Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November
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@gt12 said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
Other interesting stats that jump out is the effort to use Clarke more. He had 13 runs (2nd to Ardie Savea with 15) and 84 metres with two clean breaks and 4 defenders beaten. He also had at least one very good high ball take, and didn't miss a tackle. Apart from two turnovers, he was just excellent.
Was thinking that too. People seem to focus on his spectacular runs, but as you say, he's an excellent all round player. Very solid on defence.
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@nostrildamus said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
He could well be found out defensively, he could be worse than Jordie at 15 at AB level. But at the moment we have no idea, and that is game six, and the season is over.
Which speaks volumes for the coaching set-up.
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@voodoo said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
We had an overlap and hands would have gotten us there, but nooooo,
This. Too much Fancy Dan stuff which doesn't come off when doing the basics would be more effective
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@reprobate yes our tactics were close to dogshit, but what I really don't like is our inability to choose other tactics in a timely and suitable fashion.
I did notice the Argies weren't shooting up from the line with their smothering tactics like they were a few weeks ago despite having 2/3 of the same loose forwards and Facundo Isa (who is supposed to be a quality player).. -
@junior said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@Chris-B said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@voodoo said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@mariner4life said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@voodoo said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@kpkanz said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@voodoo He had what one start against France? Where it was one of the best performances at 10 we've seen in years? Thats the only opportunity he got.
I remember even at the time people on this board after that game agreed Dmac showed more potential than Mounga. But then the dual playmaker system started and Dmac was set at fullback with the 10/15 combo with BB before he got injured in 2019.
I've had zero starts at 10 for the AB's , I dont need any more to know i shouldn't be playing there...😉
Look, I think he's probably a great guy. But I've just seen zilch that tells me he has the on-field temperament ro play 10 in a big game for us. He still puts his team under pressure with his sideways running, and I don't think he has the kicking game from hand nor the physique for 80mins at 10.
I honestly thought you were describing Richie M there
You mean "best 10 in the world Richie"???!!!
But yeah, I hear you.
I'll just leave this here.
If he is the world's best 10, then we really are in quite a dark period of world rugby
@Chris-B said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@voodoo said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@mariner4life said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@voodoo said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@kpkanz said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@voodoo He had what one start against France? Where it was one of the best performances at 10 we've seen in years? Thats the only opportunity he got.
I remember even at the time people on this board after that game agreed Dmac showed more potential than Mounga. But then the dual playmaker system started and Dmac was set at fullback with the 10/15 combo with BB before he got injured in 2019.
I've had zero starts at 10 for the AB's , I dont need any more to know i shouldn't be playing there...😉
Look, I think he's probably a great guy. But I've just seen zilch that tells me he has the on-field temperament ro play 10 in a big game for us. He still puts his team under pressure with his sideways running, and I don't think he has the kicking game from hand nor the physique for 80mins at 10.
I honestly thought you were describing Richie M there
You mean "best 10 in the world Richie"???!!!
But yeah, I hear you.
https://www.rugbypass.com/internationals/teams/new-zealand/players/richie-mounga/
I'll just leave this here.
Holy bahaha fuck. The Rugbypass RPI!
Which rates George Bridge as the second best winger in the world. James Lowe is number 1.
Which rates Ardie Savea as the best openside flanker in the world, despite him not playing there for, what, fuck, really, how long?
Which rates Scott Barrett as the second best 4 lock in the world, and that is behind Ezebeth who hasn't played at all!
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OMG, if you want to have some fun, choose a current World best and try to find them:
Maro Itoje is rated the fourth best blindside and does not feature in the top 10 locks
Great metric!
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Aaron Smith is the 10th best halfback in the world!
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Sorry, this is my last one. David Havili is the best right winger in the world!
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@gt12 said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@junior said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@Chris-B said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@voodoo said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@mariner4life said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@voodoo said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@kpkanz said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@voodoo He had what one start against France? Where it was one of the best performances at 10 we've seen in years? Thats the only opportunity he got.
I remember even at the time people on this board after that game agreed Dmac showed more potential than Mounga. But then the dual playmaker system started and Dmac was set at fullback with the 10/15 combo with BB before he got injured in 2019.
