All Blacks 2024
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@kidcalder said in All Blacks 2024:
@MN5 Yes no one disputes what he became- over time and with maturity and as mentioned earlier with a steady influence from Conrad.
But when he was first tried he struggled and public opinion of him was not high at all.
He was dropped for the WC and contemplated league. Thankfully he worked on his work ons....Yeah my rose tinted view possibly isn’t completely accurate, I forget he got dropped for awhile and completely missed the 2007 WC.
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@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
Overall It's not the loses, it's the nature of the losses. I was expecting a fresher approach and a bit more inventiveness.
- Expected a bit more change (apart from the first 2-3 Tests) but most of the ones we've seen were mainly forced by injury. Take some chances - he's got the time. Build depth.
But were you not saying before the international season that Robertson should pick conservatively? Or have I got you mixed up with someone else?
I said I expected him to pick conservatively for the first few games. But also that I hoped he'd try different things, we should expect a few losses as that happened and that was OK as we needed to look at the bigger, longer picture.
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@kidcalder said in All Blacks 2024:
@canefan You spotted Nonu as a 12 early on.... good on you - I remember most of the country reckoned he was mud and a poor mans Tana.
There was a group on here that were fans much earlier than the rest. There were lots of other posters who didn't think he was going to make it. I remember bumping into Nonu on Courtney Place after seeing him turn out for the Canes in his rookie season. He was tearing it up on the wing at that stage. I shook his hand and told him he would be an AB. Then I noticed the little guy with him, it was Chris Masoe!
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There are some real drama queens on this thread. We weren’t that far off winning the 2 tests in SA. Against a settled SA side and coaching setup. It’s not a compete capitulation like if we were to get our asses handed to us by Australia in consecutive tests. From where we came from under foster to expect to go rapidly from strength to strength is totally unrealistic.
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@Billy-Tell said in All Blacks 2024:
There are some real drama queens on this thread. We weren’t that far off winning the 2 tests in SA. Against a settled SA side and coaching setup. It’s not a compete capitulation like if we were to get our asses handed to us by Australia in consecutive tests. From where we came from under foster to expect to go rapidly from strength to strength is totally unrealistic.
Not wanting to sound like an apologist, but the loss of experience hasn't helped us either
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Yeah I would be drama queening if we were physically dominated up front at the breakdown and scrum but we weren't infact we were more than competitive.
Our front row is impressive and EDG wasn't available and maybe more importantly Samosoni who would have been great off the bench.
Va'ai is developing
It will take time this time next year some of this squad will be gone and hopefully questions answered -
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
Overall It's not the loses, it's the nature of the losses. I was expecting a fresher approach and a bit more inventiveness.
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Expected a bit more change (apart from the first 2-3 Tests) but most of the ones we've seen were mainly forced by injury. Take some chances - he's got the time. Build depth.
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Evidence of better, leadership, mental attitude and focus, discipline at key moments. That's got worse IMO.
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A more dynamic, varied attack. The chip kicks have gone but so has the backline penetration.
Agree with the first, could have used the clean slate more.
Disagree with the second - you don't lose guys like Whitelock, Retallick, Smith and expect that from day 1.
Disagree that the backline penetration has gone, mostly because we had absolutely fuck all of that under Foster so there really wasn't any to lose - but I do also see some positive signs - albeit neutered by TJP a bit. -
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It was good to see the ABs having a real go at winning turnovers at the rucks, and getting a few too. We haven't done that enough the last few years.
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@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2024:
It was good to see the ABs having a real go at winning turnovers at the rucks, and getting a few too. We haven't done that enough the last few years.
Liked the tactic of going low into the tackle to chop the Boks down, and following in for turnovers, instead of a more upright or grappling style tackle
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Also for the most part our maul defence was very good. I have noticed we are not using it much in attack ourselves. I wonder if the one stoppage rule is playing a part?
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@Billy-Tell said in All Blacks 2024:
There are some real drama queens on this thread. We weren’t that far off winning the 2 tests in SA. Against a settled SA side and coaching setup. It’s not a compete capitulation like if we were to get our asses handed to us by Australia in consecutive tests. From where we came from under foster to expect to go rapidly from strength to strength is totally unrealistic.
SA were experimenting in both matches fielding very different combinations, starters and finishers
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@kidcalder said in All Blacks 2024:
Yeah I would be drama queening if we were physically dominated up front at the breakdown and scrum but we weren't infact we were more than competitive.
Our front row is impressive and EDG wasn't available and maybe more importantly Samosoni who would have been great off the bench.
Va'ai is developing
It will take time this time next year some of this squad will be gone and hopefully questions answeredThe forwards are tracking better than the backs right now. And the bench simply isn't working
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@Billy-Tell said in All Blacks 2024:
There are some real drama queens on this thread. We weren’t that far off winning the 2 tests in SA. Against a settled SA side and coaching setup. It’s not a compete capitulation like if we were to get our asses handed to us by Australia in consecutive tests. From where we came from under foster to expect to go rapidly from strength to strength is totally unrealistic.
