The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread
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This game showed quite a few plays that actually worked!
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@DMX said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
@ACT-Crusader said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
@Tim said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
I have fond memories of when NZ held SA to nil in Cape Town on 16 August 2008.
I remember there was a bit of angst going into that match after the Boks beat us in Dunners a few weeks earlier.
But McCaw being back for this match gave us a bit of hope.
There was a bit of ‘outrage’ too going into the Dunners test - Rodders at openside, the Wulf selection, Sivi moved to the right wing, Ellis and O’Neill selections, Afoa starting.
I loved the '08 season, real uncertainty at the beginning but then we ground out Tri-Nation win and ground out a grandslam. Emergence of Nonu, Kaino amd Thorn as genuine starters.
2009 doesn’t hold such fond memories.
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@pakman said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
@DMX said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
@ACT-Crusader said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
@Tim said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
I have fond memories of when NZ held SA to nil in Cape Town on 16 August 2008.
I remember there was a bit of angst going into that match after the Boks beat us in Dunners a few weeks earlier.
But McCaw being back for this match gave us a bit of hope.
There was a bit of ‘outrage’ too going into the Dunners test - Rodders at openside, the Wulf selection, Sivi moved to the right wing, Ellis and O’Neill selections, Afoa starting.
I loved the '08 season, real uncertainty at the beginning but then we ground out Tri-Nation win and ground out a grandslam. Emergence of Nonu, Kaino amd Thorn as genuine starters.
2009 doesn’t hold such fond memories.
Ended well!
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@booboo said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
FYI Fozzie has an 83.3% record.
Undefeated!
Won his first away test in Oz, something that I believe neither Mitchell or Henry achieved.
Edit: Mains also lost his first away OZ test
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@Machpants said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
@booboo said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
FYI Fozzie has an 83.3% record
3 games, 2 wins, that's very much incorrect. A draw does not count as half a win but a loss in ABs books!
So I guess you don't consider 1997 as an unbeaten year for the ABs!
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@Machpants said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
@booboo said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
FYI Fozzie has an 83.3% record.
3 games, 2 wins, that's very much incorrect. A draw does not count as half a win but a loss in ABs books!
Counts for half.
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@Kirwan said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
@mariner4life said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
@ACT-Crusader said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
@mariner4life said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
@Kirwan said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
Your basic point is right. We are great front runners, and struggle when matched up front by teams that don't play much.
but laying that at Foster's feet is a touch disingenuous because we've been like that for a long, long time. Slow the ball, limit turnovers, kick the ball out have been the keys to beating us for ages. We have, for a long time, played a simple game that is holding the opposition, then punishing the fuck out of errors (mainly bad kicks).
We don't pick teams apart with clever ball movement. We don't roll teams in the tight in a field position game and accumulate points. We rely on ruthlessly exploiting the opportunities that come from opposition errors, and a defensive system that keeps the opposition to 20 points or less. That's AB rugby.
And that predates Hansen
yes it does. It predates Ted as well.
So I guess my point is the fix is long overdue?
I've got to ask, the fix to what? England beat us last year because that was their sole focus for four years. Even then it was close. Our winning percentage has been remarkable. Every time we've shown some hubris (Ireland) we've learned a valuable lesson and rectified it.
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Good win and we showed tactical nouse in the wet which means we are capable of different game plan. Team selection still appears as more of a forced hand than first choice which is a worry. But overall well done Fozzie in my book
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@antipodean said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
@Kirwan said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
@mariner4life said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
@ACT-Crusader said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
@mariner4life said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
@Kirwan said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
Your basic point is right. We are great front runners, and struggle when matched up front by teams that don't play much.
but laying that at Foster's feet is a touch disingenuous because we've been like that for a long, long time. Slow the ball, limit turnovers, kick the ball out have been the keys to beating us for ages. We have, for a long time, played a simple game that is holding the opposition, then punishing the fuck out of errors (mainly bad kicks).
We don't pick teams apart with clever ball movement. We don't roll teams in the tight in a field position game and accumulate points. We rely on ruthlessly exploiting the opportunities that come from opposition errors, and a defensive system that keeps the opposition to 20 points or less. That's AB rugby.
And that predates Hansen
yes it does. It predates Ted as well.
So I guess my point is the fix is long overdue?
