Bledisloe Two: Auckland, October 18
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@nostrildamus said in Bledisloe Two: Auckland, October 18:
@pakman Goodhue isn't small, but more physical than, hmm, what is the competition, ALB (12/13), mini Bus, the giraffe or PUJ (who I think has played 12)..what are they, tiddlywinkers?
Perhaps MORE physical.
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@DMX said in Bledisloe Two: Auckland, October 18:
My issue with BB at 10 is in the past the backline just has not hummed with him, really static, and for some reason his kicking from hand in that position not inspiring either.
What we know with BB is he won't shit the bed, and (a lot of his detractors seem to expunge this stuff from their memories) he's broken open a number of otherwise tight tests with freakish plays to set up tries. He's done it to the Wallabies a number of times. Yes he's not a traditional 10 but he's a country fucking mile ahead of Mo'unga at test level.
I agree with @pukunui though our tactic of spinning it wide and living off scraps is going to be bloody challenging for any 10. Mo'unga would go a lot better if we actually tried to hold the ball for longer periods and get some dominance up front.
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@pakman not sure about that.
Goodhue does alot of the cleaning up, one of the first to alot of breakdowns to secure our ball, gets through a heap of tackles, the odd one he misses, he has usually had a big contact and the guy is slowed sufficiently for the next guy anyway (ideally he drops him then the next guy can try to secure ball)
I think it is offensively where he is struggling at 12, although last weekend there wasnt alot of opportunities for him anyway.
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@taniwharugby said in Bledisloe Two: Auckland, October 18:
@pakman not sure about that.
Goodhue does alot of the cleaning up, one of the first to alot of breakdowns to secure our ball, gets through a heap of tackles, the odd one he misses, he has usually had a big contact and the guy is slowed sufficiently for the next guy anyway (ideally he drops him then the next guy can try to secure ball)
I think it is offensively where he is struggling at 12, although last weekend there wasnt alot of opportunities for him anyway.
Goodhue is not a 12 but is an excellent 13 and should stay there. If Ioane ultimately proves to be a better 13 then he gets selected and Goodhue rides pine. That's the way it used to be, not play the guy out of position to squeeze him in the team somehow.
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@Rancid-Schnitzel not what I'm suggesting, I was just saying there is nothing wrong with his physicality and pointed out his work from Sunday.
He could become a good 12, but right now I dont think he is upto the level required, particularly on attack, nor do most on here, but obviously the coaches see somethign there...
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@taniwharugby said in Bledisloe Two: Auckland, October 18:
He could become a good 12, but right now I dont think he is upto the level required, particularly on attack, nor do most on here, but obviously the coaches see somethign there...
and its not just the national coaches
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@taniwharugby I'm pretty sure both Rennie and Joseph did initially apply - at least the media seemed to be reporting them as being in the race.
But, yeah - I expect both of them thought Fozzie was a fortunate son.
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@Duluth yeah which makes you think they maybe suggested he should play 12 at Super (although worked for saders with Ennor) and are looking at him long term more as a 12, or converting him to one...which ideally isnt done in test matches.
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@taniwharugby said in Bledisloe Two: Auckland, October 18:
@Rancid-Schnitzel not what I'm suggesting, I was just saying there is nothing wrong with his physicality and pointed out his work from Sunday.
He could become a good 12, but right now I dont think he is upto the level required, particularly on attack, nor do most on here, but obviously the coaches see somethign there...
They see some versatility and combine that with a desire to get other 13s on the park (Ioane, Ennor)
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@taniwharugby I reckon the most significant change we might see this weekend is ALB come into the XV - probably at 2nd five, with Jack moving to centre.
Quite what that means in the outside backs probably depends on whether Beaudy is available and how much they want Jordie to do the goal kicking.
Assuming BB is available, seeing any of Bridge, Jordie, Rieko, Clarke or Reece playing on the wings wouldn't surprise me....
I hope they don't pick Jordie there again, but I wouldn't bet against it.
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@Crucial said in Bledisloe Two: Auckland, October 18:
They see some versatility and combine that with a desire to get other 13s on the park (Ioane, Ennor)
I think it's about pace at 13. Look at the North South match 13's - Ioane, Ennor, PUJ & L Faingaanuku (3 wingers)
The fact Goodhue spent most of SR at 12 makes me think this is a more permanent move (also he tends to stay at 12 when others have subbed on)
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@taniwharugby said in Bledisloe Two: Auckland, October 18:
@Rancid-Schnitzel not what I'm suggesting, I was just saying there is nothing wrong with his physicality and pointed out his work from Sunday.
He could become a good 12, but right now I dont think he is upto the level required, particularly on attack, nor do most on here, but obviously the coaches see somethign there...
No wasn't suggesting that bro ☺️. Goodhue is such a smart player that he could become a quality 12. But I think he'll always be a much better 13 and I'm no fan of Ioane at 13 (but happy to be proven wrong on that).
Ultimately it should be JB at 12 and JG at 13. I may have mentioned that a couple of times....
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@Chris-B my preferred backline would see 12 - ALB, Goodhue - 13, 11 Clarke, 14 - Ioane, 15 BB
I'd put Ioane at 14 because he is more experienced, so should adapt easier than Clarke, who should start.
