McKenzie, Mo'unga etc
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@Chris said in McKenzie, Mo'unga etc:
@kpkanz said in McKenzie, Mo'unga etc:
@Chris said in McKenzie, Mo'unga etc:
@kpkanz said in McKenzie, Mo'unga etc:
@Chris said in McKenzie, Mo'unga etc:
@kpkanz said in McKenzie, Mo'unga etc:
@Chris said in McKenzie, Mo'unga etc:
@reprobate said in McKenzie, Mo'unga etc:
@Chris said in McKenzie, Mo'unga etc:
@reprobate said in McKenzie, Mo'unga etc:
@Chris said in McKenzie, Mo'unga etc:
@canefan said in McKenzie, Mo'unga etc:
I can't be bothered reading through the entire thread, so what I am about to say might have already been said. I read comments from some (Chris is the only one that springs to mind) that try to say Razor is in a tough spot and that justifies BBs inclusion at 10 due to a dearth of options. I call bullshit on that. Razor has fucked around with all of his selections, everything lacks direction. He had Plummer, who offers something different but along with other players in the squad Razor has shown no appetite to at least try them out in a proper game situation. Giving guys like Proctor, Plummer and others a serious audition, for example a start in the final Bledisloe test, would have been easy enough to do. He has done much the same as what Foster did, wasting valuable reps on known quantities that aren't going to provide a realistic answer to his problems, instead of rolling the dice and trying to find out exactly what he has
Yeah the problem with that is They had to give D Mac more and more game time because he wasn’ t getting the job done,they keep playing him against Fiji and Japan etc hoping he would show something but he didn’t.
So we are where we are with 2 shit fucking options.
And they may have known what they had in the other options playing them against Fiji and Japan would have shown fuck all.
So I call BS on that as well.McKenzie showed plenty: for once we've looked like we have the ability to beat a rush defence, and have a ten who can pass and put other players into space. Mistakes? Sure, but he was also the source of about 90% of the good things we did.
What actually happened as far as results go is that the team didn't get the job done in the last 20. Oh except for the 2nd Bledisloe, where McKenzie came on.
That's shit coaching, shit use of the bench, and shit on-field leadership, but somehow I don't expect you to call the two Scotts 2 shit fucking options.Nope they are not kicking out on the full and throwing dumb erratic passes when the last pass would have yielded tries or crabbing across field running our outsides out of space,that is on D Mac.
Are you trying to tell me 90% of all the good things we have done this year are down to D Mac lol.Then just play him we don't need the other 22.90% in terms of creativity in the backs yep. Who else has created anything? Jordie? Rieko?
All of the negatives you list are worse with Barrett, but you'd have to add numerous instances of kicking the ball away.What about the shit passing or are you blinded by that I would say 90% of the shit stuff in the backline is down to D Mac.
That's just BS. I think the only pass to ground the last 5-6 games from Dmac was that ridiculous one that slipped out of his hands against Japan.
The other passes where he created try scoring opportunities against Aus in Wellington the support runners didn't align properly.
I just can't wait to see us look 10x less threatening this weekend than we have all year without Dmac at 10.
I think people are seriously underestimating how much good work he has done for us this year.
Haha BS of course it wasn't D Macs fault he walks on water.
He fucked up at least 5 scoring chances with shit passing.Please name each incident, the game/opposition. Instead of just pulling out random numbers.
If you cant I'm not going to take that number at face value.
I haven’t got that much spare time on my hands to look back and pick out the fuck ups,there are too many I would need to hire a full time analyst to list them all.
Too many to list, yet you can't even name the 5 you were so confident of.
Don't throw out completely fake numbers then to try add credibility to your narrative.
Just makes you look impartial and biased instead of an objective observer.
Look they are all there to see I will quote what I see but do not need to defend myself to some random on the internet.
Open your eyes and go look for yourself,
You are calling me impartial when you only see the sun shining out of D Macs arse give me a break.That's fine. You claimed he bombed 5 tries, a very strong claim.
You can't point to exactly where for any of them. So just seems like your initial claim was BS.
Whatever, people see different things in players so we'll agree to disagree.
But at least don't just make things up to strengthen what you think is the 'right' opinion.
