Bledisloe Two: Auckland, October 18
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@taniwharugby I reckon the most significant change we might see this weekend is ALB come into the XV - probably at 2nd five, with Jack moving to centre.
Quite what that means in the outside backs probably depends on whether Beaudy is available and how much they want Jordie to do the goal kicking.
Assuming BB is available, seeing any of Bridge, Jordie, Rieko, Clarke or Reece playing on the wings wouldn't surprise me....
I hope they don't pick Jordie there again, but I wouldn't bet against it.
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@Crucial said in Bledisloe Two: Auckland, October 18:
They see some versatility and combine that with a desire to get other 13s on the park (Ioane, Ennor)
I think it's about pace at 13. Look at the North South match 13's - Ioane, Ennor, PUJ & L Faingaanuku (3 wingers)
The fact Goodhue spent most of SR at 12 makes me think this is a more permanent move (also he tends to stay at 12 when others have subbed on)
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@taniwharugby said in Bledisloe Two: Auckland, October 18:
@Rancid-Schnitzel not what I'm suggesting, I was just saying there is nothing wrong with his physicality and pointed out his work from Sunday.
He could become a good 12, but right now I dont think he is upto the level required, particularly on attack, nor do most on here, but obviously the coaches see somethign there...
No wasn't suggesting that bro ☺️. Goodhue is such a smart player that he could become a quality 12. But I think he'll always be a much better 13 and I'm no fan of Ioane at 13 (but happy to be proven wrong on that).
Ultimately it should be JB at 12 and JG at 13. I may have mentioned that a couple of times....
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@Chris-B my preferred backline would see 12 - ALB, Goodhue - 13, 11 Clarke, 14 - Ioane, 15 BB
I'd put Ioane at 14 because he is more experienced, so should adapt easier than Clarke, who should start.
Well BB isnt my preferred 15, but I think he is the best 15 we have outside chucking in a rookie.
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@Duluth said in Bledisloe Two: Auckland, October 18:
@Crucial said in Bledisloe Two: Auckland, October 18:
They see some versatility and combine that with a desire to get other 13s on the park (Ioane, Ennor)
I think it's about pace at 13. Look at the North South match 13's - Ioane, Ennor, PUJ & L Faingaanuku (3 wingers)
The fact Goodhue spent most of SR at 12 makes me think this is a more permanent move (also he tends to stay at 12 when others have subbed on)
You may be right. There may well be a current coaching strategy to add pace to the 13 to compensate for bringing the wide ranging loosie closer to the middle. That interaction and passing at pace in the 5 metre channel is very in vogue at the moment as a way to get past defensive screens. Goodhue doesn't really bring that skillset.
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I like the thinking behind the Goodhue/Ioane midfield. I love the idea of pace at 13. Goodhue is supposedly the physical foil at 12. Well, that's my read on the thinking anyway
The problems are, both are learning the position at the same time (basically given a SRA season to get themselves sorted). And the i don't think Goodhue is actually as physical as he looks like he should be. He doesn't exactly whack blokes in tackles, and he doesn't exactly smack in to the line.
I am happy to persist if there is an actual plan there, and there is tangible progress being made.
The problem for us great unwashed is, the coaching staff don't tell us shit. And NZ rugby "journalism" doesn't push them on anything, or make any sort of analysis. So we work off guess work and fuck all else.
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@mariner4life said in Bledisloe Two: Auckland, October 18:
I am happy to persist if there is an actual plan there
so far Fozzies plan simply looks like carrying on where Hansen left off bar a couple of positional switches, whihc as we know is about 3 years too old now.
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@Duluth said in Bledisloe Two: Auckland, October 18:
@Crucial said in Bledisloe Two: Auckland, October 18:
They see some versatility and combine that with a desire to get other 13s on the park (Ioane, Ennor)
I think it's about pace at 13. Look at the North South match 13's - Ioane, Ennor, PUJ & L Faingaanuku (3 wingers)
The fact Goodhue spent most of SR at 12 makes me think this is a more permanent move (also he tends to stay at 12 when others have subbed on)
You could be right about that.
I've more thought it's just about a dearth of quality specialist 2nd fives now that SBW and Crotty are gone.
I think Jack got pushed to 2nd five at the Crusaders for the same reason Beauden ended up at fullback for the Blues - i.e. that 12. Goodhue, 13. Ennor, 15. Havili was seen as the strongest combination.
I've not heard that Ennor can play 2nd five and a Havili-Goodhue option has Ennor sitting on the bench.
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@taniwharugby said in Bledisloe Two: Auckland, October 18:
@Chris-B my preferred backline would see 12 - ALB, Goodhue - 13, 11 Clarke, 14 - Ioane, 15 BB
I'd put Ioane at 14 because he is more experienced, so should adapt easier than Clarke, who should start.
Well BB isnt my preferred 15, but I think he is the best 15 we have outside chucking in a rookie.
Overall, our problems in the backs are a bit of a transient thing of a. settling on our best combination; and b. getting game time and experience into our young players.
We have got shedloads of talent and three years down the track could go to RWC 2023 with something close to our best ever backline (though we need a young halfback to stick his hand up).
I don't really subscribe to the doom, gloom and criticism of the talent of any of our individual players in the backs. I think any of them could come out and play blindingly well this weekend.
I've got more concerns about our forwards and our coaches.
