All Blacks 2024
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@kpkanz said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@Yeahtheboys said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@kpkanz “razor wins each one of them” based on fucking what? He lost to Argentina at home?
Because I'm comparing the rugby we're playing under Razor to the rugby we played under Foster??
Which was the worst I have ever seen the All Blacks play in decades of watching?Our Argentina loss this year we were up 20-8 and threw the game away where we basically handed 2 free tries and collapsed. A game we blew.
Do you not remember the Argentina losses under Foster?
In those games we were genuinely dominated from minute 1 to minute 80. At NO point in those entire games did we look like winning.That has not happened once in Razors first year. All 3 losses we had a legitimate chance for victory, 2 of them where we had no right to lose from the position we were in.
So yes this is magnitudes better than Fosters first 2 years before Schmidt/Ryan joined.
Mate, what Foster did or didn't do 3 years ago has got bugger all to do with current AB problems.
We've gone from losing RWC 2023 to SA by one point with (14 men) to blowing a 27-14 lead at 68 minutes to lose 31-27 to SA. (And before you start throwing the "loss of experienced players" bullshit, both sides had 13 of their 23 at the RWC on that day)
How the fuck you regard that as progress or proof that we're playing better rugby overall under Robertson is beyond me.
Was 2020 too far back for you to remember?
Or 2021?Do you remember our first 2 years of Foster? Compared to Razors first year
Genuinely do people not watch the games?
From 2020-21 I distinctly remember us having no attacking shape whatsoever.
We would do one off runners from the halfback (2009 Bulls style), we wouldn't make meters, and then we'd box kick.
That's ALL we did for those 2 years until Schmidt joined and actually started introducing some shape to our attack.
Do people genuinely not remember how horrid this time was??
Even 2022-23 we still seemingly gave up on getting around the rush defense and instead committed to pick and go and one off runners smashing it up.
The antithesis of what our core skill-sets are and not leveraging what we have above all other countries.
We're only 3 months in with this new coaching setup and we have beaten and got around the rush defense more times in these 7 games than we managed the last 4 years.
Once we tidy up our phase play 5-10 metres out from the opposition try line and are more clinical in that area we're going to start putting up big scores against teams that have been troubling us this last decade.
The saying 'Cant see the Forest for the trees' comes to mind here with some of the criticism towards our performances thus far.
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@kpkanz the term "Helter Skelter" was used a lot on here to describe the pre-Schmidt Fozzie Blacks teams, or less flattering variations of that. And he had fewer excuses, considering it was a soft transition as he had been in the setup all along so knew the players well
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@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
@kpkanz bang on. It will take a while to bed in, but there is finally an effective attacking idea in place to combat the rush.
That's not to say Razor and his team haven't made some odd decisions. But I am in the give him time camp, for now
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I'm not sure I have quite the same recollection @kpkanz, still not flattering for Foster, but my memory is that we were far too keen to spin it wide early and we looked our best when we hit it up the guts and got opposition defense on the back foot first. I think a lack of effective ball runners is hurting Razor's squad right now, but that's his fault for picking a whole lot of players like himself (bar Sititi) instead of players that can get us go forward.
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@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2024:
I'm not sure I have quite the same recollection @kpkanz, still not flattering for Foster, but my memory is that we were far too keen to spin it wide early and we looked our best when we hit it up the guts and got opposition defense on the back foot first. I think a lack of effective ball runners is hurting Razor's squad right now, but that's his fault for picking a whole lot of players like himself (bar Sititi) instead of players that can get us go forward.
Points off for at least kicking the tires of Akira and Hoskins. If he's that good a coach he should have been able to get a tune out of them where others have failed (Vern Cotter excepted)
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024:
@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2024:
Losing to SA in SA by 4 and 6 points is hardly a disaster. and most people would have accepted that.
It may be a minority view, but I really don't find losing 31-27 when you were 27-14 up with 12 minutes to go in any way acceptable.
