Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November
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Y'all motherfuckers ready to listen to me yet?
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First up Ref was good I thought. Matera was inspired. Ledesma managed to keep error rate super low and disciplined. D was relentless and very impressive way past 70 minutes in and I’m happy for the Los Pumas to finally get a meaningful return against ABs especially after all their lockdown efforts as seen in clips. Crazy motivational stuff with very little actual training field time to work with. Their urgency and focus as a result was just a different level and rough for any team to be on the receiving end of. The thought of 4am beer flowing throughout Argentina has me smiling. Similar passion to RWC19 Uruguay win v Fiji against all odds
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This should make me feel better:
But it doesn't.
Already thinking about how to get better? How to get one back?
That horse has bolted man. You were there at Soldier field, how the fuck do you and the 6 other members who were also there not have that in your mind?
Get one back against Argentina? When did we become France?
What the fuck are you guys doing?
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@akan004 said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
@Chris said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
@Kirwan said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
People were complaining about mythical Bok and England concerns, but this was what we were worried about. A physical side making few mistakes.
Yes mate exactly what I was talking about that got slammed by a few people on here
No progression more losses coming m.I mentioned a couple of weeks ago that only Cane and Whitelock would currently be selected in a combined AB/Bok pack. Whitelock may not even make it tbh.
That unfortunately is the reality of where our forwards are atm. We simply aren't world class up front anymore.If all our locks are fit and available I wouldnt select Whitelock for the Boks. He is still a very good player, but isn't consistent enough anymore and doesn't bring the physicality that the SA foursome brings. It's more being different than better to be honest. Seeing that all four plus PSTD are injured/unavailable right now he would make it easily of course.
Coles, Moody, Savea, Cane and Sotutu would be handy. Savea or Cane may start, but I am happy to have Kolisi as a pure Captain over Cane based on today's performance.
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@akan004 said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
Have to ask the question if SRA is actually good for us. Yes our players look like a million bucks in it but they are generally up against passive defences and the physicality is a big step down from what we experienced today. Maybe not playing the saffers and Argies at SR isn't great prep for Test Rugby.
Or it could just be possibly the biggest off day we have had in decades.
I thought that SRA was physically intense, but a little soft tactically. Especially in the early rounds you'd see team try drop goals just of the sake of it, silly plays where the nine would join the maul as ball carrier, not kicking at goal and building an innings etc.
Also thought discipline was poor with a lot niggle and bullshit off the ball.
From a million miles away it just felt more like trials than real competitive games. Nothing wrong with the intensity, but not enough desperation to win at all costs.
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@gt12 said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
This might make me feel better,
But it doesn't. One sentence jumps out, "this loss is going to hurt".
How about the fucking loss last week you fucking bunch of social media abusing toolboxes?
I am a bit over their social media abuse also. They should have sent the interviewer over to the argies sheds to get some real insight. And enough of ousting the trick shots on instagram etc show us some you mean business type stuff
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SRA isn't the problem, it's picking guys who were out of form, neglecting guys who were in form, playing them out of position, and overall shit coaching. The same players under a better coach would be much more cohesive and disciplined, just look at SA going from record defeat to RWC in 2 years (albeit still losing to the ABs in the process)
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
The thing which frustrates me is this is the same-old, same-old.
The problems we saw from 2017 onward are still there and it shows against a team which can out-muscle and out-discipline us. The strategy doesn't seem to have changed much either - go down the blind, spin it into the midfield where the likes of BB can exploit the gaps and fast counter attacks. That and occasional shit kicks and poor discipline.
Bullshit - the problem is that we don't try to build pressure on the opposition before running the ball. Seeing a gap early and exploiting it is a fantastic skill but running into it only to get smashed by the opposition and turnover the ball multiple times SHOULDN'T be part of the game plan.
I don't blame Foster for all of this as he's inherited a lot of the problems and you have to give him credit for some good stuff like making the lineout drive a potent weapon and actually trying to bring some continuity to team selection. But he really needs to have a good, hard look at his tactics, his team plan/style of play development and, above all, get the players heads right, both individually and collectively.
And I can't fault Cane either for his on-field attitude. Sure, he's still learning and some of his decisions aren't good, but he's giving 120% and is at least focussing on controlling the team and the game. Do Senior players like Sam Whitelock, Nugget and Beauden Barrett need to step up and get more involved both on and off the field?
I blame Foster and his coaching team - we have brilliant individuals that don't play well as a team and seem to have lost a lot of confidence in the space of a few weeks. Playing people out of position just compounds that. Our handling errors and lack of awareness during the game (Whitelock offloading to Lomax where Lomax just watches the ball go past him as an example) makes me question what the players are doing during training because they don't seem that familiar with how each other plays in the pitch.
I'm unsure Cane and Ardie can play well as a unit - I assume Foster subbed Frizell because of discipline warnings rather than Ardie as Frizell/Sotutu played well together versus Australia while I wouldn't have even noticed Ardie on the pitch if it wasn't for a late turnover.
And Ardie leads on to the real issue in the team - our mix of experience. Our senior players put in their shifts and generally play very well (Whitelock/Nugget/Moody/Coles/Beauden/Cane) but its the guys that are the next step down and have 20+ tests experience that are really struggling.
Jordie had a poor game, ALB was pretty anonymous, Goodhue did enough to be an average 12 today, Mo'unga was ordinary today, Ardie was ordinary, Tuipulotu was anonymous. And the majority of their subs don't look much better - they generally turn in average at best performances. Reiko's performances starting or off the bench are error ridden. Taylor is likely as good as Coles. Add in TJs performance last week and it looks awful.
