All Blacks 2024
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@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@LatsToTheMax said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
Some posters seem to forget we played with 13 men at a key part of the game.
Don't think anyone's forgotten the poor discipline at key parts of the game we've seen creeping back in.
I seem to recall it was a feature of Foster's teams as well.
Which, considering we've gone backwards, kinda proves the point that Robertson (a) isn't the coaching Jesus he was hyped up to be or (b) both are equally good coaches and there's deeper problems.
You've hated Razor since day one and didn't even want him as coach. You're comparing 6 tests to 4 years of substandard, mediocre horse manure. I'm disheartened as any one else about the current results and honestly expected more from this side this year but give me a break. You want Razor to fail to prove your narrative.
I've hated Robertson from day one? Fucking news to me when I wanted him as AB coach after Ireland III last year.
My narrative is we've gone backwards, the new coach might not be the dogs bollocks, and the issues might not be with the coaching skills. If you think having that opinion is wanting Robertson to fail, I'd love to know your logic.
Not being a Razor cheerleader = hate. This is the modern way.
Reality is that Sir Graham was right - he would have benefitted from getting out of the Canterbury environment and coaching elsewhere. Then you do the learning - ideally with someone else's international team - and get the pressure, have to build different systems with new players, etc. After three titles, the next 4 were 'more of the same' coaching-wise.
I think you're seeing that approach in the selections. Almost all of the coaches have Canterbury connections. If in doubt, Razor's leaning back to his roots - hence Chay, Havili, Bell etc ... It's fine as long as it works - but if it doesn't, you're in trouble.
The bigger risk is that the 'path to the ABs through Canterbury' meme is real and takes hold. And then you hollow out all the fringer players who just head overseas because they don't see the pathway to higher honours. As someone said above (and very insightfully), it's a self-fulfilling prophecy.
I want the ABs to win. But I also think the problems ran deeper than Foster being a shithouse coach. We've lost our coaching IP overseas, we aren't innovating at the top level - Rugby in this country is in a tough place. If I wanted to invest, I'd invest in coaching, not bringing back players from overseas (Mo'unga/Fritzel).
I never realized Ted said that, but he's dead right. He didn't need to stay at the Crusaders for 7 seasons.
If he didn't get the ABs job, what would he have done? Just stayed at the Crusaders?
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@Machpants said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@LatsToTheMax said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@frugby said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
Random thoughts.
All is not well in Razorland. First and foremost, it seems the ABs are not respecting test rugby.- Not taking points when they are on offer. The default position is now to go for the corner regardless of the situation. In the McCaw days, points first and the corner would be taken when the situation demanded it.
Funnily enough a decision to take the three at 28-14 turned out to be quite handy, so not sure this is entirely true.
And had they converted most, if not all the certain tries they didn't score, taking the 3 was immaterial.
But they never do, because they lack clear heads, calmness in action, and leadership in direction. With Razor going 'oh that's awesome' no on eis going to try to improve from playing Harlem Globetrotters without the skills to back it up
How many shots did they turn down?
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@Canerbry said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@junior Precisely. Shittest All Blacks cattle in living memory this year.
This is probably an important point, though not the point you are trying to make, when it comes to Razor. This is the first time he's coached a team that isn't absolutely fucking stacked compared to opposition teams in a long time, if ever. In fact he actually has to get this team beating other teams that, on paper, are stronger than his team. That's all new to him.
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@Victor-Meldrew I disagree with the premise, I think we've been all over the place but I don't think we've got worse from test to test.
30 minutes into the most recent test we were looking totally dominant and everyone was going 'ah yeah we're destroying them (but it's just the wallabies)'. The first half in SA was the best rugby I've seen from us this year. Argentina loss 2nd half was the worst. So I don't think there is any sort of consistent deterioration in performance - though there are certainly problems that are recurring and have not yet been solved.On field leadership I do think is a problem - we've lost Smith, Retallick and Whitelock - which really is a big deal. I don't think Scott Barrett is a great captain (or playing very well), I don't think TJ or BB are calm enough under pressure to be good leaders - and of course TJ and Cane are both in their last year.
Now of course the coach does choose the captain and the leadership group, but it's inarguably a lesser pool of leadership players that he has to draw from, and it's the young guys who have largely been leading the way with performance (Taylor the exception).Our selection and use of the bench has been shit - that's on the coach - and is a sizeable factor in the last 20 performance. Inexperience form the young guys, a lack of composure and leadership form the old guys, and trying to implement a new game plan under pressure (SA not Oz) and fatigue and subs means that last period of the game is the toughest to get right. To be fair, they are trying things - not the changes I would advocate, but I don't think it is being ignored.
Our kick chase and (lack of) protection for our kick receivers is the thing that grates on me as not being addressed.
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Anecdotally down the pub, at work etc - patience is wearing pretty thin with Robertson. I think this is directly related to how he was promoted as "the answer to all our problems"
Granted this is an Auckland vox pop but I haven't heard anyone complaining about not selecting Akira or Sotutu, more the dumb rugby that is being played .
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@No-Quarter said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@Canerbry said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@junior Precisely. Shittest All Blacks cattle in living memory this year.
This is probably an important point, though not the point you are trying to make, when it comes to Razor. This is the first time he's coached a team that isn't absolutely fucking stacked compared to opposition teams in a long time, if ever. In fact he actually has to get this team beating other teams that, on paper, are stronger than his team. That's all new to him.
This shifting goalposts argument was expected.
For the last four years, it was a shitty coach.
Now it is shitty players.
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@Windows97 said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
What next appears to be throwing the ball around furiously and hoping someone finds a gap.
