Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November
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@Chris-B said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@Tim Absolute bolloocks, Tim!
Pollard - a world beater! Christ Almighty - we've seen heaps of him! Where's he been hiding for five years!
The problem for your thesis, Chris, is that it clearly puts too much stock into what happens at Super Rugby level. We know Pollard has been below par at that level, albeit he has had his injury woes. I'd even agree with the proposition that Pollard has not reached the heights that many expected in 2015, when he nearly guided the Boks to a RWC semi final upset against the greatest AB team ever. However, there's no denying that at test level his record is in another stratosphere to Mo'unga. Even if he has not lived up to his hype or potential, he's still shown the ability to control a match at the very highest level - in a RWC final, where he completely outplayed the two guys who made Mo'unga look like a schoolboy the week before!
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@Chris-B said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@Tim said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@Chris-B Last year only the rugby world cup counted, and Pollard played brilliantly, whereas Mo'unga was awful and anonymous when it counted.
I'm not really having that.
The Boks had a dominant pack and much of their play came off Faf and Willie le Roux.
They lost to us, they took ages to subdue the Japanese and they scraped past Wales. They beat England convincingly in the end, but again that was on the back of a dominant forward pack, staunch defense and Rassie outsmarting Eddie.
Handre did kick his goals, though.
Indeed, something Mo'unga has shown he can't do in far less pressure-filled situations.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@voodoo said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
We had an overlap and hands would have gotten us there, but nooooo,
This. Too much Fancy Dan stuff which doesn't come off when doing the basics would be more effective
This is his fundamental problem at the moment - he looks like a guy who will consistently take the most difficult to execute option - which makes him look good - when something more simple will suffice. There's no doubt he's very talented with a vast array of skills. His problem is his apparent determination to demonstrate those skills whenever he can, rather than simply execute the basic skill that will get the job done.
This brings me to a related point, which I was going to post at another time (but will do so now). To me, Mo'unga is like Ardie - a "luxury" player at test level (as, I think, @mariner4life put it). That little period before Ardie's try early in the second half sums them both up quite well - their only apparent interest was to find and take an opportunity for themselves. Mo'unga had good ball that he could pass long the backline, but ran himself. We had a 5m scrum with a 15m blindside and Caleb Clarke one-on-one with his winger, but instead Ardie picks and runs off the back and goes for the line himself, taking on Matera, the halfback and Sanchez in the process.
In addition, multiple times we had good set piece ball with out inside / midfield backs running straight and hard and Mo'unga tries to take the half gap himself, going a metre over the advantage line instead of dishing it Jack or ALB who might have got us 4-5 metres over the advantage line. That's not to mention the kick to Jordie's wing in the first half or the harbour bridge pass to Clarke after his break when a short pass would have seen a black jersey waltz in under the sticks.
These are the kind of plays that work really well very late on test matches, when the opposition is truly knackered. However, for the first 60 minutes or so, they're just low-percentage plays that cost teams vital points.
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I blame the Hurricanes! But this is surely where the AB coaching team earn their money?!
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@junior said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
That's not to mention the kick to Jordie's wing in the first half or the harbour bridge pass to Clarke after his break when a short pass would have seen a black jersey waltz in under the sticks.
The kick at around 15 minutes? That was Beauden, not Ritchie.
Both Beauden and Ritchie's cross field kicking games were a little long - someone mentioned that the pitch was quite narrow which may explain part of the problem - but they should have adapted...
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@PecoTrain said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@junior said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
That's not to mention the kick to Jordie's wing in the first half or the harbour bridge pass to Clarke after his break when a short pass would have seen a black jersey waltz in under the sticks.
The kick at around 15 minutes? That was Beauden, not Ritchie.
Both Beauden and Ritchie's cross field kicking games were a little long - someone mentioned that the pitch was quite narrow which may explain part of the problem - but they should have adapted...
Yeah, this is something I mentioned above. The standard of kick-passes in 2020 has been significantly lower than 2019.
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@junior said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@voodoo said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
We had an overlap and hands would have gotten us there, but nooooo,
This. Too much Fancy Dan stuff which doesn't come off when doing the basics would be more effective
This is his fundamental problem at the moment - he looks like a guy who will consistently take the most difficult to execute option - which makes him look good - when something more simple will suffice. There's no doubt he's very talented with a vast array of skills. His problem is his apparent determination to demonstrate those skills whenever he can, rather than simply execute the basic skill that will get the job done.