As our senior guys start hanging up their boots, what will the next generation look like? At the moment it looks like we need a major shift to younger players because unless things improve, we will end up with a glut of journeymen.
Enough ranting....
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@akan004 said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
I mentioned a couple of weeks ago that only Cane and Whitelock would currently be selected in a combined AB/Bok pack. Whitelock may not even make it tbh.
That unfortunately is the reality of where our forwards are atm. We simply aren't world class up front anymore.Who would you take Cane over in the Bok pack?
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@PecoTrain based on week in week out performance I'd take him over Kolisi (and definitely over any bench option we have atm).
I am huge fan of Kolisi, but between injuries and the role he plays for SA, we don't see his best play often enough.
As a captain though, I am more than happy to Kolisi on and off the pitch.
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I actually think Sotutu and Akira could be world-class forwards given the opportunity. Savea and Cane are in consideration at 7.
Coles is a very handy hooker when he controls himself. Moody is decent. I kind of feel Laulala is not quite where he was or could have been, Ofa is a ticket in waiting.
At lock yes we aren't in a golden era. Perhaps we relied on BBR too much over the years and Whitelock has been run into the ground. Patty T has to be managed like a thoroughbred (even if he doesn't look or play like one).
But we have kept our powder dry! There are some explosive hardworking 6s back in NZ. And one hybrid 6/7 who would have offered something a little different. -
@chimoaus said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
I would love to hear what BB really thinks of Foster and what has happened the last few years. I have a sneaking suspicion behind closed doors he thinks foster is a fluffybunny. This no doubt creeps into the culture of players etc and may help explain why he has just been off for some time.
Huh? He's only ever played with Foster as a coach hasn't he?
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Wow this is one of those tough games to explain. Argies were just better , they defended better, won more turnovers, were more physical, more prepared and just got under our skin. You can quiblle about selections but this team was good enough and experienced enough to do better. I am not really sure that any changes would have led to us winning the game, there were mental errors leading to key moments right across the park. Forwards were out muscled and the backs failed to string anything together. The lack of execution and preparation has to be at Foster's feet but we got subpar performance from many numbers on the field. I don't think there can be too many changes for the next game, 2 or 3 at max. It feels like in 5 games we built up slowly, hit a peak and have then fallen off a cliff. In hindsight, perhaps we needed to keep building last week with minimal changes.
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@akan004 said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
@Chris said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
@Kirwan said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
People were complaining about mythical Bok and England concerns, but this was what we were worried about. A physical side making few mistakes.
Yes mate exactly what I was talking about that got slammed by a few people on here
No progression more losses coming m.I mentioned a couple of weeks ago that only Cane and Whitelock would currently be selected in a combined AB/Bok pack. Whitelock may not even make it tbh.
That unfortunately is the reality of where our forwards are atm. We simply aren't world class up front anymore.Not sure how to make that comparison, almost the same forwards-Read beat the Boks last time out and Barrett had a great game and is probably our 4th best lock right now. That said we were collectively crap today but I would have to believe after watching the Boks tial they are hardly at their peak either.
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@chimoaus said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
@Siam said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
Fuck this I'm getting drunk...where were you when the All Blacks looked like Southland...?
Listening to my wife snore on my shoulder after she fell asleep when we went behind.
Holy phrasing batman.
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@SidBarret said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
@PecoTrain based on week in week out performance I'd take him over Kolisi (and definitely over any bench option we have atm).
I am huge fan of Kolisi, but between injuries and the role he plays for SA, we don't see his best play often enough.
As a captain though, I am more than happy to Kolisi on and off the pitch.
It’s a bit of an unfair comparison though, because the balance and style of play of the AB and Bok backrows are very different. Kolisi for example might be more an 8 if he was a Kiwi
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Oof. Where to start.
I guess on the referee and the travel, they were clearly to blame.
Nah, don't think Gardner had any effect on the result, but fuck me open both eyes if you're gonna be pedantic! Coles slap gets a penalty, Argies not penalised for it once, despite doing it plenty. Jordies "no arms tackle"..wtf? And then to rub it in, we see ALB absolutely creamed in a tackle off the ball, which was high and he claims "they ran into each other". C u n t.
On to the next absolute c u n t. Just such a fluffybunny move to one week say you can't take the halfback off despite him having an absolutely godawful game, then the next week you sub early on our best ever halfback. C u n t.
What the fuck was that ball in hand? Epitomised by having a lineout hot on attack in the last ten and desperately needing to score...what did we do? Hiff it to our 10 to run it straight up. Pretty sure that was thought up by the same guy who thought of the Dagg move in Lions 3. Constantly firing panic kicks and chips for no reason, fairly shortly after 3 phases of hit it straight up in channel 1 or 2 and a 4th phase of two passes to a guy who will stop, goosie and try to swerve around the outside and break any momentum for those outside. And the fucken kick chase! Why are we the only fucken team in the world that can't apply pressure on kicks?
Have to question what's going on behind closed doors. When you have so many players making absolutely crucial clangers in so many games and guys like Perenara, Taylor, Goodhue falling off a cliff (and to a lesser extent BB). And then the discipline, Jesus fuck.
Yeah good one Richie, just kick it dead by a country mile mate. Codie probably would've just loped along and got in your way anyway, I think he's had his brain removed and so is constantly lost.
More to come I'm sure.
