Ireland vs All Blacks (2018)
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@siam said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@junior I can't attribute our wins solely to Aaron so confidentally, I suspect team mates and opposition had some influence on results
It counts, but it's relative importance is subjective. Fact is, his passing ability alone has allowed the team to play very differently on attack, with a great deal of success. I personally think that a lot of our forwards' great "ball-handling ability" is down to the extra time they get due to the speed and accuracy of his pass.
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@junior yeah, it's all well and good to attribute "wins" to one or the other in certain areas, but you'd have to factor in the degree of the "win" and it's relevance, as well as the effect on the team.
Smith is so much better at passing it's not funny. He's a better kicker too, it's not even. The half back isn't there to be physical for the most part, so how relevant is that?
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@taniwharugby said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@siam having an average passing 9 is like an average throwing 2...we had both during the same period IIRC.
I thought Marshall was a very good 9, in fact I modelled my game at 9 around his...I got moved to 6 🤣
I wish he would stick to writing about rugby where he is good and move away from the commentating.
Yeah it’s best we don’t compare the literacy of the two . After David ffs .
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@bones yeah, I was thinking of that too. Hard to remember Marshall and we weren't so stats savvy.
Was also wondering at support lines and backing up.
Marsh a bit more busy at the back clearing?
Look, different times, different rules, different lots of things.
Aaron Smith has been fucking fantastic. Functioned marvelously in these systems and set ups, but since the toilet especially since toilet, he's waned slightly. Getting fucked over by fucking Samwise DeClerk and not being able to help when our forwards are getting a bit of physical stick reaaly got on my goat this year.
I hated Marsh when he wasnt in black. I totally hated his pass. Mocked it daily and hate it now, why couldn't he learn to speed it up like Bachop - then we'd be able unleash those wingers and fullback? It was shit
But like Junior rightfully said, he played to win and used his body and aggression on fluffybunnies.
Marshall would do a far better job today than Smith would back then, whatever that means.
So basically don't dine out too much on Marshall talking absolute nonsense today, he was a fucken good All Black. Slimly better than a somewhat limited, though brilliant Aaron Smith, I reckon
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@bones This is a good point. I mean, there is a really good argument that TJP has better all round rugby skills than Smith - just look at this try-scoring record!
However, Smith is so far above TJP in the core technical skills for the position they both play that it's not even debatable that Smith is a better halfback. The same argument holds true for any debate on the relative merits of Marshall and Smith (although, TBF, it's much more arguable that Marshall's general rugby skills make him a better halfback).
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Perhaps distribution versus physicality is the core here?
Current rules and playing conditions really tend towards a fast distribution, halfbacks are protected at the ruck.
Nugget has definitely raised the bar for passing skills from here on, that's a fine feat
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@siam said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@bones yeah, I was thinking of that too. Hard to remember Marshall and we weren't so stats savvy.
Was also wondering at support lines and backing up.
Marsh a bit more busy at the back clearing?
Look, different times, different rules, different lots of things.
Aaron Smith has been fucking fantastic. Functioned marvelously in these systems and set ups, but since the toilet especially since toilet, he's waned slightly. Getting fucked over by fucking Samwise DeClerk and not being able to help when our forwards are getting a bit of physical stick reaaly got on my goat this year.
I hated Marsh when he wasnt in black. I totally hated his pass. Mocked it daily and hate it now, why couldn't he learn to speed it up like Bachop - then we'd be able unleash those wingers and fullback? It was shit
But like Junior rightfully said, he played to win and used his body and aggression on fluffybunnies.
Marshall would do a far better job today than Smith would back then, whatever that means.
So basically don't dine out too much on Marshall talking absolute nonsense today, he was a fucken good All Black. Slimly better than a somewhat limited, though brilliant Aaron Smith, I reckon
That bit is just plain wrong. Imagine the space for Smith back then, I'm quite sure he and those around him would've scored way more tries than Marshall. Notice how many more tries our 8, 10 score than those that were with Marshall? Marshall today would be awful, and would be nowhere near halfback. He'd be the non passing centre we laugh about.
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@siam said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
Marshall would do a far better job today than Smith would back then, whatever that means.
So basically don't dine out too much on Marshall talking absolute nonsense today, he was a fucken good All Black. Slimly better than a somewhat limited, though brilliant Aaron Smith, I reckonReally? I think our game has moved on. Look at almost all of our best halfbacks and they're predominantly passers - Smith, TTT, Drummond, Webber etc. The Marshall-style halfbacks are largely out of the frame because they don't fit into the system at all - Pulu, Hall to name a couple. TJP is only there because of his prolific try-scoring and as insurance when we need to move away from our preferred system.
I'm also not sure that Smith would have been as bad as you think during Marshy's era. I would have thought that our frail first-fives and powerhouse wings and fullbacks would have absolutely loved playing with the extra time and space his quicker and more accurate pass would give. That's also without mentioning that a quick and accurate pass could have made up for our weak forward efforts to some extent.
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@siam said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@crucial said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
I wouldn’t want to be a 10 receiving Megs passes in this era. The chances of surviving a game without broken ribs would be low.
You wouldn't want to be something you have no chance of being?
WeirdYou obviously haven't been keeping up on the morality thread or whichever one it is.
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@junior said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@siam said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
Marshall would do a far better job today than Smith would back then, whatever that means.
So basically don't dine out too much on Marshall talking absolute nonsense today, he was a fucken good All Black. Slimly better than a somewhat limited, though brilliant Aaron Smith, I reckonReally? I think our game has moved on. Look at almost all of our best halfbacks and they're predominantly passers - Smith, TTT, Drummond, Webber etc. The Marshall-style halfbacks are largely out of the frame because they don't fit into the system at all - Pulu, Hall to name a couple. TJP is only there because of his prolific try-scoring and as insurance when we need to move away from our preferred system.
Yeah, TJP is pretty clearly in better form than Smith right now but Smith continues to be selected as his passing game is light years ahead. No doubt it is a massive part of the way the ABs play.
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Smith is a far better halfback than Marshall was. The quality of service is night and day. Very different styles of course and Marshall had a fine career. I think Marshall suited his era more than he would the current era - Pulu reminds me of a typical halfback from Marshall's time playing in the current day (obviously Marshall was far superior than Pulu is but just in terms of styles).
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Smith is also a gun organiser. He runs the attack half the time, and doesn't mind chewing out his forwards
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@crucial said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@mooshld said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
I say it every time we play. But "Come on Boys I need this win" My misses and all my outlaws are Irish! I can dine off this for the next year. But if we lose, I cop it nonstop.
Sadly if your in-laws are anything like many of the Irish 'fans' on the interweb you will cop it anyway. They will find a reason (like 'you played too hard').
Fern company excluded of course. We seem to attract a better quality
There was a time this was true. But since they have been so successful lately they are copping the same sort of criticism. When they beat England it was injuries when they beat Wales the ref was in their favour etc....
