All Blacks 2024
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@MN5 said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@LatsToTheMax said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@canefan said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@MiketheSnow said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@kidcalder said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@LatsToTheMax
I have often thought Clarke could go well in midfield - size and good feet.
Maybe worth an experiment in super rugby to see what hands and vision are likeClarke is not the droid you’re looking for
He's only just starting to play rest rugby well at wing! You could see Nonu had something early on, I don't see that with Clarke. If he can be a very good winger I'll be satisfied
No one thought Nonu would be world class at 12.
I did
I first saw him play when he was 7 years old. I knew it then
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@Boston-Boy said in All Blacks 2024:
Also now thinking Ardie to 7, which opens us up to Sititi or a real 8 and Blackadder or an abrasive big 6. A much better balance. Sititi can handle both the abrasive stuff and the speed around the park enabling the ABs to play both ways.
Exactly what I was thinking. Blackadder and Sititi good work rates and lineouts. Sititi got some good lineout takes last weekend. Savea would enjoy 7 I think.
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Overall It's not the loses, it's the nature of the losses. I was expecting a fresher approach and a bit more inventiveness.
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Expected a bit more change (apart from the first 2-3 Tests) but most of the ones we've seen were mainly forced by injury. Take some chances - he's got the time. Build depth.
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Evidence of better, leadership, mental attitude and focus, discipline at key moments. That's got worse IMO.
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A more dynamic, varied attack. The chip kicks have gone but so has the backline penetration.
I'm not saying sack him but really think NZR need a review after the RC to see where things are going and what needs to be done.
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@kidcalder said in All Blacks 2024:
@canefan You spotted Nonu as a 12 early on.... good on you - I remember most of the country reckoned he was mud and a poor mans Tana.
Not sure how accurate that is. I remember people saying he has the raw potential he just needs to work on his work ons…..
….and he worked on those work ons like an absolute mother fucker and became THE best 12 I’ve ever seen.
A complete player by the end of his career and STILL playing at 42. That is awesome.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
Overall It's not the loses, it's the nature of the losses. I was expecting a fresher approach and a bit more inventiveness.
- Expected a bit more change (apart from the first 2-3 Tests) but most of the ones we've seen were mainly forced by injury. Take some chances - he's got the time. Build depth.
But were you not saying before the international season that Robertson should pick conservatively? Or have I got you mixed up with someone else?
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@kidcalder said in All Blacks 2024:
I remember most of the country reckoned he was mud and a poor mans Tana.
Nonu made a name for himself when he absolutely teared Umaga apart playing for Ories against Petone as a young buck. Everyone always new about his potential but not many would have predicted he would become arguably the greatest 12 to play the game. Awesome career and like @MN5 has said, he's still bloody going.
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@MN5 Yes no one disputes what he became- over time and with maturity and as mentioned earlier with a steady influence from Conrad.
But when he was first tried he struggled and public opinion of him was not high at all.
He was dropped for the WC and contemplated league. Thankfully he worked on his work ons.... -
@kidcalder said in All Blacks 2024:
But when he was first tried he struggled and public opinion of him was not high at all.
He was dropped for the WC and contemplated league. Thankfully he worked on his work ons....His defensive read against BOD in Hamilton was so bad people called for him not to play for the ABs ever again. He got dropped, and rightly so. But came back strong ... kinda like Kaino right?
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@kidcalder said in All Blacks 2024:
@MN5 Yes no one disputes what he became- over time and with maturity and as mentioned earlier with a steady influence from Conrad.
But when he was first tried he struggled and public opinion of him was not high at all.
He was dropped for the WC and contemplated league. Thankfully he worked on his work ons....Yeah my rose tinted view possibly isn’t completely accurate, I forget he got dropped for awhile and completely missed the 2007 WC.
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@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
Overall It's not the loses, it's the nature of the losses. I was expecting a fresher approach and a bit more inventiveness.
- Expected a bit more change (apart from the first 2-3 Tests) but most of the ones we've seen were mainly forced by injury. Take some chances - he's got the time. Build depth.
But were you not saying before the international season that Robertson should pick conservatively? Or have I got you mixed up with someone else?
I said I expected him to pick conservatively for the first few games. But also that I hoped he'd try different things, we should expect a few losses as that happened and that was OK as we needed to look at the bigger, longer picture.
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@kidcalder said in All Blacks 2024:
@canefan You spotted Nonu as a 12 early on.... good on you - I remember most of the country reckoned he was mud and a poor mans Tana.
There was a group on here that were fans much earlier than the rest. There were lots of other posters who didn't think he was going to make it. I remember bumping into Nonu on Courtney Place after seeing him turn out for the Canes in his rookie season. He was tearing it up on the wing at that stage. I shook his hand and told him he would be an AB. Then I noticed the little guy with him, it was Chris Masoe!
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There are some real drama queens on this thread. We weren’t that far off winning the 2 tests in SA. Against a settled SA side and coaching setup. It’s not a compete capitulation like if we were to get our asses handed to us by Australia in consecutive tests. From where we came from under foster to expect to go rapidly from strength to strength is totally unrealistic.
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@Billy-Tell said in All Blacks 2024:
There are some real drama queens on this thread. We weren’t that far off winning the 2 tests in SA. Against a settled SA side and coaching setup. It’s not a compete capitulation like if we were to get our asses handed to us by Australia in consecutive tests. From where we came from under foster to expect to go rapidly from strength to strength is totally unrealistic.
Not wanting to sound like an apologist, but the loss of experience hasn't helped us either
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Yeah I would be drama queening if we were physically dominated up front at the breakdown and scrum but we weren't infact we were more than competitive.
Our front row is impressive and EDG wasn't available and maybe more importantly Samosoni who would have been great off the bench.
Va'ai is developing
It will take time this time next year some of this squad will be gone and hopefully questions answered -
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
Overall It's not the loses, it's the nature of the losses. I was expecting a fresher approach and a bit more inventiveness.
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Expected a bit more change (apart from the first 2-3 Tests) but most of the ones we've seen were mainly forced by injury. Take some chances - he's got the time. Build depth.
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Evidence of better, leadership, mental attitude and focus, discipline at key moments. That's got worse IMO.
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A more dynamic, varied attack. The chip kicks have gone but so has the backline penetration.
Agree with the first, could have used the clean slate more.
Disagree with the second - you don't lose guys like Whitelock, Retallick, Smith and expect that from day 1.
Disagree that the backline penetration has gone, mostly because we had absolutely fuck all of that under Foster so there really wasn't any to lose - but I do also see some positive signs - albeit neutered by TJP a bit. -
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It was good to see the ABs having a real go at winning turnovers at the rucks, and getting a few too. We haven't done that enough the last few years.
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@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2024:
It was good to see the ABs having a real go at winning turnovers at the rucks, and getting a few too. We haven't done that enough the last few years.
Liked the tactic of going low into the tackle to chop the Boks down, and following in for turnovers, instead of a more upright or grappling style tackle
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Also for the most part our maul defence was very good. I have noticed we are not using it much in attack ourselves. I wonder if the one stoppage rule is playing a part?
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@Billy-Tell said in All Blacks 2024:
There are some real drama queens on this thread. We weren’t that far off winning the 2 tests in SA. Against a settled SA side and coaching setup. It’s not a compete capitulation like if we were to get our asses handed to us by Australia in consecutive tests. From where we came from under foster to expect to go rapidly from strength to strength is totally unrealistic.
SA were experimenting in both matches fielding very different combinations, starters and finishers