Well BB isnt my preferred 15, but I think he is the best 15 we have outside chucking in a rookie.
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@Duluth said in Bledisloe Two: Auckland, October 18:
@Crucial said in Bledisloe Two: Auckland, October 18:
They see some versatility and combine that with a desire to get other 13s on the park (Ioane, Ennor)
I think it's about pace at 13. Look at the North South match 13's - Ioane, Ennor, PUJ & L Faingaanuku (3 wingers)
The fact Goodhue spent most of SR at 12 makes me think this is a more permanent move (also he tends to stay at 12 when others have subbed on)
You may be right. There may well be a current coaching strategy to add pace to the 13 to compensate for bringing the wide ranging loosie closer to the middle. That interaction and passing at pace in the 5 metre channel is very in vogue at the moment as a way to get past defensive screens. Goodhue doesn't really bring that skillset.
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I like the thinking behind the Goodhue/Ioane midfield. I love the idea of pace at 13. Goodhue is supposedly the physical foil at 12. Well, that's my read on the thinking anyway
The problems are, both are learning the position at the same time (basically given a SRA season to get themselves sorted). And the i don't think Goodhue is actually as physical as he looks like he should be. He doesn't exactly whack blokes in tackles, and he doesn't exactly smack in to the line.
I am happy to persist if there is an actual plan there, and there is tangible progress being made.
The problem for us great unwashed is, the coaching staff don't tell us shit. And NZ rugby "journalism" doesn't push them on anything, or make any sort of analysis. So we work off guess work and fuck all else.
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@mariner4life said in Bledisloe Two: Auckland, October 18:
I am happy to persist if there is an actual plan there
so far Fozzies plan simply looks like carrying on where Hansen left off bar a couple of positional switches, whihc as we know is about 3 years too old now.
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@Duluth said in Bledisloe Two: Auckland, October 18:
@Crucial said in Bledisloe Two: Auckland, October 18:
They see some versatility and combine that with a desire to get other 13s on the park (Ioane, Ennor)
I think it's about pace at 13. Look at the North South match 13's - Ioane, Ennor, PUJ & L Faingaanuku (3 wingers)
The fact Goodhue spent most of SR at 12 makes me think this is a more permanent move (also he tends to stay at 12 when others have subbed on)
You could be right about that.
I've more thought it's just about a dearth of quality specialist 2nd fives now that SBW and Crotty are gone.
I think Jack got pushed to 2nd five at the Crusaders for the same reason Beauden ended up at fullback for the Blues - i.e. that 12. Goodhue, 13. Ennor, 15. Havili was seen as the strongest combination.
I've not heard that Ennor can play 2nd five and a Havili-Goodhue option has Ennor sitting on the bench.
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@taniwharugby said in Bledisloe Two: Auckland, October 18:
@Chris-B my preferred backline would see 12 - ALB, Goodhue - 13, 11 Clarke, 14 - Ioane, 15 BB
I'd put Ioane at 14 because he is more experienced, so should adapt easier than Clarke, who should start.
Well BB isnt my preferred 15, but I think he is the best 15 we have outside chucking in a rookie.
Overall, our problems in the backs are a bit of a transient thing of a. settling on our best combination; and b. getting game time and experience into our young players.
We have got shedloads of talent and three years down the track could go to RWC 2023 with something close to our best ever backline (though we need a young halfback to stick his hand up).
I don't really subscribe to the doom, gloom and criticism of the talent of any of our individual players in the backs. I think any of them could come out and play blindingly well this weekend.
I've got more concerns about our forwards and our coaches.
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@pakman said in Bledisloe Two: Auckland, October 18:
Assuming forwards all fit, my only change would be Sotutu to start with Frizzell, or just maybe Aoane, on bench. Not heard if Nepo’s available.
In backs I’d be very tempted to put ALB at 12, Jack at 13 and Clarke/Bridge(Aussie kicking game)/Jarrett at back. TJP/Roane/DMX bench. Joane unlucky on that basis.Was very impressed with Frizell in SRA but I don't think he is physical enough for Test Rugby after his performance on the weekend. He didn't make any dominant hits and virtually every Aussie forward who ran at him got over the advantage line fairly easily. Need a Kaino type player in that position who can drive the ball carrier back and Frizell isn't that guy. Grace may be the solution in the long term.
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@Chris-B said in Bledisloe Two: Auckland, October 18:
@taniwharugby said in Bledisloe Two: Auckland, October 18:
@Chris-B my preferred backline would see 12 - ALB, Goodhue - 13, 11 Clarke, 14 - Ioane, 15 BB
I'd put Ioane at 14 because he is more experienced, so should adapt easier than Clarke, who should start.
Well BB isnt my preferred 15, but I think he is the best 15 we have outside chucking in a rookie.
Overall, our problems in the backs are a bit of a transient thing of a. settling on our best combination; and b. getting game time and experience into our young players.
We have got shedloads of talent and three years down the track could go to RWC 2023 with something close to our best ever backline (though we need a young halfback to stick his hand up).
I don't really subscribe to the doom, gloom and criticism of the talent of any of our individual players in the backs. I think any of them could come out and play blindingly well this weekend.
I've got more concerns about our forwards and our coaches.
Yeah Agree with that,it starts up front and with the coaches
