Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November
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Aaron Smith is the 10th best halfback in the world!
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Sorry, this is my last one. David Havili is the best right winger in the world!
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@gt12 said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@junior said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@Chris-B said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@voodoo said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@mariner4life said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@voodoo said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@kpkanz said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@voodoo He had what one start against France? Where it was one of the best performances at 10 we've seen in years? Thats the only opportunity he got.
I remember even at the time people on this board after that game agreed Dmac showed more potential than Mounga. But then the dual playmaker system started and Dmac was set at fullback with the 10/15 combo with BB before he got injured in 2019.
I've had zero starts at 10 for the AB's , I dont need any more to know i shouldn't be playing there...😉
Look, I think he's probably a great guy. But I've just seen zilch that tells me he has the on-field temperament ro play 10 in a big game for us. He still puts his team under pressure with his sideways running, and I don't think he has the kicking game from hand nor the physique for 80mins at 10.
I honestly thought you were describing Richie M there
You mean "best 10 in the world Richie"???!!!
But yeah, I hear you.
I'll just leave this here.
If he is the world's best 10, then we really are in quite a dark period of world rugby
@Chris-B said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@voodoo said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@mariner4life said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@voodoo said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@kpkanz said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@voodoo He had what one start against France? Where it was one of the best performances at 10 we've seen in years? Thats the only opportunity he got.
I remember even at the time people on this board after that game agreed Dmac showed more potential than Mounga. But then the dual playmaker system started and Dmac was set at fullback with the 10/15 combo with BB before he got injured in 2019.
I've had zero starts at 10 for the AB's , I dont need any more to know i shouldn't be playing there...😉
Look, I think he's probably a great guy. But I've just seen zilch that tells me he has the on-field temperament ro play 10 in a big game for us. He still puts his team under pressure with his sideways running, and I don't think he has the kicking game from hand nor the physique for 80mins at 10.
I honestly thought you were describing Richie M there
You mean "best 10 in the world Richie"???!!!
But yeah, I hear you.
https://www.rugbypass.com/internationals/teams/new-zealand/players/richie-mounga/
I'll just leave this here.
Holy bahaha fuck. The Rugbypass RPI!
Which rates George Bridge as the second best winger in the world. James Lowe is number 1.
Which rates Ardie Savea as the best openside flanker in the world, despite him not playing there for, what, fuck, really, how long?
Which rates Scott Barrett as the second best 4 lock in the world, and that is behind Ezebeth who hasn't played at all!
Upvote cos of the hot chick, who is she ?
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@gt12 said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@junior said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@Chris-B said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@voodoo said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@mariner4life said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@voodoo said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@kpkanz said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@voodoo He had what one start against France? Where it was one of the best performances at 10 we've seen in years? Thats the only opportunity he got.
I remember even at the time people on this board after that game agreed Dmac showed more potential than Mounga. But then the dual playmaker system started and Dmac was set at fullback with the 10/15 combo with BB before he got injured in 2019.
I've had zero starts at 10 for the AB's , I dont need any more to know i shouldn't be playing there...😉
Look, I think he's probably a great guy. But I've just seen zilch that tells me he has the on-field temperament ro play 10 in a big game for us. He still puts his team under pressure with his sideways running, and I don't think he has the kicking game from hand nor the physique for 80mins at 10.
I honestly thought you were describing Richie M there
You mean "best 10 in the world Richie"???!!!
But yeah, I hear you.
I'll just leave this here.
If he is the world's best 10, then we really are in quite a dark period of world rugby
@Chris-B said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@voodoo said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@mariner4life said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@voodoo said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@kpkanz said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@voodoo He had what one start against France? Where it was one of the best performances at 10 we've seen in years? Thats the only opportunity he got.
I remember even at the time people on this board after that game agreed Dmac showed more potential than Mounga. But then the dual playmaker system started and Dmac was set at fullback with the 10/15 combo with BB before he got injured in 2019.
I've had zero starts at 10 for the AB's , I dont need any more to know i shouldn't be playing there...😉
Look, I think he's probably a great guy. But I've just seen zilch that tells me he has the on-field temperament ro play 10 in a big game for us. He still puts his team under pressure with his sideways running, and I don't think he has the kicking game from hand nor the physique for 80mins at 10.
I honestly thought you were describing Richie M there
You mean "best 10 in the world Richie"???!!!
But yeah, I hear you.
https://www.rugbypass.com/internationals/teams/new-zealand/players/richie-mounga/
I'll just leave this here.
Holy bahaha fuck. The Rugbypass RPI!
Which rates George Bridge as the second best winger in the world. James Lowe is number 1.
Which rates Ardie Savea as the best openside flanker in the world, despite him not playing there for, what, fuck, really, how long?