This brings me to a related point, which I was going to post at another time (but will do so now). To me, Mo'unga is like Ardie - a "luxury" player at test level (as, I think, @mariner4life put it). That little period before Ardie's try early in the second half sums them both up quite well - their only apparent interest was to find and take an opportunity for themselves. Mo'unga had good ball that he could pass long the backline, but ran himself. We had a 5m scrum with a 15m blindside and Caleb Clarke one-on-one with his winger, but instead Ardie picks and runs off the back and goes for the line himself, taking on Matera, the halfback and Sanchez in the process.
In addition, multiple times we had good set piece ball with out inside / midfield backs running straight and hard and Mo'unga tries to take the half gap himself, going a metre over the advantage line instead of dishing it Jack or ALB who might have got us 4-5 metres over the advantage line. That's not to mention the kick to Jordie's wing in the first half or the harbour bridge pass to Clarke after his break when a short pass would have seen a black jersey waltz in under the sticks.
These are the kind of plays that work really well very late on test matches, when the opposition is truly knackered. However, for the first 60 minutes or so, they're just low-percentage plays that cost teams vital points.
Option taking still seemed faulty.
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Did my rewatch last night, I was amazed at:
A. how poor Clarkes finishing was.
B. how awful Smith’s passing was. There was a period from 30-37 where four of his passes were at knee level, and only saved by some great handling. If TJ had done that, you would’ve heard about it.
C. how crap the cross field kicks were, not just in execution but why the fuck were they taken - add in some well dumb long kicks into the 22. Ardie the only one with 100% awesome kicks. Also Mo’unga should only take hard kicks, he misses sitters!Scott Barrett, Akira, and Laulala were all so good around the field. Coles was very accurate. Overall our forwards were actually there, backs attack was pretty lame despite the possession they were getting.
What has happened to Taylor? He’s turned to crap.
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@MajorRage our kicking in general has suffered since Byrne left.
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@junior said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@voodoo said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
We had an overlap and hands would have gotten us there, but nooooo,
This. Too much Fancy Dan stuff which doesn't come off when doing the basics would be more effective
This is his fundamental problem at the moment - he looks like a guy who will consistently take the most difficult to execute option - which makes him look good - when something more simple will suffice. There's no doubt he's very talented with a vast array of skills. His problem is his apparent determination to demonstrate those skills whenever he can, rather than simply execute the basic skill that will get the job done.
Great analysis and the same certainly applies to Jordie as well. What I loved about Jordie in SR this year is that he really went back to basics, and only chanced his arm when it was really on. He turned into a very solid player that can exploit opportunities, instead of always trying to do something miraculous when it wasn't on and making poor mistakes. Sticking him on the wing has caused him to go backwards.
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@No-Quarter JB has suffered from playing out of position, simple as that. Same as Goodhue
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@canefan said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@No-Quarter JB has suffered from playing out of position, simple as that. Same as Goodhue
and BB but Richie?
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@nostrildamus said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@canefan said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@No-Quarter JB has suffered from playing out of position, simple as that. Same as Goodhue
and BB but Richie?
BB too. RM is what he is right now
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it is almost like tactics have some bearing on winning games! Who would a thought?!
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@Machpants
Clarke's finishing-he was inches from a try and pretty good in the midfield! -
@Machpants said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
Interesting take imo
https://www.theroar.com.au/2020/12/02/how-the-all-blacks-found-their-wings-in-newcastle/
Holy shit, that's the worst fanboi "article" I think I've ever read. I'm pretty sure either Richie or Beauden or one of their Dads wrote that .
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Bit late to the game eh....
Taylor - what's going on mate?
Mounga - what's going on mate? Why is our go to move for him to run straight into the oppo? I'm pretty sure it's not and he's taking that option on his own.
Clarke - yeah bit hungus for my liking, but as a young fella in his first season on the wing, I don't mind the stick your head down and go for it tactics. Would hope to see him distributing a bit more in future. -
@Bones said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
Clarke - yeah bit hungus for my liking, but as a young fella in his first season on the wing, I don't mind the stick your head down and go for it tactics. Would hope to see him distributing a bit more in future.
I like his all-round game. Much more to him than spectacular breaks a la Bled 2. Very sound defensively and under the high ball
