All Blacks 2024
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@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
I'm not convinced that Cane is appreciably slower than Papali'i. He gets into the wide channels pretty damn well based on the last two outings. He's practically light speed compared to the glacial Blackadder.
You can play either of them but that's not where the issue lies.
Right, so now EB is not only ineffective but he doesn't actually get anywhere.
Despite all the stats showing him making a shitload of tackles and carries - stats which are, y'know, kinda hard to rack up without being where the ball is.
Did you watch him ponderously cover and get burned? Or where a front rower left him behind chasing a kick in support? He's fucking slow. Like gumboots in mud slow.
His lack of pace is indefensible.
Well fuck me, that reflects pretty badly on all these players who are faster than him. I guess they must be using their extra pace to get out of the way so they don't have to make tackles or carries.
Probably busy using their speed to get onside after he makes his passive tackles...
The problem with using statistics without qualifiers is neatly summed up by asking chatgpt to rank players based on the stats available at https://super.rugby/therugbychampionship/fixtures/
Here’s a ranking of New Zealand players based on both attack and defense statistics, combining key attack metrics (meters gained, carries) and defense metrics (tackles made, tackle completion):
Combined Ranking (Attack and Defense):
Savea- Attack: 44 meters, 18 carries, 5 defenders beaten, 2 clean breaks, 5 points
- Defense: 12 tackles, 100% tackle completion
Jordan
- Attack: 84 meters, 9 carries, 3 defenders beaten, 2 clean breaks, 10 points
- Defense: 4 tackles, 66.67% tackle completion
Blackadder
- Attack: 14 meters, 7 carries, 7 passes, 1 offload
- Defense: 20 tackles, 86.96% tackle completion, 2 turnovers won
Barrett (Beauden)
- Attack: 36 meters, 7 carries, 4 defenders beaten, 1 clean break, 2 try assists
- Defense: 8 tackles, 80% tackle completion
Now does that correlate with what people recall from the first game against South Africa..?
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Fuck Roy Keane
Dirty, dirty c*unt
Don't want any of his 'morals' in rugby union thank you very much
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@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks 2024:
Fuck Roy Keane
Dirty, dirty c*unt
Don't want any of his 'morals' in rugby union thank you very much
In itself, a fair enough point of view .... but is this responding to something?
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@Jet said in All Blacks 2024:
@stodders said in All Blacks 2024:
Why have the ABs become more beatable over the years? The IP has been given away to rivals who now know how to prepare for them.
In recent times:
Exhibit A - Joe Schmidt with Ireland.
Exhibit B - Gatland with the Lions.
Exhibit C - Tony Brown with the Boks
Erasmus: Understanding the All Blacks’ Mindset is Key to Springboks' Recent Success
Springboks coach Rassie Erasmus believes his South African side better understands the All Blacks' mentality.
Professionalism has negated the strengths NZ once had. Players and coaches go to the highest bidder. The ABs need to develop a new culture, a new DNA that binds the players, coaches and fans together again. Tricky spot to be in. I feel revolution is in the air, because evolution is not working.
That picture disgusts me.
They are cozying up and condescending in equal measure. It's all mind games. Like Kolisi saying he was "so proud of Ardie". It puts you on a pedestal above the person you're paying the compliment to.
I actually do like the Roy Keane style......he hates lads shaking hands in the tunnel before games and swapping shirts on the pitch after a bad loss etc. Youre supposed to be going into battle.
In the first test in Ellis park Rieko got bundled into touch unceremoniously by De Allende.
Rieko was flat on his back and stuck his hand up for De Allende to pick him up.
De Allende just left him there and strode off with flared nostrils and chest puffed out.We are carrying on like we are the little brother in the fight.
Sure grab a beer with your opposite number in the sheds, but this Kolisi shite of the arm round the shoulder of Sititi giving it the old "well done young man you played well, keep the head down and work hard and youll go places". its a load of nonsense. You should be trying to break his ribs every time he gets the ball.
They are killing us with kindness while the knife is in the back. You wouldnt see them pulling stunts like that with Brad Thorn or Jerome Kaino.
Its mans work out there and we need to step up.
This is what I was referencing re: Roy Keane @MajorRage
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According to this article it appears that talk of Dmac's departure is premature.
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@stodders said in All Blacks 2024:
Why have the ABs become more beatable over the years? The IP has been given away to rivals who now know how to prepare for them.
In recent times:
Exhibit A - Joe Schmidt with Ireland.
Exhibit B - Gatland with the Lions.
Exhibit C - Tony Brown with the Boks
Exhibit D - Dave Rennie with Australia
Exhibit E - Kieran Crowley with Canada…
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@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024:
The Foster revisionism is truly amazing.
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@kpkanz said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@Yeahtheboys said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
The Foster revisionism is truly amazing.Says the bloke coming up with an alternative universe to his liking.
Every time I see somebody claiming "revisionism" - I think... "ahhh, here we go - this is going to be some classic historical fiction".
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@antipodean that looks more like the problem with using chatGPT to interpret stats to me.
I know what I'm seeing - and that's a guy with a big work-rate making a heap of tackles and carries. That's backed up by the stats.
What you are seeing is an alleged 'ineffective' which can't really be backed up with any data publicly available, and anecdote of certain game situations where he's looked slow which frankly is worthless.
Firstly, maybe he was slow because he had just made 3 tackles and the other player hadn't?
Secondly, I'm quicker than Jerry Collins, but I wouldn't have been a great selection ahead of him on the flank.
Some of rugby is a short sprint game, but loose forward play is more like a bronco test. EB won't do great at the former, but will do well at the latter. -
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
Firstly, maybe he was slow because he had just made 3 tackles and the other player hadn't?
nah, he's just slow
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@nzzp said in All Blacks 2024:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
Firstly, maybe he was slow because he had just made 3 tackles and the other player hadn't?
nah, he's just slow
It's not like he's playing on the wing bro.
