All Blacks 2024
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@RoninWC said in All Blacks 2024:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks 2024:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
Oh, get a grip. So Sotutu is now the finest player not to get selected and everyone else is a journeyman. I find it funny how by attacking another player from a rival team who doesn't even get selected as a No.8 is the main focus of the argument. Just so friggen stupid.
you are talking about EB?
Where would you rank him on his 2024 season against the other 6s and 7s?One of the most effective loose forwards in the comp in a dysfunctional team when playing. Hence pretty much every pundit outside this echo chamber putting his name in the mix.
Being made of glass and a lack of a body of work is a reasonable argument though...LOL, I call BS on this statement.
One of the busiest, sure, but effective, NFW!
He's there because he's the coaches pet and son of a mate and because the fan boys fawn over the few minutes he plays each season.
Should never have walked into the squad let alone starting given how few minutes he's played and how actually ineffective he is when he plays. Busy doesn't mean efffective.
God you're repetitive and full of shit. He didn't walk into the starting side. The starting loosies against England were DP, AS, SF. EB and LJ had their first starts vs Fiji. EB performed, SF had not, and of the options available he earned the starting spot.
I wouldn't have picked him initially due to a lack of playing time, but he has performed well and justified his selection. Stats back that up.
To say he's been selected because he's the son of a mate paints you as quite the fluffybunny. -
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
@RoninWC said in All Blacks 2024:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks 2024:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
Oh, get a grip. So Sotutu is now the finest player not to get selected and everyone else is a journeyman. I find it funny how by attacking another player from a rival team who doesn't even get selected as a No.8 is the main focus of the argument. Just so friggen stupid.
you are talking about EB?
Where would you rank him on his 2024 season against the other 6s and 7s?One of the most effective loose forwards in the comp in a dysfunctional team when playing. Hence pretty much every pundit outside this echo chamber putting his name in the mix.
Being made of glass and a lack of a body of work is a reasonable argument though...LOL, I call BS on this statement.
One of the busiest, sure, but effective, NFW!
He's there because he's the coaches pet and son of a mate and because the fan boys fawn over the few minutes he plays each season.
Should never have walked into the squad let alone starting given how few minutes he's played and how actually ineffective he is when he plays. Busy doesn't mean efffective.
And just because some of us say Sotutu deserves a chance, that's all that means. He earned a chance, that is all. Funny how the EB fanbois immediately conclude that we are saying he is the second coming. Razor ignored players who did well in winning teams and picked his guys despite their SR form and it hasn't worked out. And now he's taking some heat
I would have picked Hoskins, but I don't expect him to come in and be the finished article on day 1.
Who exactly are "Razor's guys" who haven't performed? Finau, Savea, TJP, Jordie, Rieko, Telea...? -
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
@RoninWC said in All Blacks 2024:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks 2024:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks 2024 - selection:
Oh, get a grip. So Sotutu is now the finest player not to get selected and everyone else is a journeyman. I find it funny how by attacking another player from a rival team who doesn't even get selected as a No.8 is the main focus of the argument. Just so friggen stupid.
you are talking about EB?
Where would you rank him on his 2024 season against the other 6s and 7s?One of the most effective loose forwards in the comp in a dysfunctional team when playing. Hence pretty much every pundit outside this echo chamber putting his name in the mix.
Being made of glass and a lack of a body of work is a reasonable argument though...LOL, I call BS on this statement.
One of the busiest, sure, but effective, NFW!
He's there because he's the coaches pet and son of a mate and because the fan boys fawn over the few minutes he plays each season.
Should never have walked into the squad let alone starting given how few minutes he's played and how actually ineffective he is when he plays. Busy doesn't mean efffective.
And just because some of us say Sotutu deserves a chance, that's all that means. He earned a chance, that is all. Funny how the EB fanbois immediately conclude that we are saying he is the second coming. Razor ignored players who did well in winning teams and picked his guys despite their SR form and it hasn't worked out. And now he's taking some heat
I would have picked Hoskins, but I don't expect him to come in and be the finished article on day 1.
Who exactly are "Razor's guys" who haven't performed? Finau, Savea, TJP, Jordie, Rieko, Telea...?I was mainly focussing on EB, as a response to earlier (not yours) posts. He's getting an easier road, some are not getting a crack. Normal in any team though I guess
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
I just want the best for the All Blacks. And that means leaving no stone unturned. Picking form guys in SR to see what the coaches can do with them would seem logical
Me too and I'm all for that, and have said numerous times that I would not have picked EB initially. I've changed my mind, because he has performed - the evidence is there that I was wrong and he was a good selection.
