RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1)
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@pakman said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):
Wayne's view. Irish game showed our hand too early. https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/on-air/the-devlin-radio-show/audio/wayne-smith-talking-the-all-blacks-loss-south-africas-win-and-the-pros-and-cons-of-some-of-the-coaching-contenders/
Should have kept the powder dry
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@sparky said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):
@booboo Watched some of it last night. My God, the ABs stank the place out in that game, under pressure basic skill execution let them down. Not good at all.
I really think that you need to give England and particularly Eddie a bit more kudos. Edie's game plan was spot on and England performed it very well. A little churlish to just focus on where the ABs fell down.
Caveat: I know that you guys dissect every AB loss in minute detail, focussing and what your boys could have done better and am prepared to give you personally a little leeway here.
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@Catogrande 100% everyone has, well pretty much everyone. Same way we tore apart Ireland, England smashed us. It was a poor ABS effort, but like a lot of poor efforts, they weren't allowed to play well. But efforts like that leave you vulnerable (was same for us vs Oz in 11 and France in 15) and you need real mature grit players to pull you through that next tough game. We and Eng lacked those last RWC, maybe next one!
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@Catogrande said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):
I really think that you need to give England and particularly Eddie a bit more kudos. Edie's game plan was spot on and England performed it very well. A little churlish to just focus on where the ABs fell down.
Yeah, it's a fair cop. They played well, and EJ is a good coach. That said, it's really frustrating to see a team just not execute, and still get close to burgling a win.
@Machpants nailed it too; a few of us talked about the challenge of playing well two weeks in a row, particularly after a big win. England found that in the final too, just didn't show up
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@Catogrande said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):
@sparky said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):
@booboo Watched some of it last night. My God, the ABs stank the place out in that game, under pressure basic skill execution let them down. Not good at all.
I really think that you need to give England and particularly Eddie a bit more kudos. Edie's game plan was spot on and England performed it very well. A little churlish to just focus on where the ABs fell down.
Caveat: I know that you guys dissect every AB loss in minute detail, focussing and what your boys could have done better and am prepared to give you personally a little leeway here.
I saw an article a few weeks ago where John Mitchell said that Eddie had watched a lot of tapes and figured NZ out. Watching the replay for the first time I did notice the fishhook defence one side/ Curry & Underhill other side did corral our inside backs well, and led to too many more momentum killing turnovers. By 60 minutes I think we were starting to cope, but then were very sloppy at key moments.
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@nzzp said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):
@Catogrande said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):
I really think that you need to give England and particularly Eddie a bit more kudos. Edie's game plan was spot on and England performed it very well. A little churlish to just focus on where the ABs fell down.
Yeah, it's a fair cop. They played well, and EJ is a good coach. That said, it's really frustrating to see a team just not execute, and still get close to burgling a win.
@Machpants nailed it too; a few of us talked about the challenge of playing well two weeks in a row, particularly after a big win. England found that in the final too, just didn't show up
I'll continue the churlish theme.
SA outplayed and outhought England.
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@MiketheSnow said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):
@nzzp said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):
@Catogrande said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):
I really think that you need to give England and particularly Eddie a bit more kudos. Edie's game plan was spot on and England performed it very well. A little churlish to just focus on where the ABs fell down.
Yeah, it's a fair cop. They played well, and EJ is a good coach. That said, it's really frustrating to see a team just not execute, and still get close to burgling a win.
@Machpants nailed it too; a few of us talked about the challenge of playing well two weeks in a row, particularly after a big win. England found that in the final too, just didn't show up
I'll continue the churlish theme.
SA outplayed and outhought England.
Not much at that cup between NZ Eng SA. Wales had a gilt edged opporutnity to get to the Final, but blew it. France self destructed as only they can.
Overall though, those three teams all beat each other. I think Ireland were on the wane, but could easily have been a spoiler for the tourney (arguably they were, by coming over to the NZ/Eng side of the draw).
Was a good tourney if you were neutral (pro tip: we're not
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@Catogrande Huge kudos to Eddie Jones and Cueball for coming up with the plan they did. Big kudos to guys Underhill, Sinkler, Itoje and Billy Vunipola who were superb in that game.
My point was when the ABs had half chances in that game, especially in the second half (and that is all some AB teams have needed in the past), the skill execution and the fortitude to do so under pressure were not good. For many years, the ABs have prided themselves on the high-quality of their basic skills. For a number of reasons there was little evidence of that from that game. In a way that hurts more than the loss.