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@kpkanz said in McKenzie, Mo'unga etc:
@Chris said in McKenzie, Mo'unga etc:
@kpkanz said in McKenzie, Mo'unga etc:
@Chris said in McKenzie, Mo'unga etc:
@kpkanz said in McKenzie, Mo'unga etc:
@Chris said in McKenzie, Mo'unga etc:
@kpkanz said in McKenzie, Mo'unga etc:
@Chris said in McKenzie, Mo'unga etc:
@reprobate said in McKenzie, Mo'unga etc:
@Chris said in McKenzie, Mo'unga etc:
@reprobate said in McKenzie, Mo'unga etc:
@Chris said in McKenzie, Mo'unga etc:
@canefan said in McKenzie, Mo'unga etc:
I can't be bothered reading through the entire thread, so what I am about to say might have already been said. I read comments from some (Chris is the only one that springs to mind) that try to say Razor is in a tough spot and that justifies BBs inclusion at 10 due to a dearth of options. I call bullshit on that. Razor has fucked around with all of his selections, everything lacks direction. He had Plummer, who offers something different but along with other players in the squad Razor has shown no appetite to at least try them out in a proper game situation. Giving guys like Proctor, Plummer and others a serious audition, for example a start in the final Bledisloe test, would have been easy enough to do. He has done much the same as what Foster did, wasting valuable reps on known quantities that aren't going to provide a realistic answer to his problems, instead of rolling the dice and trying to find out exactly what he has
Yeah the problem with that is They had to give D Mac more and more game time because he wasn’ t getting the job done,they keep playing him against Fiji and Japan etc hoping he would show something but he didn’t.
So we are where we are with 2 shit fucking options.
And they may have known what they had in the other options playing them against Fiji and Japan would have shown fuck all.
So I call BS on that as well.McKenzie showed plenty: for once we've looked like we have the ability to beat a rush defence, and have a ten who can pass and put other players into space. Mistakes? Sure, but he was also the source of about 90% of the good things we did.
What actually happened as far as results go is that the team didn't get the job done in the last 20. Oh except for the 2nd Bledisloe, where McKenzie came on.
That's shit coaching, shit use of the bench, and shit on-field leadership, but somehow I don't expect you to call the two Scotts 2 shit fucking options.Nope they are not kicking out on the full and throwing dumb erratic passes when the last pass would have yielded tries or crabbing across field running our outsides out of space,that is on D Mac.
Are you trying to tell me 90% of all the good things we have done this year are down to D Mac lol.Then just play him we don't need the other 22.90% in terms of creativity in the backs yep. Who else has created anything? Jordie? Rieko?
All of the negatives you list are worse with Barrett, but you'd have to add numerous instances of kicking the ball away.What about the shit passing or are you blinded by that I would say 90% of the shit stuff in the backline is down to D Mac.
That's just BS. I think the only pass to ground the last 5-6 games from Dmac was that ridiculous one that slipped out of his hands against Japan.
The other passes where he created try scoring opportunities against Aus in Wellington the support runners didn't align properly.
I just can't wait to see us look 10x less threatening this weekend than we have all year without Dmac at 10.
I think people are seriously underestimating how much good work he has done for us this year.
Haha BS of course it wasn't D Macs fault he walks on water.
He fucked up at least 5 scoring chances with shit passing.Please name each incident, the game/opposition. Instead of just pulling out random numbers.
If you cant I'm not going to take that number at face value.
I haven’t got that much spare time on my hands to look back and pick out the fuck ups,there are too many I would need to hire a full time analyst to list them all.
Too many to list, yet you can't even name the 5 you were so confident of.
Don't throw out completely fake numbers then to try add credibility to your narrative.
Just makes you look impartial and biased instead of an objective observer.
Look they are all there to see I will quote what I see but do not need to defend myself to some random on the internet.
Open your eyes and go look for yourself,
You are calling me impartial when you only see the sun shining out of D Macs arse give me a break.That's fine. You claimed he bombed 5 tries, a very strong claim.
You can't point to exactly where for any of them. So just seems like your initial claim was BS.
Whatever, people see different things in players so we'll agree to disagree.
But at least don't just make things up to strengthen what you think is the 'right' opinion.
Nah I didn’t make that up there were that many shit passes that blew tries I can’t be fucked going through the footage to exactly pin point them but they are there.