I remain confused as to why we need all three of Cane, Dalton and Jacobson, and I don't know why we needed to pick Sititi this early.
I just don't get why people are so hung up on EB still when what I'm seeing is a heap of others playing worse than him. -
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
I just want the best for the All Blacks. And that means leaving no stone unturned. Picking form guys in SR to see what the coaches can do with them would seem logical
Me too and I'm all for that, and have said numerous times that I would not have picked EB initially. I've changed my mind, because he has performed - the evidence is there that I was wrong and he was a good selection.
I remain confused as to why we need all three of Cane, Dalton and Jacobson, and I don't know why we needed to pick Sititi this early.
I just don't get why people are so hung up on EB still when what I'm seeing is a heap of others playing worse than him.That's fair. In the back 3 we will need a workhorse, and when Cane goes someone will have to do the grunt work. Maybe it will be Ethan. But we don't need two of them, as playing the more dynamic Sititi showed
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More update on Roigard, he looks raring to go after some impressive work in the gym.
'He’s squatting around 170 kilograms in the weight room and he ran a four minute, 29 Bronco'.
Cam Roigard’s outrageously impressive Bronco time during injury rehab
Cam Roigard appears to be nearing a return from injury, with former All Black Israel Dagg revealing an outrageously impressive fitness update.
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@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
People complain about Finau not doing enough but he is better at the breakdown than Sititi. He reliably secures the ball.
I don't blame Sititi at all. He's being played out of position because they won't drop an out of form Savea. And the selector(s) binned Akira, dumped Finau without gradually introducing him to Test level footy, tried the perennially broken Blackadder and then said "here's your big chance mate, a position you didn't play in Super Rugby..."
Papali'i just gets to more breakdowns than Cane. He gets to breakdowns that Cane doesn't have the pace to get too. Razor desires a 15 man game with more width and Cane is not the guy for that game. The AB's and Cane improved under Foster when Schmidt took over because they started playing a narrower game plan that suits Cane's lack of mobility.
I'm not convinced that Cane is appreciably slower than Papali'i. He gets into the wide channels pretty damn well based on the last two outings. He's practically light speed compared to the glacial Blackadder.
You can play either of them but that's not where the issue lies.
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@darylmitchell said in All Blacks 2024:
“It’s quite amazing what he told us.”
I sense a fair bit of trolling there. Brown's knowledge of the All Blacks would be fairly limited.
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@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
I'm not convinced that Cane is appreciably slower than Papali'i. He gets into the wide channels pretty damn well based on the last two outings. He's practically light speed compared to the glacial Blackadder.
You can play either of them but that's not where the issue lies.
Right, so now EB is not only ineffective but he doesn't actually get anywhere.
Despite all the stats showing him making a shitload of tackles and carries - stats which are, y'know, kinda hard to rack up without being where the ball is.
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@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
I'm not convinced that Cane is appreciably slower than Papali'i. He gets into the wide channels pretty damn well based on the last two outings. He's practically light speed compared to the glacial Blackadder.
You can play either of them but that's not where the issue lies.
Right, so now EB is not only ineffective but he doesn't actually get anywhere.
Despite all the stats showing him making a shitload of tackles and carries - stats which are, y'know, kinda hard to rack up without being where the ball is.
You’re missing the key word which is “effective”
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@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2024:
More update on Roigard, he looks raring to go after some impressive work in the gym.
'He’s squatting around 170 kilograms in the weight room and he ran a four minute, 29 Bronco'.
Cam Roigard’s outrageously impressive Bronco time during injury rehab
Cam Roigard appears to be nearing a return from injury, with former All Black Israel Dagg revealing an outrageously impressive fitness update.
I didn’t even need to read the username to know who shared this
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@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
I'm not convinced that Cane is appreciably slower than Papali'i. He gets into the wide channels pretty damn well based on the last two outings. He's practically light speed compared to the glacial Blackadder.
You can play either of them but that's not where the issue lies.
Right, so now EB is not only ineffective but he doesn't actually get anywhere.
Despite all the stats showing him making a shitload of tackles and carries - stats which are, y'know, kinda hard to rack up without being where the ball is.
Did you watch him ponderously cover and get burned? Or where a front rower left him behind chasing a kick in support? He's fucking slow. Like gumboots in mud slow.
