RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1)
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@SammyC why?
He has never played like that against us before, sure he is a beast in the English Premiership, but often players look huge at the next level down, but dont the step up. He has had glimpses, I thought he was average in the Lions, but this one he showed his full range for 80.
I mentioned earlier in the thread during the game he showed what all the 'hype' was about, he was outstanding; we are all entitled to our opinion, shit you read any thread on here with people from the same provinces/super franchises who disagree with how good/poor someone there is...that doesnt make anyone arrogant IMO, we all see things differently, we all expect/want different players to play certain ways, need only look at the player polls to see a wide range of opinions on peoples perceptions of who plays well or not.
His performance, along with others wearing the white jersey was one out of the box, aside from a couple of players in black who may have equalled thier opposite, we were comprehensively outplayed by England.
Next week will show if that was a one off or the start of somethign special for England.
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Will be interesting to see how England go in the final ,
Obviously they targeted the AB game big time ,
And some times its difficult to back up a big performance in consecutive weeks
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@Billy-Webb said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):
@gt12 said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):
@Billy-Webb said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):
I honestly don’t think it was a case of NZ not being “hungry” enough.
England simply didn’t allow you to play. They were that good on the night.I strongly disagree. We had opportunities to just try and get territory, then from there, try to build pressure - get penalties - and try to break them down. Instead, with every piece of possession we got, we took terrible options, usually kicking it straight back to them. Had we buckled down after the first try, and said, fuck it, let's just play it in their half, we'd have put ourselves in the position to have challenged. But we never put them under any pressure - in their half - and the only time we did, we got a lucky try. I'm fucked if I know who was running things out there, but whoever it was shouldn't wear a black jersey again, And if the do, I hope they have nightmares about this game. We got fucking hammered .
Fair enough comment. There were some poor options taken. But I see that in the context of England putting so much pressure on the ABs.
England/Eddie got into out heads. We were rattled from the onset. Then they played more conservatively as game went on. In response, we kept forcing things.
I don't think the psychological impact of the two disallowed tries has been discussed. The net impact in reality was we kept them out on two occasions they were right in the red zone. a win of sorts. However, I'm guessing in reaction the ABs just got more desperate/less composed.
In the end it was the pressure which ABs PUT ON THEMSELVES which did for us! England's key input was important, but in essence passive -- by not trying anything too heroic it let us have full rein to over-egg the pudding.
Also sense England were looking to slow game down, which seemed to spur us to push even harder on the gas pedal.
But we had time on our hands. Compare with ABs against Dublin 2013 and going all the way back to Michael Lynagh in 1991 RWC quarters against Ireland.
Lessons to be learned.
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@gt12 said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):
@MiketheSnow said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):
@Nepia said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):
@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):
Cane would have made a difference.
Also think he adds a lot in the leadership department - sadly lacking today.
Yeah, it's utter BS to pretend Cane wouldn't have made a difference when starting even if the result stayed the same - we have a much better chance of a win if he starts.
Agreed.
But S Barrett is the fall guy for a very shit Read performance and captaincy.
Unfair IMHO.
Excellent point.
I think Read has been a great All Black, but he is no legend - his five missed tackles (ESPN stats) tell the story of a guy who is either injured or past it. If he was amazing last week against a shit Ireland, how can he be amazing - with those stats - against England? He ran OK (25 metres off of 8 runs), but his captaincy tonight was pretty appalling - he and the team looked lost. He's been surviving on being McCaw's successor and tonight showed that it's all for shit. We were under pressure., but this wasn't 2011 8-7, this was a hammering, and he was front and center missing tackles.
Maybe he was carrying an injury?
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@NTA said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):
I had a think about it and put my comments on Twitter. Here they are redrafted for the Fern:
England don't rely on bounce of the ball. They may never be the most creative set of individuals but roles and responsibilities are understood and executed using the talents they have - an Eddie Jones hallmark.
The ABs historically have a hard-nosed approach to the basics, but in recent years they've become a little tinny with some of their "miracle" plays like Barrett magic. They didn't have that, and tried too hard to find it last night.
The "we will out-Kiwi them eventually" doesn't always stick
You got a couple of rough calls from Nigel, which also historically hasn't happened (with Owens or any other ref). At that point the contrasts between leadership of McCaw and Read were highlighted.
The NZRFU systems will ensure that kind of loss remains a rarity, but it's time for a refresh in the coaching ranks.