Oh I agree. In the context of the game, we lost it more than they and Andrew brace won it. I was going to say something along those lines but didn’t want to write too long a reply!
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2024:
I'm not sure I have quite the same recollection @kpkanz, still not flattering for Foster, but my memory is that we were far too keen to spin it wide early and we looked our best when we hit it up the guts and got opposition defense on the back foot first. I think a lack of effective ball runners is hurting Razor's squad right now, but that's his fault for picking a whole lot of players like himself (bar Sititi) instead of players that can get us go forward.
Points off for at least kicking the tires of Akira and Hoskins. If he's that good a coach he should have been able to get a tune out of them where others have failed (Vern Cotter excepted)
I agree, especially when his strengths are meant to be man mgmt and getting the best out of players
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Why have the ABs become more beatable over the years? The IP has been given away to rivals who now know how to prepare for them.
In recent times:
Exhibit A - Joe Schmidt with Ireland.
Exhibit B - Gatland with the Lions.
Exhibit C - Tony Brown with the Boks
Erasmus: Understanding the All Blacks’ Mindset is Key to Springboks' Recent Success
Springboks coach Rassie Erasmus believes his South African side better understands the All Blacks' mentality.
Professionalism has negated the strengths NZ once had. Players and coaches go to the highest bidder. The ABs need to develop a new culture, a new DNA that binds the players, coaches and fans together again. Tricky spot to be in. I feel revolution is in the air, because evolution is not working.
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VIDEO: Boks boss hails All Black 'inside man' for Freedom Cup triumph - new zealand
REACTION: Head coach Rassie Erasmus said former All Blacks flyhalf Tony Brown has been a vital component in the Springboks' back-to-back wins over the All Blacks.
Erasmus added Jerry Flannery and Tony Brown to his coaching team, which is slowly proving to be another masterstroke by the 2019 World Cup-winning coach.
Erasmus revealed that Brown contributed immensely to the success and he gave the Springboks a better understanding of New Zealand, on and off the field.
“Tony [Brown] gave us a perspective on the All Blacks, which told us a lot about the things we didn’t understand. It makes us play better,” said Erasmus.
“We always respected them, but now we have a better understanding of how they think, from the haka to their players and the make-up of their team and how they do things.
“It’s quite amazing what he told us.”
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@darylmitchell said in All Blacks 2024:
VIDEO: Boks boss hails All Black 'inside man' for Freedom Cup triumph - new zealand
REACTION: Head coach Rassie Erasmus said former All Blacks flyhalf Tony Brown has been a vital component in the Springboks' back-to-back wins over the All Blacks.
Erasmus added Jerry Flannery and Tony Brown to his coaching team, which is slowly proving to be another masterstroke by the 2019 World Cup-winning coach.
Erasmus revealed that Brown contributed immensely to the success and he gave the Springboks a better understanding of New Zealand, on and off the field.
“Tony [Brown] gave us a perspective on the All Blacks, which told us a lot about the things we didn’t understand. It makes us play better,” said Erasmus.
“We always respected them, but now we have a better understanding of how they think, from the haka to their players and the make-up of their team and how they do things.
“It’s quite amazing what he told us.”
He’s just rubbing it in now. Talking it up just to troll us
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@DaGrubster Or is he? Tony has gone native
The good news for NZ is that when Tony Brown comes off contract, he will have loads of stories to tell the NZRU about Bok rugby if they want to employ him.
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@stodders said in All Blacks 2024:
Why have the ABs become more beatable over the years? The IP has been given away to rivals who now know how to prepare for them.
In recent times:
Exhibit A - Joe Schmidt with Ireland.
Exhibit B - Gatland with the Lions.
Exhibit C - Tony Brown with the Boks
Erasmus: Understanding the All Blacks’ Mindset is Key to Springboks' Recent Success
Springboks coach Rassie Erasmus believes his South African side better understands the All Blacks' mentality.