His lack of pace is indefensible.
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@kpkanz said in All Blacks 2024:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@kpkanz said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@Yeahtheboys said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@kpkanz “razor wins each one of them” based on fucking what? He lost to Argentina at home?
Because I'm comparing the rugby we're playing under Razor to the rugby we played under Foster??
Which was the worst I have ever seen the All Blacks play in decades of watching?Our Argentina loss this year we were up 20-8 and threw the game away where we basically handed 2 free tries and collapsed. A game we blew.
Do you not remember the Argentina losses under Foster?
In those games we were genuinely dominated from minute 1 to minute 80. At NO point in those entire games did we look like winning.That has not happened once in Razors first year. All 3 losses we had a legitimate chance for victory, 2 of them where we had no right to lose from the position we were in.
So yes this is magnitudes better than Fosters first 2 years before Schmidt/Ryan joined.
Mate, what Foster did or didn't do 3 years ago has got bugger all to do with current AB problems.
We've gone from losing RWC 2023 to SA by one point with (14 men) to blowing a 27-14 lead at 68 minutes to lose 31-27 to SA. (And before you start throwing the "loss of experienced players" bullshit, both sides had 13 of their 23 at the RWC on that day)
How the fuck you regard that as progress or proof that we're playing better rugby overall under Robertson is beyond me.
Was 2020 too far back for you to remember?
Or 2021?Do you remember our first 2 years of Foster? Compared to Razors first year
Genuinely do people not watch the games?
From 2020-21 I distinctly remember us having no attacking shape whatsoever.
We would do one off runners from the halfback (2009 Bulls style), we wouldn't make meters, and then we'd box kick.
That's ALL we did for those 2 years until Schmidt joined and actually started introducing some shape to our attack.
Do people genuinely not remember how horrid this time was??
Even 2022-23 we still seemingly gave up on getting around the rush defense and instead committed to pick and go and one off runners smashing it up.
The antithesis of what our core skill-sets are and not leveraging what we have above all other countries.
We're only 3 months in with this new coaching setup and we have beaten and got around the rush defense more times in these 7 games than we managed the last 4 years.
Once we tidy up our phase play 5-10 metres out from the opposition try line and are more clinical in that area we're going to start putting up big scores against teams that have been troubling us this last decade.
The saying 'Cant see the Forest for the trees' comes to mind here with some of the criticism towards our performances thus far.
LOL we don’t have anything over all other countries, man.
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@junior said in All Blacks 2024:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks 2024:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@kpkanz said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@Yeahtheboys said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@kpkanz “razor wins each one of them” based on fucking what? He lost to Argentina at home?
Because I'm comparing the rugby we're playing under Razor to the rugby we played under Foster??
Which was the worst I have ever seen the All Blacks play in decades of watching?Our Argentina loss this year we were up 20-8 and threw the game away where we basically handed 2 free tries and collapsed. A game we blew.
Do you not remember the Argentina losses under Foster?
In those games we were genuinely dominated from minute 1 to minute 80. At NO point in those entire games did we look like winning.That has not happened once in Razors first year. All 3 losses we had a legitimate chance for victory, 2 of them where we had no right to lose from the position we were in.
So yes this is magnitudes better than Fosters first 2 years before Schmidt/Ryan joined.
Mate, what Foster did or didn't do 3 years ago has got bugger all to do with current AB problems.
We've gone from losing RWC 2023 to SA by one point with (14 men) to blowing a 27-14 lead at 68 minutes to lose 31-27 to SA. (And before you start throwing the "loss of experienced players" bullshit, both sides had 13 of their 23 at the RWC on that day)
How the fuck you regard that as progress or proof that we're playing better rugby overall under Robertson is beyond me.
Was 2020 too far back for you to remember?
Or 2021?Do you remember our first 2 years of Foster? Compared to Razors first year
Genuinely do people not watch the games?
From 2020-21 I distinctly remember us having no attacking shape whatsoever.
We would do one off runners from the halfback (2009 Bulls style), we wouldn't make meters, and then we'd box kick.
That's ALL we did for those 2 years until Schmidt joined and actually started introducing some shape to our attack.
Do people genuinely not remember how horrid this time was??
Even 2022-23 we still seemingly gave up on getting around the rush defense and instead committed to pick and go and one off runners smashing it up.
The antithesis of what our core skill-sets are and not leveraging what we have above all other countries.