For me the frustration is because we're in the position to win both tests and spectacularly blew it because of poor bench management/selections/timing, it was very much in our hands which makes it all the more frustrating.
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@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2024:
@george33 said in All Blacks 2024:
Cameron Roigard back for round 9 NPC, so he will definitely be on EOYT, shouldn't he?
He’s got one game to prove himself but he’ll definitely be on the EOYT. I think Counties should loan him to Wellington for the playoffs so he gets more game time.
Haha some of your best that.
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@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2024:
It was good to see the ABs having a real go at winning turnovers at the rucks, and getting a few too. We haven't done that enough the last few years.
And Vaa’i contesting Bok lineouts was awesome
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@voodoo said in All Blacks 2024:
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2024:
It was good to see the ABs having a real go at winning turnovers at the rucks, and getting a few too. We haven't done that enough the last few years.
And Vaa’i contesting Bol lineouts was awesome
Vaa'i's been the most improved AB this year IMO. He definitely hasn't shrugged the hard stuff and seems to be improving the more he plays.
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@MiketheSnow so were NZ. What’s your point?
Both teams are missing players who would be pushing for selection in their respective 23s. Those that played were (for the most part) the best available.
Boks sneaked home twice. Experience counts.
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@Snowy said in All Blacks 2024:
The comparisons between Foster and Robertson are seriously premature. One had years to get better (apparently without doing so, assistants aside) the other has had months. As has been mentioned the Arg loss (which was appalling) was dreadful defence, then that got better and our offence is atrocious. Hopefully that is pendulum swinging and we find some balance.
We had RWC finalist players so pretty much had to start with them, move on from there. Like most here my major gripe is the loosies and we did have two good options that we didn’t try (yes Akira has been tried in the past but Kaino was too, he worked out OK when given another crack). We also need to address the outside backs, and to give Foster his due, as a full back Jordan makes an excellent wing. Even a stopped clock…
Change takes time and while it is happening life can be really shit.
The comparisons with Foster are due to the fact that Razor was posited as a panacea to stale tactics and selection policies that had been allowed to fester since around 2017.
Robertson was seen as a breath of fresh air. A positive guy who would revive and refresh the Allblacks.
While I agree he has only been in the job a few months , you’d think he would have come in to the job with some innovations or left field selection ideas in his arse pocket.
Instead we are watching the same bonkers chip kicks and exits, the same ensemble cast of underachievers, line fluffers and card magnets and the same evasive corporate jargon press conferences as the last guy .
He has already parted ways with one of his coaches which is indicative of inadequate preparation which was something I thought we didn’t have to worry about with Razor. I thought he was a rugby savant, but he is looking like a vibes guy. “It will be grand”.
Finau is in ahead of Akira and then dropped. He selects Beaudy as a 10 and a heap of outside backs in his first squad. Beaudy never plays 10 and outside backs such as Narawa get no minutes and are then dropped. Narawa is replaced by Love who comes in and gets…..no minutes. Perofeta is in the squad and then gone. If you are going to put your bollocks on the line by not selecting the Super Rugby MVP Sotutu in the whole squad, your madcap idea of 4 or 5 open side flankers better work. It hasn’t really has it.
If we had a back row of Finau, Sotutu and Papalii and Stevenson at 15 and Proctor at 13 I’d forgive a couple of losses as we are blooding new combos etc.
He’s currently just failing as much as the last guy did, with the same fucking players. What did he think was going to happen.
The longer this slump goes on , his legacy is going to look like he rode the coat tails of Whitelock and Mo’unga and was found out once they were gone.
He needs to sort it out. Fast.
He’s had at least 4 years to prepare for this job.
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@Billy-Tell said in All Blacks 2024:
There are some real drama queens on this thread. We weren’t that far off winning the 2 tests in SA. Against a settled SA side and coaching setup. It’s not a compete capitulation like if we were to get our asses handed to us by Australia in consecutive tests. From where we came from under foster to expect to go rapidly from strength to strength is totally unrealistic.
I think the drama is due to people being cognisant of the fact we have France England and Ireland to come. With 3 losses already on the ledger.
Twickenham Dublin and Paris were hard enough places to go with our GOAT team, never mind with a group of lads who seem to buckle under pressure and throw away leads,, can’t score in last 20 minutes etc.
3 more losses this year could seriously damage the playing group , the coaching group the jersey and the brand™️.
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@stodders said in All Blacks 2024:
Experience counts.
Our experience is adding fuck all.
In fact - I'm of the view some of these experienced players are holding us back.
Where are these experienced players to be seen in the last 20 minutes when we need them?