Yep we do disagree,
If D Mac comes on and plays out of his skin and we win v England I will post on here well done.Because in the end I want to win every test.
But to me he hasn’t performed well enough yet. -
@Chris said in McKenzie, Mo'unga etc:
@kpkanz said in McKenzie, Mo'unga etc:
@Chris said in McKenzie, Mo'unga etc:
@kpkanz said in McKenzie, Mo'unga etc:
@Chris said in McKenzie, Mo'unga etc:
@kpkanz said in McKenzie, Mo'unga etc:
@Chris said in McKenzie, Mo'unga etc:
@kpkanz said in McKenzie, Mo'unga etc:
@Chris said in McKenzie, Mo'unga etc:
@reprobate said in McKenzie, Mo'unga etc:
@Chris said in McKenzie, Mo'unga etc:
@reprobate said in McKenzie, Mo'unga etc:
@Chris said in McKenzie, Mo'unga etc:
@canefan said in McKenzie, Mo'unga etc:
I can't be bothered reading through the entire thread, so what I am about to say might have already been said. I read comments from some (Chris is the only one that springs to mind) that try to say Razor is in a tough spot and that justifies BBs inclusion at 10 due to a dearth of options. I call bullshit on that. Razor has fucked around with all of his selections, everything lacks direction. He had Plummer, who offers something different but along with other players in the squad Razor has shown no appetite to at least try them out in a proper game situation. Giving guys like Proctor, Plummer and others a serious audition, for example a start in the final Bledisloe test, would have been easy enough to do. He has done much the same as what Foster did, wasting valuable reps on known quantities that aren't going to provide a realistic answer to his problems, instead of rolling the dice and trying to find out exactly what he has
Yeah the problem with that is They had to give D Mac more and more game time because he wasn’ t getting the job done,they keep playing him against Fiji and Japan etc hoping he would show something but he didn’t.
So we are where we are with 2 shit fucking options.
And they may have known what they had in the other options playing them against Fiji and Japan would have shown fuck all.
So I call BS on that as well.McKenzie showed plenty: for once we've looked like we have the ability to beat a rush defence, and have a ten who can pass and put other players into space. Mistakes? Sure, but he was also the source of about 90% of the good things we did.
What actually happened as far as results go is that the team didn't get the job done in the last 20. Oh except for the 2nd Bledisloe, where McKenzie came on.
That's shit coaching, shit use of the bench, and shit on-field leadership, but somehow I don't expect you to call the two Scotts 2 shit fucking options.Nope they are not kicking out on the full and throwing dumb erratic passes when the last pass would have yielded tries or crabbing across field running our outsides out of space,that is on D Mac.
Are you trying to tell me 90% of all the good things we have done this year are down to D Mac lol.Then just play him we don't need the other 22.90% in terms of creativity in the backs yep. Who else has created anything? Jordie? Rieko?
All of the negatives you list are worse with Barrett, but you'd have to add numerous instances of kicking the ball away.What about the shit passing or are you blinded by that I would say 90% of the shit stuff in the backline is down to D Mac.
That's just BS. I think the only pass to ground the last 5-6 games from Dmac was that ridiculous one that slipped out of his hands against Japan.
The other passes where he created try scoring opportunities against Aus in Wellington the support runners didn't align properly.
I just can't wait to see us look 10x less threatening this weekend than we have all year without Dmac at 10.
I think people are seriously underestimating how much good work he has done for us this year.
Haha BS of course it wasn't D Macs fault he walks on water.
He fucked up at least 5 scoring chances with shit passing.Please name each incident, the game/opposition. Instead of just pulling out random numbers.
If you cant I'm not going to take that number at face value.
I haven’t got that much spare time on my hands to look back and pick out the fuck ups,there are too many I would need to hire a full time analyst to list them all.
Too many to list, yet you can't even name the 5 you were so confident of.
Don't throw out completely fake numbers then to try add credibility to your narrative.
Just makes you look impartial and biased instead of an objective observer.
Look they are all there to see I will quote what I see but do not need to defend myself to some random on the internet.
Open your eyes and go look for yourself,
You are calling me impartial when you only see the sun shining out of D Macs arse give me a break.That's fine. You claimed he bombed 5 tries, a very strong claim.