I've got to ask, the fix to what? England beat us last year because that was their sole focus for four years. Even then it was close. Our winning percentage has been remarkable. Every time we've shown some hubris (Ireland) we've learned a valuable lesson and rectified it.
Fozzie basically said in the last round of interviews that we've been struggling to play in the wet for the past few years and are guilt of overplaying.
The 2015 side could switch gameplans to the point we could play like England (tight and hit drop goals) and it won us a tight semi final against the Boks in terrible conditions.
The current side reminds of 2003 where we rely on opposition mistakes and them kicking to us. If our opposition plays conservatively, or kicks well, this team is going to struggle.
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@Kirwan said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
@antipodean said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
@Kirwan said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
@mariner4life said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
@ACT-Crusader said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
@mariner4life said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
@Kirwan said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
Your basic point is right. We are great front runners, and struggle when matched up front by teams that don't play much.
but laying that at Foster's feet is a touch disingenuous because we've been like that for a long, long time. Slow the ball, limit turnovers, kick the ball out have been the keys to beating us for ages. We have, for a long time, played a simple game that is holding the opposition, then punishing the fuck out of errors (mainly bad kicks).
We don't pick teams apart with clever ball movement. We don't roll teams in the tight in a field position game and accumulate points. We rely on ruthlessly exploiting the opportunities that come from opposition errors, and a defensive system that keeps the opposition to 20 points or less. That's AB rugby.
And that predates Hansen
yes it does. It predates Ted as well.
So I guess my point is the fix is long overdue?
I've got to ask, the fix to what? England beat us last year because that was their sole focus for four years. Even then it was close. Our winning percentage has been remarkable. Every time we've shown some hubris (Ireland) we've learned a valuable lesson and rectified it.
Fozzie basically said in the last round of interviews that we've been struggling to play in the wet for the past few years and are guilt of overplaying.
The 2015 side could switch gameplans to the point we could play like England (tight and hit drop goals) and it won us a tight semi final against the Boks in terrible conditions.
The current side reminds of 2003 where we rely on opposition mistakes and them kicking to us. If our opposition plays conservatively, or kicks well, this team is going to struggle.
I thought we played pretty well in the conditions on Saturday night. It was refreshing to hear Fozzie make mention of the third quarter where we didn't maintain the standard, sop he's making the right noises for me.
The reality is we don't know how good or bad the team is playing just the one opposition, how much of their errors are created by our pressure. Imagine if Covid hadn't interfered with the schedule and we were busy flogging the Welsh?
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@antipodean you can only play who's in front of you, and it was nice to see us on the front foot and dictating the game from the start for a change
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@antipodean said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
@Kirwan said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
@antipodean said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
@Kirwan said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
@mariner4life said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
@ACT-Crusader said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
@mariner4life said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
@Kirwan said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
Your basic point is right. We are great front runners, and struggle when matched up front by teams that don't play much.
but laying that at Foster's feet is a touch disingenuous because we've been like that for a long, long time. Slow the ball, limit turnovers, kick the ball out have been the keys to beating us for ages. We have, for a long time, played a simple game that is holding the opposition, then punishing the fuck out of errors (mainly bad kicks).
We don't pick teams apart with clever ball movement. We don't roll teams in the tight in a field position game and accumulate points. We rely on ruthlessly exploiting the opportunities that come from opposition errors, and a defensive system that keeps the opposition to 20 points or less. That's AB rugby.
And that predates Hansen
yes it does. It predates Ted as well.
So I guess my point is the fix is long overdue?
I've got to ask, the fix to what? England beat us last year because that was their sole focus for four years. Even then it was close. Our winning percentage has been remarkable. Every time we've shown some hubris (Ireland) we've learned a valuable lesson and rectified it.
Fozzie basically said in the last round of interviews that we've been struggling to play in the wet for the past few years and are guilt of overplaying.
The 2015 side could switch gameplans to the point we could play like England (tight and hit drop goals) and it won us a tight semi final against the Boks in terrible conditions.
The current side reminds of 2003 where we rely on opposition mistakes and them kicking to us. If our opposition plays conservatively, or kicks well, this team is going to struggle.
I thought we played pretty well in the conditions on Saturday night. It was refreshing to hear Fozzie make mention of the third quarter where we didn't maintain the standard, sop he's making the right noises for me.