I've had zero starts at 10 for the AB's , I dont need any more to know i shouldn't be playing there...😉
Look, I think he's probably a great guy. But I've just seen zilch that tells me he has the on-field temperament ro play 10 in a big game for us. He still puts his team under pressure with his sideways running, and I don't think he has the kicking game from hand nor the physique for 80mins at 10.
I honestly thought you were describing Richie M there
You mean "best 10 in the world Richie"???!!!
But yeah, I hear you.
I'll just leave this here.
If he is the world's best 10, then we really are in quite a dark period of world rugby
@Chris-B said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@voodoo said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@mariner4life said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@voodoo said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@kpkanz said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@voodoo He had what one start against France? Where it was one of the best performances at 10 we've seen in years? Thats the only opportunity he got.
I remember even at the time people on this board after that game agreed Dmac showed more potential than Mounga. But then the dual playmaker system started and Dmac was set at fullback with the 10/15 combo with BB before he got injured in 2019.
I've had zero starts at 10 for the AB's , I dont need any more to know i shouldn't be playing there...😉
Look, I think he's probably a great guy. But I've just seen zilch that tells me he has the on-field temperament ro play 10 in a big game for us. He still puts his team under pressure with his sideways running, and I don't think he has the kicking game from hand nor the physique for 80mins at 10.
I honestly thought you were describing Richie M there
You mean "best 10 in the world Richie"???!!!
But yeah, I hear you.
https://www.rugbypass.com/internationals/teams/new-zealand/players/richie-mounga/
I'll just leave this here.
Holy bahaha fuck. The Rugbypass RPI!
Which rates George Bridge as the second best winger in the world. James Lowe is number 1.
Which rates Ardie Savea as the best openside flanker in the world, despite him not playing there for, what, fuck, really, how long?
Which rates Scott Barrett as the second best 4 lock in the world, and that is behind Ezebeth who hasn't played at all!
Upvote cos of the hot chick, who is she ?
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@gt12 said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@junior said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@Chris-B said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@voodoo said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@mariner4life said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@voodoo said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@kpkanz said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@voodoo He had what one start against France? Where it was one of the best performances at 10 we've seen in years? Thats the only opportunity he got.
I remember even at the time people on this board after that game agreed Dmac showed more potential than Mounga. But then the dual playmaker system started and Dmac was set at fullback with the 10/15 combo with BB before he got injured in 2019.
I've had zero starts at 10 for the AB's , I dont need any more to know i shouldn't be playing there...😉
Look, I think he's probably a great guy. But I've just seen zilch that tells me he has the on-field temperament ro play 10 in a big game for us. He still puts his team under pressure with his sideways running, and I don't think he has the kicking game from hand nor the physique for 80mins at 10.
I honestly thought you were describing Richie M there
You mean "best 10 in the world Richie"???!!!
But yeah, I hear you.
I'll just leave this here.
If he is the world's best 10, then we really are in quite a dark period of world rugby
@Chris-B said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@voodoo said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@mariner4life said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@voodoo said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@kpkanz said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@voodoo He had what one start against France? Where it was one of the best performances at 10 we've seen in years? Thats the only opportunity he got.
I remember even at the time people on this board after that game agreed Dmac showed more potential than Mounga. But then the dual playmaker system started and Dmac was set at fullback with the 10/15 combo with BB before he got injured in 2019.
I've had zero starts at 10 for the AB's , I dont need any more to know i shouldn't be playing there...😉
Look, I think he's probably a great guy. But I've just seen zilch that tells me he has the on-field temperament ro play 10 in a big game for us. He still puts his team under pressure with his sideways running, and I don't think he has the kicking game from hand nor the physique for 80mins at 10.
I honestly thought you were describing Richie M there
You mean "best 10 in the world Richie"???!!!
But yeah, I hear you.
https://www.rugbypass.com/internationals/teams/new-zealand/players/richie-mounga/
I'll just leave this here.
Holy bahaha fuck. The Rugbypass RPI!
Which rates George Bridge as the second best winger in the world. James Lowe is number 1.
Which rates Ardie Savea as the best openside flanker in the world, despite him not playing there for, what, fuck, really, how long?
Which rates Scott Barrett as the second best 4 lock in the world, and that is behind Ezebeth who hasn't played at all!