Professionalism has negated the strengths NZ once had. Players and coaches go to the highest bidder. The ABs need to develop a new culture, a new DNA that binds the players, coaches and fans together again. Tricky spot to be in. I feel revolution is in the air, because evolution is not working.
That picture disgusts me.
They are cozying up and condescending in equal measure. It's all mind games. Like Kolisi saying he was "so proud of Ardie". It puts you on a pedestal above the person you're paying the compliment to.
I actually do like the Roy Keane style......he hates lads shaking hands in the tunnel before games and swapping shirts on the pitch after a bad loss etc. Youre supposed to be going into battle.
In the first test in Ellis park Rieko got bundled into touch unceremoniously by De Allende.
Rieko was flat on his back and stuck his hand up for De Allende to pick him up.
De Allende just left him there and strode off with flared nostrils and chest puffed out.We are carrying on like we are the little brother in the fight.
Sure grab a beer with your opposite number in the sheds, but this Kolisi shite of the arm round the shoulder of Sititi giving it the old "well done young man you played well, keep the head down and work hard and youll go places". its a load of nonsense. You should be trying to break his ribs every time he gets the ball.
They are killing us with kindness while the knife is in the back. You wouldnt see them pulling stunts like that with Brad Thorn or Jerome Kaino.
Its mans work out there and we need to step up.
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Bro, that sort of thing has been happening forever. Probably not with Brad Thorn I guess as he was a highly experienced professional when he came into the ABs, so he's hardly going to get a 'well done young man'.
I don't understand why you think that a compliment from an aging opposition star after playing him for the first time would stop Wallace from wanting to fuck him up next game. If he thinks like you it would certainly add motivation in that direction, and if he takes it as a genuine compliment and it gives him added confidence at test level that's good too. Kolisi is a veteran RWC winning captain and Sititi is in his first run-on start - the pedestal is there whether you like it or not, it's not created by him saying 'well done mate' - and all ambitious young men forever want to knock people off their pedestal.The likes of de Groot, Taylor, Aumua, Samisoni, Cane aren't really back-down guys if you ask me. Clearly you lose a bit of hard man mana when you lose Retallick and Whitelock, that's to be expected. I'm all for more mongrel, but I reckon it's lack of composure that's killing us, not that.
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@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
Bro, that sort of thing has been happening forever. Probably not with Brad Thorn I guess as he was a highly experienced professional when he came into the ABs, so he's hardly going to get a 'well done young man'.
I don't understand why you think that a compliment from an aging opposition star after playing him for the first time would stop Wallace from wanting to fuck him up next game. If he thinks like you it would certainly add motivation in that direction, and if he takes it as a genuine compliment and it gives him added confidence at test level that's good too. Kolisi is a veteran RWC winning captain and Sititi is in his first run-on start - the pedestal is there whether you like it or not, it's not created by him saying 'well done mate' - and all ambitious young men forever want to knock people off their pedestal.The likes of de Groot, Taylor, Aumua, Samisoni, Cane aren't really back-down guys if you ask me. Clearly you lose a bit of hard man mana when you lose Retallick and Whitelock, that's to be expected. I'm all for more mongrel, but I reckon it's lack of composure that's killing us, not that.
Sentiments echoed by Hall and Parsons on Aotearoa rugby pod last night. They suggested that mongrel and anger in isolation weren't helpful and could lead to indiscipline and poor execution. I don't think it was mongrel that let us down. It's poor decision making and execution at the wrong times
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@Jet said in All Blacks 2024:
@stodders said in All Blacks 2024:
Why have the ABs become more beatable over the years? The IP has been given away to rivals who now know how to prepare for them.
In recent times:
Exhibit A - Joe Schmidt with Ireland.
Exhibit B - Gatland with the Lions.
Exhibit C - Tony Brown with the Boks
Erasmus: Understanding the All Blacks’ Mindset is Key to Springboks' Recent Success
Springboks coach Rassie Erasmus believes his South African side better understands the All Blacks' mentality.