We're only 3 months in with this new coaching setup and we have beaten and got around the rush defense more times in these 7 games than we managed the last 4 years.
Once we tidy up our phase play 5-10 metres out from the opposition try line and are more clinical in that area we're going to start putting up big scores against teams that have been troubling us this last decade.
The saying 'Cant see the Forest for the trees' comes to mind here with some of the criticism towards our performances thus far.
LOL we don’t have anything over all other countries, man.
not any more with the way Tests play out.
Going back in time, it was the ball playing of our tight forwards that was the difference. Other sides have caught up there though, and we cant open the game up in the last 20 with superior fitness and skills any more.
So yeah.
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@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2024:
@darylmitchell said in All Blacks 2024:
VIDEO: Boks boss hails All Black 'inside man' for Freedom Cup triumph - new zealand
REACTION: Head coach Rassie Erasmus said former All Blacks flyhalf Tony Brown has been a vital component in the Springboks' back-to-back wins over the All Blacks.
Erasmus added Jerry Flannery and Tony Brown to his coaching team, which is slowly proving to be another masterstroke by the 2019 World Cup-winning coach.
Erasmus revealed that Brown contributed immensely to the success and he gave the Springboks a better understanding of New Zealand, on and off the field.
“Tony [Brown] gave us a perspective on the All Blacks, which told us a lot about the things we didn’t understand. It makes us play better,” said Erasmus.
“We always respected them, but now we have a better understanding of how they think, from the haka to their players and the make-up of their team and how they do things.
“It’s quite amazing what he told us.”
He’s just rubbing it in now. Talking it up just to troll us
Total gaslighting attempt to get us fundamentally to change our whole ethos because “he’s figured us out”. -
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
I'm not convinced that Cane is appreciably slower than Papali'i. He gets into the wide channels pretty damn well based on the last two outings. He's practically light speed compared to the glacial Blackadder.
You can play either of them but that's not where the issue lies.
Right, so now EB is not only ineffective but he doesn't actually get anywhere.
Despite all the stats showing him making a shitload of tackles and carries - stats which are, y'know, kinda hard to rack up without being where the ball is.
Did you watch him ponderously cover and get burned? Or where a front rower left him behind chasing a kick in support? He's fucking slow. Like gumboots in mud slow.
His lack of pace is indefensible.
Well fuck me, that reflects pretty badly on all these players who are faster than him. I guess they must be using their extra pace to get out of the way so they don't have to make tackles or carries.
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"Hopefully enough people to tip it over into the harbour if we lose this one" 🤣🤣🤣
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@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
I'm not convinced that Cane is appreciably slower than Papali'i. He gets into the wide channels pretty damn well based on the last two outings. He's practically light speed compared to the glacial Blackadder.
You can play either of them but that's not where the issue lies.
Right, so now EB is not only ineffective but he doesn't actually get anywhere.
Despite all the stats showing him making a shitload of tackles and carries - stats which are, y'know, kinda hard to rack up without being where the ball is.
Did you watch him ponderously cover and get burned? Or where a front rower left him behind chasing a kick in support? He's fucking slow. Like gumboots in mud slow.
His lack of pace is indefensible.
Well fuck me, that reflects pretty badly on all these players who are faster than him. I guess they must be using their extra pace to get out of the way so they don't have to make tackles or carries.
Probably busy using their speed to get onside after he makes his passive tackles...
The problem with using statistics without qualifiers is neatly summed up by asking chatgpt to rank players based on the stats available at https://super.rugby/therugbychampionship/fixtures/
Here’s a ranking of New Zealand players based on both attack and defense statistics, combining key attack metrics (meters gained, carries) and defense metrics (tackles made, tackle completion):
Combined Ranking (Attack and Defense):
Savea- Attack: 44 meters, 18 carries, 5 defenders beaten, 2 clean breaks, 5 points
- Defense: 12 tackles, 100% tackle completion
Jordan
- Attack: 84 meters, 9 carries, 3 defenders beaten, 2 clean breaks, 10 points
- Defense: 4 tackles, 66.67% tackle completion
Blackadder
- Attack: 14 meters, 7 carries, 7 passes, 1 offload
- Defense: 20 tackles, 86.96% tackle completion, 2 turnovers won
Barrett (Beauden)
- Attack: 36 meters, 7 carries, 4 defenders beaten, 1 clean break, 2 try assists
- Defense: 8 tackles, 80% tackle completion
Now does that correlate with what people recall from the first game against South Africa..?