Fucking excellent series of posts. I tried to think of something funny in response last night and failed, and you've delivered 5 in a row that are outstanding.
Has to be a Fernie for best actor in a mini series 🤣
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@mariner4life said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@Kiwiwomble said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@mariner4life don't get me wrong, thought he had a great game and happy for him to continue at 6, just trying to see the same standard used
it is, and if you opened both your eyes you would see the difference.
Perhaps the way to look at it is that we have two good 6s who have skills to offer. Each has strengths and one hopes both can get even better. So now just need back up for Hoskins.
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@Machpants said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
You could see that try coming as soon as Arg tried to play catch up. I won a shot of whiskey at the pub.
Some Scott b analysis
https://www.theroar.com.au/2020/11/30/did-scott-barrett-just-win-ian-foster-one-more-year/
Scott B is very good scrummaging LH lock. Joe with him behind did brain damage on Saturday.
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@kev said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@reprobate said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
Not really too sure what to make of that game.
They put out a B front row and we hammered their scrum, so what. Their forwards looked a bit tired, and we dominated a bit. Our ruck work was improved. Our ball running was still mediocre, even against tiring defence. We clearly won the forward battle though.
Our backs on the other hand, were nothing short of terrible. Just really, really fucking awful. That much ball, and they couldn't do shit with it. Aimless kicks. Kicks when you have an overlap. Poor finishing. Poor option-taking. The kicks were clearly a tactic drilled into them, because they were doing them even when they weren't on. Worst part is that we didn't even bother to send someone back to cover - that's some pretty basic schoolboy stuff when you're kicking to a 50/50 contest.
The thing about the Argies is that without field position they can't do much. And with Cubelli out, and Sanchez struggling then off the field, our shit kicking was never effectively cleared, likewise our other mistakes/turnovers in their 22. So we basically spent the whole game hot on attack with all the ball, a dominant pack, the world's best halfback, and were pathetically ineffective with it.
Now, despite some odd selections which I think may have been mentioned in passing by others, we have a number of reasonably effective ball runners in our backline. That makes me think that our tactics are dogshit. We aren't finding the space. Honestly it doesn't even seem like we're looking for it.
So we're left with kicking the ball away. A shit tactic, poorly executed, which won us the game pretty comfortably.
Fucken yuck.
We are turning into England.
U.K. press on Sunday, bemoaning fact that safest tactics against rush when within 40m of goal line are kicks.
England Wales both did it.
BORING.
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@gt12 said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
Sorry, this is my last one. David Havili is the best right winger in the world!
Just ridiculous. Everyone knows it's Caleb Ralph. Yes, he's still cleaning up now....
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@pakman said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
Scott B is very good scrummaging LH lock. Joe with him behind did brain damage on Saturday.
While I'm sure Scott B helped Moody, facing Medrano instead of Kodela (and an entire "B" front row) likely helped just as much...
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@Chris-B said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@Tim Absolute bolloocks, Tim!
Pollard - a world beater! Christ Almighty - we've seen heaps of him! Where's he been hiding for five years!
The problem for your thesis, Chris, is that it clearly puts too much stock into what happens at Super Rugby level. We know Pollard has been below par at that level, albeit he has had his injury woes. I'd even agree with the proposition that Pollard has not reached the heights that many expected in 2015, when he nearly guided the Boks to a RWC semi final upset against the greatest AB team ever. However, there's no denying that at test level his record is in another stratosphere to Mo'unga. Even if he has not lived up to his hype or potential, he's still shown the ability to control a match at the very highest level - in a RWC final, where he completely outplayed the two guys who made Mo'unga look like a schoolboy the week before!
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@Chris-B said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@Tim said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:
@Chris-B Last year only the rugby world cup counted, and Pollard played brilliantly, whereas Mo'unga was awful and anonymous when it counted.
I'm not really having that.
The Boks had a dominant pack and much of their play came off Faf and Willie le Roux.
They lost to us, they took ages to subdue the Japanese and they scraped past Wales. They beat England convincingly in the end, but again that was on the back of a dominant forward pack, staunch defense and Rassie outsmarting Eddie.
Handre did kick his goals, though.
Indeed, something Mo'unga has shown he can't do in far less pressure-filled situations.
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