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@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2024:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
Firstly, maybe he was slow because he had just made 3 tackles and the other player hadn't?
nah, he's just slow
It's not like he's playing on the wing bro.
Look, there's a lot to like with him, but he's very limited. And before he got picked my mate was talking about his lack of speed. For a loosie, he's slow - and that goes to a bunch of thigns including carrying. For a loose trio, Savea's got some wheels, but otherwise you're scratching around. It's unbalanced and kind of weird as a trio.
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@nzzp said in All Blacks 2024:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2024:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
Firstly, maybe he was slow because he had just made 3 tackles and the other player hadn't?
nah, he's just slow
It's not like he's playing on the wing bro.
Look, there's a lot to like with him, but he's very limited. And before he got picked my mate was talking about his lack of speed. For a loosie, he's slow - and that goes to a bunch of thigns including carrying. For a loose trio, Savea's got some wheels, but otherwise you're scratching around. It's unbalanced and kind of weird as a trio.
Agree totally on the trio and lack of balance.
SC and LJ look slow for loosies to me too - and I have heard EB's bronco times are very good for a forward. But all players are limited in some respect - even McCaw was not the best ball runner, didn't have the best hands, wasn't the greatest lineout target. I just find it weird that EB's effectiveness and now pace are gone on and on about when the alternative (and guy who was given the first chance) in SF just totally went missing.
Does anyone genuinely think that Finau (or Jacobson) replacing Blackadder is going to fix the ABs? -
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
@antipodean that looks more like the problem with using chatGPT to interpret stats to me.
I know what I'm seeing - and that's a guy with a big work-rate making a heap of tackles and carries. That's backed up by the stats.
What you are seeing is an alleged 'ineffective' which can't really be backed up with any data publicly available, and anecdote of certain game situations where he's looked slow which frankly is worthless.I get it, my (and others') observations are worthless. Yours are awesome.
Firstly, maybe he was slow because he had just made 3 tackles and the other player hadn't?
He hadn't.
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@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
@antipodean that looks more like the problem with using chatGPT to interpret stats to me.
I know what I'm seeing - and that's a guy with a big work-rate making a heap of tackles and carries. That's backed up by the stats.
What you are seeing is an alleged 'ineffective' which can't really be backed up with any data publicly available, and anecdote of certain game situations where he's looked slow which frankly is worthless.I get it, my (and others') observations are worthless. Yours are awesome.
Firstly, maybe he was slow because he had just made 3 tackles and the other player hadn't?
He hadn't.
Yeah, mine are just mine, and yours are just yours. You don't really need to be snarky about it.
The coaches do pick him of course - so that's at least a couple of (and others').Do you genuinely think that Finau (or Jacobson) replacing Blackadder is going to fix the ABs?
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@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
Do you genuinely think that Finau (or Jacobson) replacing Blackadder is going to fix the ABs?
I've previously explained my solution for the backrow and it's not confined to replacing Blackadder.
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I have a theory that Blackadder exhausts himself trying to be everywhere like McCaw was, and as a result is not effective when he does make a tackle or hit a ruck, as he's gassed. Also means when there's a breakout he can't keep up.
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If the selectors are in love with Blackadder, IMO they'd be better to put him at 7 and let him do his stuff there. We could then carry Ardie at 8 and look for more size and power at 6.
Personally, I think Blackadder < Papalii, and Lakai only looks a year away.
And looking towards 2027, EB will be 32 going on 33 and will likely have still only played another 20 odd more Super rugby games. I just don't quite see how his selection is really needed when we have older quality still available (they are still keeping Cane for this year), quality there in their prime (Papalii), and quality coming (Lakai).
So, in 2027, who will be our 6 and can we get 30-40 tests in them by then? Finau probably needs time - even our very best in Kaino took four years to nail down the jersey, and if they could make a decision about using Blackadder at 7. it would be one way of giving some tests to Finau to see if he can find his feet at this level.
Another player who may go well at the next level is Ah Kuoi - he certainly has the size but I wonder about his mindset. Then, there are others coming but none look ready.
My issue with the selections now is that they don't appear to be ideal for balance now and are clearly not building for the future. I don't get it at all.
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@gt12 said in All Blacks 2024:
If the selectors are in love with Blackadder, IMO they'd be better to put him at 7 and let him do his stuff there. We could then carry Ardie at 8 and look for more size and power at 6.
Personally, I think Blackadder < Papalii, and Lakai only looks a year away.
And looking towards 2027, EB will be 32 going on 33 and will likely have still only played another 20 odd more Super rugby games. I just don't quite see how his selection is really needed when we have older quality still available (they are still keeping Cane for this year), quality there in their prime (Papalii), and quality coming (Lakai).
So, in 2027, who will be our 6 and can we get 30-40 tests in them by then? Finau probably needs time - even our very best in Kaino took four years to nail down the jersey, and if they could make a decision about using Blackadder at 7. it would be one way of giving some tests to Finau to see if he can find his feet at this level.
Another player who may go well at the next level is Ah Kuoi - he certainly has the size but I wonder about his mindset. Then, there are others coming but none look ready.
My issue with the selections now is that they don't appear to be ideal for balance now and are clearly not building for the future. I don't get it at all.
Ah Kuoi is definitely more of a 6 for me, problem is, is that Finau is also there for the Chiefs.
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Yep, and at Super level, Finau is the better player. However, if Ah Kuoi got his chance and went well, Finau could easily be switched out.
Personally, I think Finau has the tools, but just needs time and coaching. I'm hoping that they are developing him for the future as a squaddie now... we'll find out I guess when we get our next squad.
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