You can't point to exactly where for any of them. So just seems like your initial claim was BS.
Whatever, people see different things in players so we'll agree to disagree.
But at least don't just make things up to strengthen what you think is the 'right' opinion.
Nah I didn’t make that up there were that many shit passes that blew tries I can’t be fucked going through the footage to exactly pin point them but they are there.
Yep we do disagree,
If D Mac comes on and plays out of his skin and we win v England I will post on here well done.Because in the end I want to win every test.
But to me he hasn’t performed well enough yet.Saying there were so many examples of this that you can't even point to 3 examples is not convincing.
Agree to disagree.
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@kpkanz said in McKenzie, Mo'unga etc:
@Chris said in McKenzie, Mo'unga etc:
@kpkanz said in McKenzie, Mo'unga etc:
@Chris said in McKenzie, Mo'unga etc:
@kpkanz said in McKenzie, Mo'unga etc:
@Chris said in McKenzie, Mo'unga etc:
@kpkanz said in McKenzie, Mo'unga etc:
@Chris said in McKenzie, Mo'unga etc:
@kpkanz said in McKenzie, Mo'unga etc:
@Chris said in McKenzie, Mo'unga etc:
@reprobate said in McKenzie, Mo'unga etc:
@Chris said in McKenzie, Mo'unga etc:
@reprobate said in McKenzie, Mo'unga etc:
@Chris said in McKenzie, Mo'unga etc:
@canefan said in McKenzie, Mo'unga etc:
I can't be bothered reading through the entire thread, so what I am about to say might have already been said. I read comments from some (Chris is the only one that springs to mind) that try to say Razor is in a tough spot and that justifies BBs inclusion at 10 due to a dearth of options. I call bullshit on that. Razor has fucked around with all of his selections, everything lacks direction. He had Plummer, who offers something different but along with other players in the squad Razor has shown no appetite to at least try them out in a proper game situation. Giving guys like Proctor, Plummer and others a serious audition, for example a start in the final Bledisloe test, would have been easy enough to do. He has done much the same as what Foster did, wasting valuable reps on known quantities that aren't going to provide a realistic answer to his problems, instead of rolling the dice and trying to find out exactly what he has
Yeah the problem with that is They had to give D Mac more and more game time because he wasn’ t getting the job done,they keep playing him against Fiji and Japan etc hoping he would show something but he didn’t.
So we are where we are with 2 shit fucking options.
And they may have known what they had in the other options playing them against Fiji and Japan would have shown fuck all.
So I call BS on that as well.McKenzie showed plenty: for once we've looked like we have the ability to beat a rush defence, and have a ten who can pass and put other players into space. Mistakes? Sure, but he was also the source of about 90% of the good things we did.
What actually happened as far as results go is that the team didn't get the job done in the last 20. Oh except for the 2nd Bledisloe, where McKenzie came on.
That's shit coaching, shit use of the bench, and shit on-field leadership, but somehow I don't expect you to call the two Scotts 2 shit fucking options.Nope they are not kicking out on the full and throwing dumb erratic passes when the last pass would have yielded tries or crabbing across field running our outsides out of space,that is on D Mac.
Are you trying to tell me 90% of all the good things we have done this year are down to D Mac lol.Then just play him we don't need the other 22.90% in terms of creativity in the backs yep. Who else has created anything? Jordie? Rieko?
All of the negatives you list are worse with Barrett, but you'd have to add numerous instances of kicking the ball away.What about the shit passing or are you blinded by that I would say 90% of the shit stuff in the backline is down to D Mac.
That's just BS. I think the only pass to ground the last 5-6 games from Dmac was that ridiculous one that slipped out of his hands against Japan.
The other passes where he created try scoring opportunities against Aus in Wellington the support runners didn't align properly.
I just can't wait to see us look 10x less threatening this weekend than we have all year without Dmac at 10.
I think people are seriously underestimating how much good work he has done for us this year.
Haha BS of course it wasn't D Macs fault he walks on water.
He fucked up at least 5 scoring chances with shit passing.Please name each incident, the game/opposition. Instead of just pulling out random numbers.
If you cant I'm not going to take that number at face value.
I haven’t got that much spare time on my hands to look back and pick out the fuck ups,there are too many I would need to hire a full time analyst to list them all.
