entirely likely we will return to that when we lose this team. These are days to be savoured.
I think that’s pretty harsh. An average of 40 over 111 tests is very good, especially given the amount of dogshit teammates he had in his career ( seriously, some of his contemporaries have embarrassing records ).
I think the style he had made him look a bit careless just like David Gower and Mark Waugh.
But I definitely agree that we need to make the most of this team because the next wave of donkeys could only be 4-5 years away.
it is harsh, i get that, but
he played an enormous amount of tests, batting in the top order, and for most of it his average was below 40. he hit 9 hundreds, which is 8th all time for NZ, but he played 111 tests! And how many as skipper?
Even in NZ, i think he's no better than the Hall of Not Bad level
We're not Australia. 40 is a very good return for a kiwi. The fact he got it there indicates he got better as his career progressed unlike so many cricketers.
Yep, very few hundreds over that period but the average shows there were enough decent scores there. Plus he was extremely highly regarded as a skipper.
If we'd had this chat 10 years ago I'd have him in discussions for an all time XI. Obviously KW and Rossco keep him out now though.
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@mariner4life said in Modern batting averages:
@MN5 said in Modern batting averages:
discussions for an all time XI
over who?
Back then I would have had Jones and Crowe, now only the late MD makes it. Turner and Wright or Sutcliffe open.....but then would I pick Martin Donnelly ?
This is a good article in the other thread which you may have missed. I think my issue with the old boys who I never saw play was the fact they played fuck all tests......but Fleming did.....and our history isn't exactly full of genuine World Class performers.
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The most frustrating thing about Fleming was he never looked out of his depth even against the very best in the world. Where our other players barely looked like they could get bat on ball he looked comfortable playing some world class shots. Until he got to about 30 then he'd be out.
