Has Hansen gone stale?
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@donsteppa said in Has Hansen gone stale?:
The “we were holding something back” argument is always nice wishful thinking, but often bollocks.
I can’t easily remember the last time a team suddenly pulled off a triple scissors esque move for the first time ever in an RWC knockout game.
That's simplifying things rather drastically isn't it? I don't think anyone talking about us holding something back is talking about dinky little scrum moves, being disingenuous there.
Patterns, styles, players, combinations, etc. The confusing thing about the ABs over the past 2 years has been watching them cycle through several different periods within a game where they will completely dominate and then shift to doing something slightly different and look average. I think they're more likely to pull out bit parts to see how they can do them and their effect, knowing they can piece them together when required. I think that's where the ABs are lucky in that they've been that far ahead they have the ability to do this, whereas even if other teams are keeping their powder dry, they don't have as comfortable a leeway there.
Players that have looked the goods have been used very little or not at all, yet have been kept close to camp.
Even Coles has decided to not throw into a lineout properly, so that's obviously a tactic. Which takes the heat off Harris.
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@akan004 said in Has Hansen gone stale?:
@shadowtrooper said in Has Hansen gone stale?:
My English mate reckons Ireland have 1 big game in them every so often. Lets hope that was the game. By christ come RWC time I want us to be so dominant we will have all the other teams sat on their arses and crying for their mummies....
We definitely want to avoid them in the quarters. I am confident that we will beat them but the game will be so physically draining with the style they play that we will be shattered come the semis and final.
That's also why I don't think Ireland can win the entire thing. No way they can play like that 3 games straight.
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@akan004 said in Has Hansen gone stale?:
@shadowtrooper said in Has Hansen gone stale?:
My English mate reckons Ireland have 1 big game in them every so often. Lets hope that was the game. By christ come RWC time I want us to be so dominant we will have all the other teams sat on their arses and crying for their mummies....
We definitely want to avoid them in the quarters. I am confident that we will beat them but the game will be so physically draining with the style they play that we will be shattered come the semis and final.
That's the unfortunate thing for Ireland - they're almost certainly going to have either us or the Jaapies as their QF opponent, while if we can put those SA feckers away in the round robin, we've got a good chance of playing Scotland - and, best of all, allowing either SA or Ireland to take the other out.
If we can't beat the Jaapies in the round robin, well, we deserve what we get!
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@rancid-schnitzel said in Has Hansen gone stale?:
@akan004 said in Has Hansen gone stale?:
@shadowtrooper said in Has Hansen gone stale?:
My English mate reckons Ireland have 1 big game in them every so often. Lets hope that was the game. By christ come RWC time I want us to be so dominant we will have all the other teams sat on their arses and crying for their mummies....
We definitely want to avoid them in the quarters. I am confident that we will beat them but the game will be so physically draining with the style they play that we will be shattered come the semis and final.
That's also why I don't think Ireland can win the entire thing. No way they can play like that 3 games straight.
Plus pool play too - ya gotta front up for 5 pool games, and then up to three knockouts. That's some serious load on the body. Ireland have Samoa, Japan and Scotland as well as Russia in their pool.
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@nzzp Agreed. I think our draw isn't perfect either because we have Italy as our last pool game. I watched their game against the wobs on the weekend and they look like a pretty physical team now. Would have been better if we had them earlier in the pool stages.
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@akan004 said in Has Hansen gone stale?:
@nzzp Agreed. I think our draw isn't perfect either because we have Italy as our last pool game. I watched their game against the wobs on the weekend and they look like a pretty physical team now. Would have been better if we had them earlier in the pool stages.
I"m happy with Italy last. They want a physical game - makes it easier than going to the south of france during the repechage ...
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@bones said in Has Hansen gone stale?:
@donsteppa said in Has Hansen gone stale?:
The “we were holding something back” argument is always nice wishful thinking, but often bollocks.
I can’t easily remember the last time a team suddenly pulled off a triple scissors esque move for the first time ever in an RWC knockout game.
That's simplifying things rather drastically isn't it? I don't think anyone talking about us holding something back is talking about dinky little scrum moves, being disingenuous there.
Patterns, styles, players, combinations, etc. The confusing thing about the ABs over the past 2 years has been watching them cycle through several different periods within a game where they will completely dominate and then shift to doing something slightly different and look average. I think they're more likely to pull out bit parts to see how they can do them and their effect, knowing they can piece them together when required. I think that's where the ABs are lucky in that they've been that far ahead they have the ability to do this, whereas even if other teams are keeping their powder dry, they don't have as comfortable a leeway there.
Players that have looked the goods have been used very little or not at all, yet have been kept close to camp.
Even Coles has decided to not throw into a lineout properly, so that's obviously a tactic. Which takes the heat off Harris.
I agree. I think the biggest pointer towards the whole "keeping your powder dry" thing (by the way, i think it is a terrible way to describe it) is the game plan/tactic the ABs pulled out against the Lions in the first test. The whole lead up to that game the talk was about how they had no answer to the rush defence. The ABs showed in that game that they clearly did. However, since then we have only seen that plan used for 10 minutes here 15 minutes there. That little period against England after Crotty came on was a good example.
I don't believe for a second that the coaches or players have forgotten that gameplan. They have just put it away in their back pocket to try out other things so they have options and the other teams don't have hours of game footage to analyse and counter it.Anyway could be worse. We could be Australia and have lost 8 games this year with England still to come.