Which rates Scott Barrett as the second best 4 lock in the world, and that is behind Ezebeth who hasn't played at all!
Fucking excellent series of posts. I tried to think of something funny in response last night and failed, and you've delivered 5 in a row that are outstanding.
Has to be a Fernie for best actor in a mini series 🤣
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@mariner4life said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@Kiwiwomble said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@mariner4life don't get me wrong, thought he had a great game and happy for him to continue at 6, just trying to see the same standard used
it is, and if you opened both your eyes you would see the difference.
Perhaps the way to look at it is that we have two good 6s who have skills to offer. Each has strengths and one hopes both can get even better. So now just need back up for Hoskins.
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@Machpants said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
You could see that try coming as soon as Arg tried to play catch up. I won a shot of whiskey at the pub.
Some Scott b analysis
https://www.theroar.com.au/2020/11/30/did-scott-barrett-just-win-ian-foster-one-more-year/
Scott B is very good scrummaging LH lock. Joe with him behind did brain damage on Saturday.
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@kev said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@reprobate said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
Not really too sure what to make of that game.
They put out a B front row and we hammered their scrum, so what. Their forwards looked a bit tired, and we dominated a bit. Our ruck work was improved. Our ball running was still mediocre, even against tiring defence. We clearly won the forward battle though.
Our backs on the other hand, were nothing short of terrible. Just really, really fucking awful. That much ball, and they couldn't do shit with it. Aimless kicks. Kicks when you have an overlap. Poor finishing. Poor option-taking. The kicks were clearly a tactic drilled into them, because they were doing them even when they weren't on. Worst part is that we didn't even bother to send someone back to cover - that's some pretty basic schoolboy stuff when you're kicking to a 50/50 contest.
The thing about the Argies is that without field position they can't do much. And with Cubelli out, and Sanchez struggling then off the field, our shit kicking was never effectively cleared, likewise our other mistakes/turnovers in their 22. So we basically spent the whole game hot on attack with all the ball, a dominant pack, the world's best halfback, and were pathetically ineffective with it.
Now, despite some odd selections which I think may have been mentioned in passing by others, we have a number of reasonably effective ball runners in our backline. That makes me think that our tactics are dogshit. We aren't finding the space. Honestly it doesn't even seem like we're looking for it.
So we're left with kicking the ball away. A shit tactic, poorly executed, which won us the game pretty comfortably.
Fucken yuck.
We are turning into England.
U.K. press on Sunday, bemoaning fact that safest tactics against rush when within 40m of goal line are kicks.
England Wales both did it.
BORING.
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@gt12 said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
Sorry, this is my last one. David Havili is the best right winger in the world!
Just ridiculous. Everyone knows it's Caleb Ralph. Yes, he's still cleaning up now....
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@pakman said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
Scott B is very good scrummaging LH lock. Joe with him behind did brain damage on Saturday.
While I'm sure Scott B helped Moody, facing Medrano instead of Kodela (and an entire "B" front row) likely helped just as much...
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@Chris-B said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@Tim Absolute bolloocks, Tim!
Pollard - a world beater! Christ Almighty - we've seen heaps of him! Where's he been hiding for five years!
The problem for your thesis, Chris, is that it clearly puts too much stock into what happens at Super Rugby level. We know Pollard has been below par at that level, albeit he has had his injury woes. I'd even agree with the proposition that Pollard has not reached the heights that many expected in 2015, when he nearly guided the Boks to a RWC semi final upset against the greatest AB team ever. However, there's no denying that at test level his record is in another stratosphere to Mo'unga. Even if he has not lived up to his hype or potential, he's still shown the ability to control a match at the very highest level - in a RWC final, where he completely outplayed the two guys who made Mo'unga look like a schoolboy the week before!
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@Chris-B said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@Tim said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@Chris-B Last year only the rugby world cup counted, and Pollard played brilliantly, whereas Mo'unga was awful and anonymous when it counted.
I'm not really having that.
The Boks had a dominant pack and much of their play came off Faf and Willie le Roux.
They lost to us, they took ages to subdue the Japanese and they scraped past Wales. They beat England convincingly in the end, but again that was on the back of a dominant forward pack, staunch defense and Rassie outsmarting Eddie.
Handre did kick his goals, though.
Indeed, something Mo'unga has shown he can't do in far less pressure-filled situations.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@voodoo said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
We had an overlap and hands would have gotten us there, but nooooo,
This. Too much Fancy Dan stuff which doesn't come off when doing the basics would be more effective
This is his fundamental problem at the moment - he looks like a guy who will consistently take the most difficult to execute option - which makes him look good - when something more simple will suffice. There's no doubt he's very talented with a vast array of skills. His problem is his apparent determination to demonstrate those skills whenever he can, rather than simply execute the basic skill that will get the job done.