The reality is we don't know how good or bad the team is playing just the one opposition, how much of their errors are created by our pressure. Imagine if Covid hadn't interfered with the schedule and we were busy flogging the Welsh?
Thought we were trying to earn the right to go wide, lots of carries by the forwards in close in and Mounga , Smith and Barrett varied the kicking game. As poor as the Ozzies were I think we have improved over 3 games.
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@DMX said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
As poor as the Ozzies were I think we have improved over 3 games.
They were inexperienced. Some really good stuff from Aus in the first test - good hard physical carries, stressed defenses, asked plenty of questions.
Feels a bit like NZ Cricket playing Australia - Aussie cricketers are just better than us, and if a couple of our stars are gone or not firing, we can get done like a dinner. Conversely, the depth in Aussie cricket is just ridiculous - it's a production line.
Overall, Foster has surpassed my (low) expectations after 3 games. He's got the backs going OK. So far a pass mark. Big questions about selection (ALB and Clarke should have been in Test 1), and what he can bring together for a tight defensive outfit like England.
Finally, for all those worrying about Englnad - don't forget Steady Eddy targetted us for about 3 years I think, and while he did bloody well against us, it wasn't sustainable. Winning a RWC is damn hard.
Edit: I'm dreaming of a draw opening up for us like SA got in '07: Fiji-Aus-Eng for a RWC would be sweet
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@Kirwan said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
If our opposition plays conservatively, or kicks well, this team is going to struggle.
That's an easy statement to make when you know it's pretty much not going to happen eh. Or are you worried this will happen against Arg/Aus?
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@Bones said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
@Kirwan said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
If our opposition plays conservatively, or kicks well, this team is going to struggle.
That's an easy statement to make when you know it's pretty much not going to happen eh. Or are you worried this will happen against Arg/Aus?
I’d say it if it was the week before an SA or England test too. Go back over 2019 and you’ll see similar posts, some making 1991 comparisons.
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I think there are certainly some positive developments so far for Fozzie.
- Improvement from test 1 to test 3 in the kicking game tactics exploiting space
- Some signs of tactical nous exposing weaknesses in opposition (ABs attacked the shortside/blindside a lot on Saturday to great effect, Mounga's first try, Clarke's nearly try, Rieko's try etc)
- A solid midfield combination to at least build from (Goodhue 12 ALB 13)
- Exposure of rookie players all who have looked comfortable (Vaai, Clarke, Sotutu, PUJ, Hodgman)
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The aussies had a 20 yr old at 10 on debut. And a debutant at 12. Their centre is 20 also.
It's hardly a fucken victory for the ages, we know they don't have a lot of depth and that's the whole guts of the backline. To make it a fair fight we'd have to pick um who... Lincoln Mclutchie at 10, TJ Faiane at 12, and Leicester Fainganuku at 13? -
@Kirwan said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
@Bones said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
@Kirwan said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
If our opposition plays conservatively, or kicks well, this team is going to struggle.
That's an easy statement to make when you know it's pretty much not going to happen eh. Or are you worried this will happen against Arg/Aus?
I’d say it if it was the week before an SA or England test too. Go back over 2019 and you’ll see similar posts, some making 1991 comparisons.
Yes but it's not the week before an England or SA test, why would he play Aussie with poor tactics designed for other sides? That would be the sign of awful coaching and utterly ridiculous.
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Random thoughts ... kind of maybe contradictory but I'll throw them out there ...
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Listened to Andrew Saville and Guy Haveldt on ZB via the internerds while on my walk this morning. Was surprised at how positive they were about the All Blacks' performance. Frankly I thought we were ordinary against an ordinary opposition. Especially the 30mins after halftime. Did I miss something? (Scoreline notwithstanding .)
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I get the angst about how we seem to only be able to score off turnover. But firstly
a. scoring as soon as you get the ball is a good thing.
b. Scoring early in your possession means you don't have to create sustained pressure. Who is going to get the ball, back off, say "whoa ... we need to build pressure before we score" when we can actually score now? ABs looked good early building pressure and attacking weaknesses. Then scored a few turnover tries. We're hard markers.
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https://www.espn.co.uk/rugby/report?gameId=25710&league=244293