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@nzzp said in Has Hansen gone stale?:
@akan004 said in Has Hansen gone stale?:
@nzzp Agreed. I think our draw isn't perfect either because we have Italy as our last pool game. I watched their game against the wobs on the weekend and they look like a pretty physical team now. Would have been better if we had them earlier in the pool stages.
I"m happy with Italy last. They want a physical game - makes it easier than going to the south of france during the repechage ...
Yeah although an easy pool didn't effect us the last time.
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@shadowtrooper said in Has Hansen gone stale?:
My English mate reckons Ireland have 1 big game in them every so often. Lets hope that was the game. By christ come RWC time I want us to be so dominant we will have all the other teams sat on their arses and crying for their mummies....
Not a bad summary except that every so often is turning out to be about 4 times a year now.
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@akan004 said in Has Hansen gone stale?:
@nzzp said in Has Hansen gone stale?:
@akan004 said in Has Hansen gone stale?:
@nzzp Agreed. I think our draw isn't perfect either because we have Italy as our last pool game. I watched their game against the wobs on the weekend and they look like a pretty physical team now. Would have been better if we had them earlier in the pool stages.
I"m happy with Italy last. They want a physical game - makes it easier than going to the south of france during the repechage ...
Yeah although an easy pool didn't effect us the last time.
We countered that though, by making it look difficult.
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@majorrage said in Has Hansen gone stale?:
@akan004 said in Has Hansen gone stale?:
@nzzp said in Has Hansen gone stale?:
@akan004 said in Has Hansen gone stale?:
@nzzp Agreed. I think our draw isn't perfect either because we have Italy as our last pool game. I watched their game against the wobs on the weekend and they look like a pretty physical team now. Would have been better if we had them earlier in the pool stages.
I"m happy with Italy last. They want a physical game - makes it easier than going to the south of france during the repechage ...
Yeah although an easy pool didn't effect us the last time.
We countered that though, by making it look difficult.
Post-cup the team explained the poor early performances were down to a heavy training schedule. They tapered off in time to smash the frogs in the QF
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Keeping powder dry? - I think there is a very small element of this. They have certainly been trialling different things for spells and taking note of what is effective and what isn't.
It is interesting that the coaches keep referring to players' getting to grips with a new style' but there has not been any evidence of a 'new style' at all. Just lots of different things for short spells.
I think there is also a case of seeing the plans these teams have against us. Where does Ireland go from here? They have found a way to win and will use it again. Now we just need to plot the way past that plan.
I don't think they have been too cute, just playing to the edge and hoping to pull through. When our best players all have a shit day at the same time then it is a given that this plan won't work.I have my fingers crossed that Hansen has taken these risks as part of a grand plan. The plan may not work, but I think he realises that continuing to play a style of feeding off turnovers only lasts so long and that by RWC it will be dead.
I will be interested to see what this eventual change will be. They have been periods where we have just bent the line one out and recycled but I don't think that is the real answer. Ireland showed how they could shut that down well.
We will still have an advantage of transition play that teams like Ireland and England don't have. It isn't instinctive in their bread and butter rugby and the players don't grow up doing it. Those hundredths of seconds deciding to make an unexpected pass or see an opportunity before it happens will still be a strength, we just can't rely on those turnovers against low risk taking teams.The reality in that game was that we had too many players out of form at once. Franks, Codie, BBBR, Read, AS, BB, Reiko. It was like someone had slipped them all a sedative. Was very unusual.
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@crucial not to mention missing Moody & Cane, 2 guys that do alot of defensive work, with the latter possibly being missed more than we realise despite Ardie playing the house down in his looser role.
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@taniwharugby You are almost always going to be missing some top players - weren't Ireland missing about 4 of their top side (similarly England the week prior)?
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@kiwimurph not using them as an excuse, the Irish played bloody well and deserved to win, but these are things that contributed to how we played.
Who's to say had they had thier 'top players' playing things would have panned out the same and one of them may have had an off day...sliding doors and all.
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@crucial said in Has Hansen gone stale?:
The reality in that game was that we had too many players out of form at once. Franks, Codie, BBBR, Read, AS, BB, Reiko.
How on earth did Reiko make that list? He was a threat every time he got the ball, which was usually in traffic, and he just didn't get the ball often.
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@mofitzy_ said in Has Hansen gone stale?:
I'm unsure of the best midfield but SBW isn't in it.
I really can't recall a best midfield with SBW in it.
He was no.2 to Nonu and for the last 3 years his brain-farts outnumber his magic off-loads by about 3 to 1 - well, when he's not injured.
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The keeping the powder dry argument is a crock. You can hold back certain plays without the team looking like a bunch of muppets who have never met each other before. I'm really troubled how a bunch of senior players could all collectively play so bloody badly. One guy having an off day, it happens. Two yeah, ok. But we had five or six. Considering a massive squad was sent away to counteract the fatigue issue, it was alarming to see so many players ambling about. Fitness has always been our thing.
I dunno. Maybe there has been too much experimentation. Especially with the backline and the constantly rotating midfield/first five who really wants to be a fullback/out of sorts starting halfback. We just really seem out of balance, not creating space, not bashing it up, not retaining possession.
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@victor-meldrew said in Has Hansen gone stale?:
@mofitzy_ said in Has Hansen gone stale?:
I'm unsure of the best midfield but SBW isn't in it.
I really can't recall a best midfield with SBW in it.
He was no.2 to Nonu and for the last 3 years his brain-farts outnumber his magic off-loads by about 3 to 1 - well. when he's not injured.
For me the defining test of his career is the second test against the Lions.