In a way I'm disappointed (ABE) but would a threepeat with another tinny win be good for the game as a whole?
No.
Also interested to see ex-Fern stalwart Red Beard on Twitter, speculating about absences:
What's Red Beard's Twitter handle?
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@kiwiinmelb said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):
Will be interesting to see how England go in the final ,
Obviously they targeted the AB game big time ,
And some times its difficult to back up a big performance in consecutive weeks
Gatland had that same swipe at England (funnily enough not at SA), Eddie's reply was priceless.
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@Catogrande said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):
@kiwiinmelb said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):
Will be interesting to see how England go in the final ,
Obviously they targeted the AB game big time ,
And some times its difficult to back up a big performance in consecutive weeks
Gatland had that same swipe at England (funnily enough not at SA), Eddie's reply was priceless.
Mine wasnt a swipe as such , just know that we have had the same issue ourselves at times
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@antipodean said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):
Sumo thinks Scotty Barrett brings more physicality than Cane:
Clearly it wasn’t about lineouts, because they were an absolute shit show
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@Catogrande said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):
@kiwiinmelb said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):
Will be interesting to see how England go in the final ,
Obviously they targeted the AB game big time ,
And some times its difficult to back up a big performance in consecutive weeks
Gatland had that same swipe at England (funnily enough not at SA), Eddie's reply was priceless.
Disagree, Gatland's done a great job Wales with limited resources. Eddie's done a great job too, but he has had the RFU millions at his disposal.
Going to be very interesting indeed to see how England cope with the media hype and the overwhelming weight of expectation this week. Eddie Jones is acting like he's the king of the world. I wonder if he'll be so cocky next Monday? The pressure was being favourites as done funny things to sides' minds in the past. Going to be no one in Tokyo as busy this week as England's mental skills coach.
Easy week for South Africa psychologically. Nothing to lose. Given the political mess the Springboks were in a few years ago and that they lost their opening game, winning the Rugby Championships and making the RWC final is a magnificent achievement by Rassie Erasmus.
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@sparky said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):
Amazing to think the side that demolished the All Blacks on Saturday were the same lot as conceded 38 consecutive points to Scotland in March:
World Cups in September/October aren’t won in March.
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@ACT-Crusader Indeed. That is the lesson. Eddie Jones' made sure his team has kept learning over the last 2 years that is for sure.
It was an odd game as well. England demolished Scotland in the first 35 minutes. Whatever it said on the scoreboard, England were better than that. Then they obviously relaxed a bit and back Scotland came.
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@pakman said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):
@gt12 said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):
@MiketheSnow said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):
@Nepia said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):
@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):
Cane would have made a difference.
Also think he adds a lot in the leadership department - sadly lacking today.
Yeah, it's utter BS to pretend Cane wouldn't have made a difference when starting even if the result stayed the same - we have a much better chance of a win if he starts.
Agreed.
But S Barrett is the fall guy for a very shit Read performance and captaincy.
Unfair IMHO.
Excellent point.
I think Read has been a great All Black, but he is no legend - his five missed tackles (ESPN stats) tell the story of a guy who is either injured or past it. If he was amazing last week against a shit Ireland, how can he be amazing - with those stats - against England? He ran OK (25 metres off of 8 runs), but his captaincy tonight was pretty appalling - he and the team looked lost. He's been surviving on being McCaw's successor and tonight showed that it's all for shit. We were under pressure., but this wasn't 2011 8-7, this was a hammering, and he was front and center missing tackles.
Maybe he was carrying an injury?
Perhaps, in which case I'd have preferred us to have had real 8 cover there, like Steven Luatua, who we could have kept in the country if we'd ever considered that happening at a WC. Of course, we could have easily put Ardie there for this game with Cane at 7. If he was injured - that badly - I'd have a bit less respect for him as he should put the jersey and the prize first. Had we won, he'd have captained us in a final.
I know that sounds contrite, but there has only ever been one AB good enough - in the modern era - to play through injury, and he's been retired since 2015 - strangely enough - the last time we won the cup.
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@ACT-Crusader said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):
@sparky said in RWC: England v New Zealand (SF1):
Amazing to think the side that demolished the All Blacks on Saturday were the same lot as conceded 38 consecutive points to Scotland in March:
World Cups in September/October aren’t won in March.
Yeah never understood it. All Blacks would put 60 points on Scotland.
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@pakman You must have been at the game......is all I can think of....