Too many to list, yet you can't even name the 5 you were so confident of.
Don't throw out completely fake numbers then to try add credibility to your narrative.
Just makes you look impartial and biased instead of an objective observer.
Look they are all there to see I will quote what I see but do not need to defend myself to some random on the internet.
Open your eyes and go look for yourself,
You are calling me impartial when you only see the sun shining out of D Macs arse give me a break.That's fine. You claimed he bombed 5 tries, a very strong claim.
You can't point to exactly where for any of them. So just seems like your initial claim was BS.
Whatever, people see different things in players so we'll agree to disagree.
But at least don't just make things up to strengthen what you think is the 'right' opinion.
Nah I didn’t make that up there were that many shit passes that blew tries I can’t be fucked going through the footage to exactly pin point them but they are there.
Yep we do disagree,
If D Mac comes on and plays out of his skin and we win v England I will post on here well done.Because in the end I want to win every test.
But to me he hasn’t performed well enough yet.Saying there were so many examples of this that you can't even point to 3 examples is not convincing.
Agree to disagree.
In the second half McKenzie was involved in two breakouts, one with the flick pass that again went begging and a third down the left sideline on a counter-attack that almost produced a stunning try to Cortez Ratima.
The long-range effort was ruled out over a forward pass from McKenzie as he tried to offload inside to Will Jordan as he was pulled down on the touchline.
Bad pass inside to unmarked Reece which would have led to a try.V Argentina
Damian McKenzie forcing him to scramble back to retrieve the ball. Under pressure McKenzie attempted another pass that went awry missing its mark again and putting his team further under the pump.The All Black No 10 was looking dangerous against the Wallabies in Sydney opening them up a number of times only for the last pass to go astray multiple times.
During a key passage in the second half, McKenzie attempted a backhand flick to the inside support runner after a cross-field chip had been gathered and sent inside to the All Blacks support.
McKenzie blew a certain try with an audacious attempted flick ball to an unmarked Tamaiti Williams – and threw one other rogue second-half pass to his midfield.
Cometh the hour, cometh the mistakes from Damian McKenzie and the inevitable sense that for every game he wins for his team there will be another he throws away.
. Then McKenzie threw the wrong kind of no-look pass - one where none of the All Blacks were looking where the ball was going - and Rieko Ioane ended up tackled over his own goal line.
McKenzie produced a hot and cold performance in his fourth consecutive start in the No. 10 jersey and was directly involved in the horror sequence that led to Argentina’s match-winning try in the 38-30 upset.
The All Blacks won a lineout off an Argentina throw on halfway but lost 50 metres and conceded a scrum five metres out from their own try line after captain Ardie Savea and McKenzie both threw wild passes that missed their intended targets.
They were costly errors as veteran Agustin Creevy scored four phases after the scrum to give Argentina the lead with 11 minutes to go before first-five Santiago Carreras iced the win with a late penalty, denying the All Blacks a bonus point.
All B quotes from reviews of test matches this year there are many more.
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@Chris To be clear, there are three 'mistakes' in here - it's just repeated coverage of the same three.
One was the pass back during the Argentina game - which Beauden Barrett and Jordie Barrett were both in a position to catch but each left to the other brother.
The other was the offload attempt after getting on the outside of the Australian defence. It almost resulted in an excellent try but McKenzie wasn't able to get the ball away while also getting on the outside of Valetini.
And the third was the stupid flick pass - that one I'll absolutely give you. But also, it was McKenzie that gained them 30 metres in that same passage of play which had them just 10 metres out from the try line. So while he bombed the try, without him on the park the All Blacks would have been back on the halfway line instead of defending a scrum 10 metres out from the opposition goal line.
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@Mr-Fish said in McKenzie, Mo'unga etc:
@Chris To be clear, there are three 'mistakes' in here - it's just repeated coverage of the same three.
One was the pass back during the Argentina game - which Beauden Barrett and Jordie Barrett were both in a position to catch but each left to the other brother.
The other was the offload attempt after getting on the outside of the Australian defence. It almost resulted in an excellent try but McKenzie wasn't able to get the ball away while also getting on the outside of Valetini.