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@sparky said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):
@Catogrande Huge kudos to Eddie Jones and Cueball for coming up with the plan they did. Big kudos to guys Underhill, Sinkler, Itoje and Billy Vunipola who were superb in that game.
My point was when the ABs had half chances in that game, especially in the second half (and that is all some AB teams have needed in the past), the skill execution and the fortitude to do so under pressure were not good. For many years, the ABs have prided themselves on the high-quality of their basic skills. For a number of reasons there was little evidence of that from that game. In a way that hurts more than the loss.
After the performances vs SA and Ireland I have no doubt we had it in us. But when the opportunities came to snaffle the game, like we've done many times during the Shag era, we were nowhere near good enough
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@MiketheSnow said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):
@nzzp said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):
@Catogrande said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):
I really think that you need to give England and particularly Eddie a bit more kudos. Edie's game plan was spot on and England performed it very well. A little churlish to just focus on where the ABs fell down.
Yeah, it's a fair cop. They played well, and EJ is a good coach. That said, it's really frustrating to see a team just not execute, and still get close to burgling a win.
@Machpants nailed it too; a few of us talked about the challenge of playing well two weeks in a row, particularly after a big win. England found that in the final too, just didn't show up
I'll continue the churlish theme.
SA outplayed and outhought England.
Absolutely they did, but I do think there was something in England's performance that suggested a bit of surprise of just how tough SA were, especially early in the match. You could start to see some doubt creep in, poor execution and decision-making and, when they couldn't break the SA defence late in the first half, I think it really began to dawn on them that it wasn't going to be their day.
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@MiketheSnow said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):
@nzzp said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):
@Catogrande said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):
I really think that you need to give England and particularly Eddie a bit more kudos. Edie's game plan was spot on and England performed it very well. A little churlish to just focus on where the ABs fell down.
Yeah, it's a fair cop. They played well, and EJ is a good coach. That said, it's really frustrating to see a team just not execute, and still get close to burgling a win.
@Machpants nailed it too; a few of us talked about the challenge of playing well two weeks in a row, particularly after a big win. England found that in the final too, just didn't show up
I'll continue the churlish theme.
SA outplayed and outhought England.
And so shall I.
The biggest problem for England was they'd already played a really hard game whereas SA...
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@Catogrande said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):
@MiketheSnow said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):
@nzzp said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):
@Catogrande said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):
I really think that you need to give England and particularly Eddie a bit more kudos. Edie's game plan was spot on and England performed it very well. A little churlish to just focus on where the ABs fell down.
Yeah, it's a fair cop. They played well, and EJ is a good coach. That said, it's really frustrating to see a team just not execute, and still get close to burgling a win.
@Machpants nailed it too; a few of us talked about the challenge of playing well two weeks in a row, particularly after a big win. England found that in the final too, just didn't show up
I'll continue the churlish theme.
SA outplayed and outhought England.
And so shall I.
The biggest problem for England was they'd already played a really hard game whereas SA...
realised they had work to do to lift the Cup.
They spent the week working hard on their game; analysing their opponent; and not taking anything for granted based on results up to that point.
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@Catogrande said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):
@MiketheSnow said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):
@nzzp said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):
@Catogrande said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):
I really think that you need to give England and particularly Eddie a bit more kudos. Edie's game plan was spot on and England performed it very well. A little churlish to just focus on where the ABs fell down.
Yeah, it's a fair cop. They played well, and EJ is a good coach. That said, it's really frustrating to see a team just not execute, and still get close to burgling a win.
@Machpants nailed it too; a few of us talked about the challenge of playing well two weeks in a row, particularly after a big win. England found that in the final too, just didn't show up
I'll continue the churlish theme.
SA outplayed and outhought England.
And so shall I.
The biggest problem for England was they'd already played a really hard game whereas SA...
What must be Gaulling is that had Wales scraped through the semi (which might have been possibility had they played some rugby before the last 15) their depleted team would have been ripped apart by the English.
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@MiketheSnow said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):
They spent the week working hard on their game; analysing their opponent; and not taking anything for granted based on results up to that point.
The exact opposite of Japan 07
Also, it's facile to claim the English or NZ didn't either. They do - but it's human nature to relax a bit after a big effort; climbing the mountain again so soon is damn hard. It's not one performance that defines you, it's week in, week out effort. McCaw seemed to be the master at this from the outside, just never let down his standards.
Also, the NZ Eng game - we got thrashed by 7 points. Just didn't ever grab our half chances at any stage, and were behind physically. If you do that, you're scuppered