I put that in the BBBB bucket.
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I would agree that its been a real mixed bag and agree with your points generally.
It's significant that Argentina put a record amount of points on us and we scored no tries in the second SA test. Comprehensive failure in defense and attack in different games.
So these two low points in both attack and in defense were never achieved by Foster.
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@gt12 maybe its the realization the players arent upto it, whereas last year given Fozzies track record, it had to be him?
That said, I'm not convinced of either, I think Fozzie was better than he got credit for when you reflect on his time at the helm, I think Razor still has alot to learn, but he seems to be making some odd decisions, we always knew he was a bit more innovative and likely to (despite current evidence) take a few punts, but so far, like alot of Fozzies tenure, there appears no clear vision of the bigger picture.
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
I think Fozzie was better than he got credit for when you reflect on his time at the helm,
Wayne Smith really rated him. It stings, but it's true
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I'm interested in seeing two things before I throw my toys out of the cot:
- Patience and accuracy. In Bled 1 we tore the Aussies apart often in the first half where arguable decision making and poor execution prevented it from becoming a bloodbath. Admittedly this was against the Wobblies, but we have looked good on occasion against all opposition so hopefully there's a plan manifesting itself sporadically.
- Closing out games as the dominant team. We need to address the final quarter.
It's against the ninth ranked team, we're at home (even if it's Wellington) so there
shouldn't bearen't any excuses. -
@antipodean 10th ranked now.
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@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024:
I'm interested in seeing two things before I throw my toys out of the cot:
- Patience and accuracy. In Bled 1 we tore the Aussies apart often in the first half where arguable decision making and poor execution prevented it from becoming a bloodbath. Admittedly this was against the Wobblies, but we have looked good on occasion against all opposition so hopefully there's a plan manifesting itself sporadically.
- Closing out games as the dominant team. We need to address the final quarter.
It's against the ninth ranked team, we're at home (even if it's Wellington) so there
shouldn't bearen't any excuses.We've been here before. Trying too hard, stuffing up chances on the last pass. We need to exhibit some control and some patience. Do the basics well
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The other option is to get a sacrificial lamb from one of the multitude of assistants to do a video critiquing the referees, assistants and TMOs we've had. Use that to whip up the lunatics on social media to threaten those referees, assistants and TMOs and their families. Having subjected them to vile abuse they'll subconsciously (?) favour us in an effort to not have to go through that experience again and we'll go back to dominating.
Pity Leon's already left.
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I have a question that one of the Hurricanes posters @canefan @Canes4life etc. might be able to shed some light on.
Who was responsible for coaching the attack off set-piece or first phases at the Hurricanes - was it only Blyeendaal or did Holland have some contribution as well? l know Blyeendaal had the title of attack/backs coach while Holland was the head coach, the reason I ask is because I've been looking through Hurricanes clips from 2021-2023 compared to 2016-2020 and there seems to be a noticeable difference in their strike moves around the period Blyeendaal joined the Canes, a bit more off the ball movement, deception and switch plays., I've heard that Blyeendaal is very highly rated and Leinster narrowed him down as the best candidate in their worldwide search for a new attack coach. So what input did Holland have into their attack? Did he oversee the unstructured attack while he was the head coach?
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@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2024:
@Canerbry said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@junior Precisely. Shittest All Blacks cattle in living memory this year.
This is probably an important point, though not the point you are trying to make, when it comes to Razor. This is the first time he's coached a team that isn't absolutely fucking stacked compared to opposition teams in a long time, if ever. In fact he actually has to get this team beating other teams that, on paper, are stronger than his team. That's all new to him.
That’s not true.
When he first started out in super rugby, the crusaders weren’t stacked, they were full of players yet to make their mark. Mounga being a prime example and they had lost players such as McCaw,Carter.
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@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2024:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2024:
@Canerbry said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@junior Precisely. Shittest All Blacks cattle in living memory this year.
This is probably an important point, though not the point you are trying to make, when it comes to Razor. This is the first time he's coached a team that isn't absolutely fucking stacked compared to opposition teams in a long time, if ever. In fact he actually has to get this team beating other teams that, on paper, are stronger than his team. That's all new to him.
That’s not true.
When he first started out in super rugby, the crusaders weren’t stacked, they were full of players yet to make their mark. Mounga being a prime example and they had lost players such as McCaw,Carter.
He took over after the barren Todd Blackadder era didn't he?
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2024:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2024:
@Canerbry said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@junior Precisely. Shittest All Blacks cattle in living memory this year.
This is probably an important point, though not the point you are trying to make, when it comes to Razor. This is the first time he's coached a team that isn't absolutely fucking stacked compared to opposition teams in a long time, if ever. In fact he actually has to get this team beating other teams that, on paper, are stronger than his team. That's all new to him.
That’s not true.
When he first started out in super rugby, the crusaders weren’t stacked, they were full of players yet to make their mark. Mounga being a prime example and they had lost players such as McCaw,Carter.
He took over after the barren Todd Blackadder era didn't he?
Yes he did. They still had strong forwards but their backs were a mixed bag.
Expectations were low at the crusaders
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@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024:
The other option is to get a sacrificial lamb from one of the multitude of assistants to do a video critiquing the referees, assistants and TMOs we've had. Use that to whip up the lunatics on social media to threaten those referees, assistants and TMOs and their families. Having subjected them to vile abuse they'll subconsciously (?) favour us in an effort to not have to go through that experience again and we'll go back to dominating.
Pity Leon's already left.
Seems no one is a fan of the South African approach. So we're left with better selection, coaching, leadership and execution.