And the third was the stupid flick pass - that one I'll absolutely give you. But also, it was McKenzie that gained them 30 metres in that same passage of play which had them just 10 metres out from the try line. So while he bombed the try, without him on the park the All Blacks would have been back on the halfway line instead of defending a scrum 10 metres out from the opposition goal line.
There was also the inside pass to an unmarked Reece inside the oppositions 22 that was thrown behind him to fuck up a try.
and I could look and find a lot more getting timed out penalty kick etc . -
We are at a funny place with 10. We've moved from DC to BB, RM and DM. The last three are full of x factor and have been raved about based on excellence at super rugby. In turn as a result every young 10 wants to be one of those but very few want to be DC.
At the same time the quality of Super rugby has dropped especially in the last 5 years meaning that a test match skill set is simply never required to win.Where does that leave us? Our best three 10s are flawed but can handle test match speed and pressure (maybe not always at 10 but certainly at 15).
We have no young 10s who have shown they are up to that level of pace and pressure at 10(see lower calibre of super rugby) and we wont really know who might for a year or two.
Better to bring them into a settled team and just change a 10 to try them than a team still getting used to new systems, structures and approach.
Until we get the loosies sorted then we will be well on the way.
(Probably worth giving plummer 30 mins in the third bledisloe all the same unless in training they recognised he wasnt quite ready yet). -
Were just in that gap when the old hands are at the end of their careers but there are no young bucks close enough to replace them yet. 2024 and 2025 are going to be a bit meh until we get a decent 10.
(see canes results for the first 15 years of super and blues results after spencer for where we are). -
Is Tom Taylor still playing🤪? I'd take a guy like him these days. Fark I'd take a poor man's Grant Fox. Just a fella who can kick for field position and can shift the pill. We have plenty of talent out wide.
Will be hilarious if BB plays a blinder though. Plenty of humble 🐦⬛ .
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God, this thread is like banging your head against a wall. Like I said way up the thread, funny how it’s only a certain fan base digging their heels in here. End of the day, people can push narratives however they want for players they prefer. Come 2026(possibly earlier), we will be able to get all the answers.
End of the day, Dmac has been our best option this year and has been trusted by the coaches to deliver the game plan. They have stuck with him up until now so let’s see if there are any significant changes to it with Beaudy stepping in. I trust BB to deliver, I just prefer an eye on the future and these are tests Dmac should be starting to gain that experience as the potential guy for us moving forward.
Time will tell.
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in McKenzie, Mo'unga etc:
Is Tom Taylor still playing🤪? I'd take a guy like him these days. Fark I'd take a poor man's Grant Fox. Just a fella who can kick for field position and can shift the pill. We have plenty of talent out wide.
Will be hilarious if BB plays a blinder though. Plenty of humble 🐦⬛ .
Tom Taylor's debut was possibly the best we've seen from a 10 in the last 20 years. Lima Sopoaga's might just pip it but until that point in time, Taylor's was just so incredibly composed and assured.
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@Chris As others have mentioned, there are only three incidents here.
The first in the Argentina game, Dmac passed it to Beauden/Jordie, both of which looked at the other and didn't catch it. You also fail to mention how the entire backline was scrambling at that moment because ARDIE had just thrown a pass 20 metres over the backline and they all are running back scrambling. Firstly, that's not even a bombed try which you claimed you were bringing examples of, and secondly this was primarily on Ardie, no chance Dmac takes the blame for this.
The second example, was the offload attempt after getting on the outside of the Australian defense, where it was slightly forward to Jordan. Dmac was the sole reason this opportunity was created in the first place, but even this was not a 'bombed try'. To call skinning a defender on the outside and then not offloading perfectly at pace to Jordan a 'bombed try' is ridiculous. The only reason Jordan even got into the gap was because the pass was forward so by definition there was no bombing here, if he passes it backwards Jordan gets tackled.
Your only valid example was the failed flick attempt to Williams on the inside. THAT was a bombed try, and probably his worst play of the year.
Your other example of his pass to an 'unmarked' Reece. Firstly, that breakout started with McKenzie (once again) creating something and running from near our 22 and running the entire field up to their 22. Reece had a defender between him and McKenzie so was not unmarked. And even the commentators said Reece overran his line to the point that the pass wasnt on.
So really only ONE bombed try.
Thank you at least for providing examples.