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@pakman said in Bledisloe Two: Auckland, October 18:
Assuming forwards all fit, my only change would be Sotutu to start with Frizzell, or just maybe Aoane, on bench. Not heard if Nepo’s available.
In backs I’d be very tempted to put ALB at 12, Jack at 13 and Clarke/Bridge(Aussie kicking game)/Jarrett at back. TJP/Roane/DMX bench. Joane unlucky on that basis.Was very impressed with Frizell in SRA but I don't think he is physical enough for Test Rugby after his performance on the weekend. He didn't make any dominant hits and virtually every Aussie forward who ran at him got over the advantage line fairly easily. Need a Kaino type player in that position who can drive the ball carrier back and Frizell isn't that guy. Grace may be the solution in the long term.
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@Chris-B said in Bledisloe Two: Auckland, October 18:
@taniwharugby said in Bledisloe Two: Auckland, October 18:
@Chris-B my preferred backline would see 12 - ALB, Goodhue - 13, 11 Clarke, 14 - Ioane, 15 BB
I'd put Ioane at 14 because he is more experienced, so should adapt easier than Clarke, who should start.
Well BB isnt my preferred 15, but I think he is the best 15 we have outside chucking in a rookie.
Overall, our problems in the backs are a bit of a transient thing of a. settling on our best combination; and b. getting game time and experience into our young players.
We have got shedloads of talent and three years down the track could go to RWC 2023 with something close to our best ever backline (though we need a young halfback to stick his hand up).
I don't really subscribe to the doom, gloom and criticism of the talent of any of our individual players in the backs. I think any of them could come out and play blindingly well this weekend.
I've got more concerns about our forwards and our coaches.
Yeah Agree with that,it starts up front and with the coaches
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While Frizell wasn't a standout strength, at least he wasn't a weak point. Based on his form this year he's worth persevering with.
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any oil on the team @bayimports ?
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Perhaps @bayimports will share via message?
Or, how about we build a team that we think will be selected (not what we want), and then he tells us how many of them match with the sauce team?
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@akan004 said in Bledisloe Two: Auckland, October 18:
@pakman said in Bledisloe Two: Auckland, October 18:
Assuming forwards all fit, my only change would be Sotutu to start with Frizzell, or just maybe Aoane, on bench. Not heard if Nepo’s available.
In backs I’d be very tempted to put ALB at 12, Jack at 13 and Clarke/Bridge(Aussie kicking game)/Jarrett at back. TJP/Roane/DMX bench. Joane unlucky on that basis.Was very impressed with Frizell in SRA but I don't think he is physical enough for Test Rugby after his performance on the weekend. He didn't make any dominant hits and virtually every Aussie forward who ran at him got over the advantage line fairly easily. Need a Kaino type player in that position who can drive the ball carrier back and Frizell isn't that guy. Grace may be the solution in the long term.
I like Kaino as much as the next fan (maybe not @Nepia ) but he developed into that dominant defensive force over time. Fortunately he had some quality around him to provide opportunity for development. Remember he played a bit of 8 and off the bench becoming a mainstay as our first choice blindside.
I think we need to allow time for some players. Whether Frizell is that guy, I don’t know because it’s seems like he’s hardly played test rugby.
Same goes with the backs. Our combinations are as green as green things. My expectations were pretty low because so many of these guys had never started a test together and losing Beaudie, overall had limited experience.
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@Chris-B said in Bledisloe Two: Auckland, October 18:
We have got shedloads of talent and three years down the track could go to RWC 2023 with something close to our best ever backline (though we need a young halfback to stick his hand up).
That young 9 Roe from Waikato looked very promising the first few rounds I saw him play.
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@KiwiMurph said in Bledisloe Two: Auckland, October 18:
any oil on the team @bayimports ?
BUMP
The asylum is getting restless
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Frizell is big enough, fast enough, but does he seize his opportunities or does he wait for the opposition? Over the last few years I've found the ABs to be too reactive and passive, wait, absorb, then run away once their superior fitness (and handling) starts to shine. Only problem is the other teams can now go 80, are just as skilled and drilled, and if they are more aggressive (Wallabies, Poms), they can overrun the ABs who have no plan B (unless you count bring on BB and hope he gets lucky).
To Foster's credit, I don't see him as relying on Plan B because I did not see Plan A on the weekend.
They need to change 6 to a cunning, hardnosed bastard. And it was clear as daylight when Sotuto charged onto the field that they chose the wrong 8. They need midfielders who are good in their position (Reiko could be, Goodhue was slow but good at 13 so they moved him to 12 where he can be slow and not so good).
They need to choose the best 15. DM is a great sub because no one has a clue what he is going to do (but the unpredictability is more of a liability when he starts). And perhaps they could consider wingers as wingers. Sure they got away with 15 at 11 or 14 in the past but those fullbacks were rather special. Jordie might be faster than he looks (long strides, but, frankly, looks like about as speedy and elusive as an overweight goose) but he didn't seem comfy and hungry at wing. Bridge, Bridge was our Jonah Lomu? In times of trouble, when you need someone to get us over troubled water, well he isn't that Bridge. The opposition must like him though because they kept running at him. At least he is popular. Wonder why.
So I'd count 6, 8, 11, 12, 14, 15 as clearly the wrong selections.
6/15. 40%. What team can paper over those cracks? -
@nostrildamus said in Bledisloe Two: Auckland, October 18:
6/15. 40%. What team can paper over those cracks?
We can! managed to draw with Australia despite them playing pretty well...