This brings me to a related point, which I was going to post at another time (but will do so now). To me, Mo'unga is like Ardie - a "luxury" player at test level (as, I think, @mariner4life put it). That little period before Ardie's try early in the second half sums them both up quite well - their only apparent interest was to find and take an opportunity for themselves. Mo'unga had good ball that he could pass long the backline, but ran himself. We had a 5m scrum with a 15m blindside and Caleb Clarke one-on-one with his winger, but instead Ardie picks and runs off the back and goes for the line himself, taking on Matera, the halfback and Sanchez in the process.
In addition, multiple times we had good set piece ball with out inside / midfield backs running straight and hard and Mo'unga tries to take the half gap himself, going a metre over the advantage line instead of dishing it Jack or ALB who might have got us 4-5 metres over the advantage line. That's not to mention the kick to Jordie's wing in the first half or the harbour bridge pass to Clarke after his break when a short pass would have seen a black jersey waltz in under the sticks.
These are the kind of plays that work really well very late on test matches, when the opposition is truly knackered. However, for the first 60 minutes or so, they're just low-percentage plays that cost teams vital points.
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I blame the Hurricanes! But this is surely where the AB coaching team earn their money?!
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@junior said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
That's not to mention the kick to Jordie's wing in the first half or the harbour bridge pass to Clarke after his break when a short pass would have seen a black jersey waltz in under the sticks.
The kick at around 15 minutes? That was Beauden, not Ritchie.
Both Beauden and Ritchie's cross field kicking games were a little long - someone mentioned that the pitch was quite narrow which may explain part of the problem - but they should have adapted...
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@PecoTrain said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@junior said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
That's not to mention the kick to Jordie's wing in the first half or the harbour bridge pass to Clarke after his break when a short pass would have seen a black jersey waltz in under the sticks.
The kick at around 15 minutes? That was Beauden, not Ritchie.
Both Beauden and Ritchie's cross field kicking games were a little long - someone mentioned that the pitch was quite narrow which may explain part of the problem - but they should have adapted...
Yeah, this is something I mentioned above. The standard of kick-passes in 2020 has been significantly lower than 2019.
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@junior said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@voodoo said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
We had an overlap and hands would have gotten us there, but nooooo,
This. Too much Fancy Dan stuff which doesn't come off when doing the basics would be more effective
This is his fundamental problem at the moment - he looks like a guy who will consistently take the most difficult to execute option - which makes him look good - when something more simple will suffice. There's no doubt he's very talented with a vast array of skills. His problem is his apparent determination to demonstrate those skills whenever he can, rather than simply execute the basic skill that will get the job done.
This brings me to a related point, which I was going to post at another time (but will do so now). To me, Mo'unga is like Ardie - a "luxury" player at test level (as, I think, @mariner4life put it). That little period before Ardie's try early in the second half sums them both up quite well - their only apparent interest was to find and take an opportunity for themselves. Mo'unga had good ball that he could pass long the backline, but ran himself. We had a 5m scrum with a 15m blindside and Caleb Clarke one-on-one with his winger, but instead Ardie picks and runs off the back and goes for the line himself, taking on Matera, the halfback and Sanchez in the process.
In addition, multiple times we had good set piece ball with out inside / midfield backs running straight and hard and Mo'unga tries to take the half gap himself, going a metre over the advantage line instead of dishing it Jack or ALB who might have got us 4-5 metres over the advantage line. That's not to mention the kick to Jordie's wing in the first half or the harbour bridge pass to Clarke after his break when a short pass would have seen a black jersey waltz in under the sticks.
These are the kind of plays that work really well very late on test matches, when the opposition is truly knackered. However, for the first 60 minutes or so, they're just low-percentage plays that cost teams vital points.
Option taking still seemed faulty.
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Did my rewatch last night, I was amazed at:
A. how poor Clarkes finishing was.
B. how awful Smith’s passing was. There was a period from 30-37 where four of his passes were at knee level, and only saved by some great handling. If TJ had done that, you would’ve heard about it.
C. how crap the cross field kicks were, not just in execution but why the fuck were they taken - add in some well dumb long kicks into the 22. Ardie the only one with 100% awesome kicks. Also Mo’unga should only take hard kicks, he misses sitters!Scott Barrett, Akira, and Laulala were all so good around the field. Coles was very accurate. Overall our forwards were actually there, backs attack was pretty lame despite the possession they were getting.
What has happened to Taylor? He’s turned to crap.
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@MajorRage our kicking in general has suffered since Byrne left.
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