Because that one flick pass is the only 'bombed try' I remember.
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@kpkanz thanks for saving me from having to type all that bro.
@Chris I think you need to remember that 'walking on water' isn't the real bar here - all McKenzie has to do to deserve selection is be better than Barrett - and I honestly don't understand how anyone who has watched rugby over the last couple of years could think he's not.
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@reprobate said in McKenzie, Mo'unga etc:
@kpkanz thanks for saving me from having to type all that bro.
@Chris I think you need to remember that 'walking on water' isn't the real bar here - all McKenzie has to do to deserve selection is be better than Barrett - and I honestly don't understand how anyone who has watched rugby over the last couple of years could think he's not.
But I am not arguing Barret is better he isn’t they are both shit.
I am saying D Mac has been poor I never said Barrett was better. -
@kpkanz said in McKenzie, Mo'unga etc:
@Chris As others have mentioned, there are only three incidents here.
The first in the Argentina game, Dmac passed it to Beauden/Jordie, both of which looked at the other and didn't catch it. You also fail to mention how the entire backline was scrambling at that moment because ARDIE had just thrown a pass 20 metres over the backline and they all are running back scrambling. Firstly, that's not even a bombed try which you claimed you were bringing examples of, and secondly this was primarily on Ardie, no chance Dmac takes the blame for this.
The second example, was the offload attempt after getting on the outside of the Australian defense, where it was slightly forward to Jordan. Dmac was the sole reason this opportunity was created in the first place, but even this was not a 'bombed try'. To call skinning a defender on the outside and then not offloading perfectly at pace to Jordan a 'bombed try' is ridiculous. The only reason Jordan even got into the gap was because the pass was forward so by definition there was no bombing here, if he passes it backwards Jordan gets tackled.
Your only valid example was the failed flick attempt to Williams on the inside. THAT was a bombed try, and probably his worst play of the year.
Your other example of his pass to an 'unmarked' Reece. Firstly, that breakout started with McKenzie (once again) creating something and running from near our 22 and running the entire field up to their 22. Reece had a defender between him and McKenzie so was not unmarked. And even the commentators said Reece overran his line to the point that the pass wasnt on.
So really only ONE bombed try.
Thank you at least for providing examples.
Because that one flick pass is the only 'bombed try' I remember.
No it is not there are 3 there.D Mac threw the passes, but for you everyone else on the field was at fault.
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The first in the Argentina game, Dmac passed it to Beauden/Jordie, both of which looked at the other and didn't catch it.
Looked to me like he heard the call and then Jordie moved away from where he was headed. If he moved the way he was facing then the pass was fine.
So one bad bomb in my eyes. Others a product of attacking on the edge. -
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@reprobate said in McKenzie, Mo'unga etc:
There's definitely a problem with our outsides being so flat that you can only actually hit them with a forward pass, that's been happening for a while.
I think earlier in the season they were using a more staggered backline. They seemed to quite often be using someone at first receiver to fire the ball back to DMac in a sort of second line - and then use the extra space to get the ball wide. There's a few examples here.
The Crusaders seemed to be trying something similar.
Don't think it worked for either of them and I wonder if that's what Razor and Leon disagreed about. I think we've gone back to a flatter backline since Leon departed.
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@Chris-B Bit of yes and no for me, McKenzie got crunched vs Japan when someone threw a hospital pass to him in the 2nd line - so it's certainly still being used somewhat, though I agree less than previous. McKenzie does play in the line a lot, which is something I really like as those are the 2 options for beating the rush - beat it by running your play in close, or get right around it - and it keeps the defence honest. Mounga to me has always played too much in the 2nd line, and Barrett when he plays in the line is so slow and telegraphed that he can be ignored unless it is broken play.
I wonder if some of the wingers being so flat is an artifact of the cross-kick obsession too. Either way it is really annoying - and the McKenzie 'errors' pointed out are great examples (I'm repeating what I said at the time here) in that he hits Will Jordan in the breadbasket with a pass, and it's forward. He passes one behind Reece and that's a blown try - but if he had hit Reece in the breadbasket that would have been forward too. Now those are both just running support lines to flat, not cross-kick initial formation problems, but it is a long term issue I think, and with all the extra TMO checks these days it will continue to cost us what would have been tries in the past.