Professionalism has negated the strengths NZ once had. Players and coaches go to the highest bidder. The ABs need to develop a new culture, a new DNA that binds the players, coaches and fans together again. Tricky spot to be in. I feel revolution is in the air, because evolution is not working.
That picture disgusts me.
They are cozying up and condescending in equal measure. It's all mind games. Like Kolisi saying he was "so proud of Ardie". It puts you on a pedestal above the person you're paying the compliment to.
I actually do like the Roy Keane style......he hates lads shaking hands in the tunnel before games and swapping shirts on the pitch after a bad loss etc. Youre supposed to be going into battle.
In the first test in Ellis park Rieko got bundled into touch unceremoniously by De Allende.
Rieko was flat on his back and stuck his hand up for De Allende to pick him up.
De Allende just left him there and strode off with flared nostrils and chest puffed out.We are carrying on like we are the little brother in the fight.
Sure grab a beer with your opposite number in the sheds, but this Kolisi shite of the arm round the shoulder of Sititi giving it the old "well done young man you played well, keep the head down and work hard and youll go places". its a load of nonsense. You should be trying to break his ribs every time he gets the ball.
They are killing us with kindness while the knife is in the back. You wouldnt see them pulling stunts like that with Brad Thorn or Jerome Kaino.
Its mans work out there and we need to step up.
Worth remembering that Ioane has acted like a bit of a tool on the field at times, that might be part of the reason
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Personally, I wouldn't necessarily expect a player to be helped up by the opposition. Never done in basketball for example. Congratulating each other on a good game once it's all done is an unrelated issue and speaks more to a general respect between the two teams.
I remember back in the Chieka Wallaby days (I think it was him??), he tried to instill a hatred of the ABs. It rarely worked
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@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks 2024:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
Oh, get a grip. So Sotutu is now the finest player not to get selected and everyone else is a journeyman. I find it funny how by attacking another player from a rival team who doesn't even get selected as a No.8 is the main focus of the argument. Just so friggen stupid.
you are talking about EB?
Where would you rank him on his 2024 season against the other 6s and 7s?One of the most effective loose forwards in the comp in a dysfunctional team when playing. Hence pretty much every pundit outside this echo chamber putting his name in the mix.
Being made of glass and a lack of a body of work is a reasonable argument though...LOL, I call BS on this statement.
One of the busiest, sure, but effective, NFW!
He's there because he's the coaches pet and son of a mate and because the fan boys fawn over the few minutes he plays each season.
Should never have walked into the squad let alone starting given how few minutes he's played and how actually ineffective he is when he plays. Busy doesn't mean efffective.
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@RoninWC said in All Blacks 2024:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks 2024:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
Oh, get a grip. So Sotutu is now the finest player not to get selected and everyone else is a journeyman. I find it funny how by attacking another player from a rival team who doesn't even get selected as a No.8 is the main focus of the argument. Just so friggen stupid.
you are talking about EB?
Where would you rank him on his 2024 season against the other 6s and 7s?One of the most effective loose forwards in the comp in a dysfunctional team when playing. Hence pretty much every pundit outside this echo chamber putting his name in the mix.
Being made of glass and a lack of a body of work is a reasonable argument though...LOL, I call BS on this statement.
One of the busiest, sure, but effective, NFW!
He's there because he's the coaches pet and son of a mate and because the fan boys fawn over the few minutes he plays each season.
Should never have walked into the squad let alone starting given how few minutes he's played and how actually ineffective he is when he plays. Busy doesn't mean efffective.
And just because some of us say Sotutu deserves a chance, that's all that means. He earned a chance, that is all. Funny how the EB fanbois immediately conclude that we are saying he is the second coming. Razor ignored players who did well in winning teams and picked his guys despite their SR form and it hasn't worked out. And now he's taking some heat
