All Blacks 2024
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@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2024:
It's time to try either ALB or Billy Proctor at centre with Reiko shifting to the wing. I wouldn't mind seeing Proctor given first crack in the next match. Jordie Barrett is still the best option at 12 but maybe Quinn Tupaea will get a recall on the trip north (though I don't think he's the long-term answer either).
I agree with everything you've written but this. Everyone is looking to replace Rieko as if he's the problem. Just look at the service and options Jordie provides him with. We need to find another 12 and I'd start ALB there to see what difference that makes.
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@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2024:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2024:
Apparently Roigard did a bronco of 4.15 or something...well down the recovery road.
What's his best
4.12 according to this article.
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@kpkanz said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@Yeahtheboys said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
Fozzie never lost a Rugby Championship
Foster only had ONE actual full RC with home and away.
2020 - no SA
2021 - no away games to SA or ARG because of COVID
2022 - the only proper RC, we had two games in SA and the 2nd test win was the decider for the entire RC, a wins a win but that match was an anomaly, the players going all out in a freak match knowing full and well that a loss would mean their coach being Sacked
2023 - shortened RC, only 3 games, and 2 of them against SA/AUS we were at home.
Razor with the current team wins each one of these.
The Foster revisionism is truly amazing.
Says the bloke coming up with an alternative universe to his liking.
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Obviously frustrating that the All Blacks lost, but it feels like we are finally ready to go through the growing pains to get better - I actually think there were more positives than negatives.
Williams, Vaa'i, Sititi, Ratima and Clarke all really stepped up and have probably answered a few questions that were had. Jordan will be fine in 15, so the big question mark really left hanging over the best starting side is the right wing. Reece and Tele'a look past their best, so the question is whether we go for Love as a secondary fullback, or potentially back to Narawa. Considering how good he is on defence, Tavatavanawai could also be a shout for those bigger tests.
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Just FYI, test match performance by NZ coaches.
All the excuses for Razor, but this is historically bad.
https://www.rugbydatabase.co.nz/team/coachList.php?teamId=3&test=1
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Well it's a fustrating year so far, overall a highly conservative selection process that has very timidly put forward any new blood into the international ranks. I don't understand in a year where you would get a free pass for rebuilding the team that we would seek to roll out as many old war horses as possible instead of training new ones.
This team can't seem to play for a full 80 minutes, Arg & SA 1 it was our defense and when we get our defence better in SA2 our attack goes missing.
The fact an assistant coach is gone already show's there's definate alignment problems there.
Whilst inidivdual players have stepped up and performed the team as a whole has not, exits and disclipine are still poor and our impact off the bench is getting worse and worse.
Yes we were close against SA and could have won both if only rugby was a 60 minute game. The last 20 minutes really cost us and it was the same in the loss to Arg.
It's a real case of one step forward and one step backwards and the team appears to be going around in circles.
I'm hoping they click and it all comes together soon, but there doesn't seem to be any real improvement.
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@nzzp said in All Blacks 2024:
Just FYI, test match performance by NZ coaches.
All the excuses for Razor, but this is historically bad.
https://www.rugbydatabase.co.nz/team/coachList.php?teamId=3&test=1
Sure, but there are also nuances to it. That loss to Argentina was an absolute fluke where we gifted them two tries, that were absolutely bizarre. Can hardly blame the coaches for that... and how often (in recent times) have we played South Africa back to back over there?
I think the long-term outlook for this All Black side is quite good, so long as Razor and his staff continue to learn and adapt, which they have thus far.
Fact is, as much as people like the idea of it, you can't drop everyone. That would lead to even worse results.
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@Windows97 said in All Blacks 2024:
Well it's a fustrating year so far, overall a highly conservative selection process that has very timidly put forward any new blood into the international ranks. I don't understand in a year where you would get a free pass for rebuilding the team that we would seek to roll out as many old war horses as possible instead of training new ones.
This team can't seem to play for a full 80 minutes, Arg & SA 1 it was our defense and when we get our defence better in SA2 our attack goes missing.
The fact an assistant coach is gone already show's there's definate alignment problems there.
Whilst inidivdual players have stepped up and performed the team as a whole has not, exits and disclipine are still poor and our impact off the bench is getting worse and worse.
Yes we were close against SA and could have won both if only rugby was a 60 minute game. The last 20 minutes really cost us and it was the same in the loss to Arg.
It's a real case of one step forward and one step backwards and the team appears to be going around in circles.
I'm hoping they click and it all comes together soon, but there doesn't seem to be any real improvement.
yeah....at least one of two things has to be true now...either we dont have the cattle, guys just arent smart enough implement whats been coached...or Razor isnt as good a coach as we hoped
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The comparisons between Foster and Robertson are seriously premature. One had years to get better (apparently without doing so, assistants aside) the other has had months. As has been mentioned the Arg loss (which was appalling) was dreadful defence, then that got better and our offence is atrocious. Hopefully that is pendulum swinging and we find some balance.
We had RWC finalist players so pretty much had to start with them, move on from there. Like most here my major gripe is the loosies and we did have two good options that we didn’t try (yes Akira has been tried in the past but Kaino was too, he worked out OK when given another crack). We also need to address the outside backs, and to give Foster his due, as a full back Jordan makes an excellent wing. Even a stopped clock…
Change takes time and while it is happening life can be really shit.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
We all agree that if we lose against this Wallabies side Razor should be sacked?
The gloss has well and truly come off and all the hype around Robertson has turned out to be, well, hype.
What exactly were your expectations? What was the gloss? The hype? There was hope, but most were pragmatic enough to know that super isn’t test. There is evidence of change and I certainly wasn’t expecting him to waltz/ break dance in and beat the Boks at home. I gave last year’s RWC holders more credit than that. We really should have sneaked a win in the end but it wasn’t as bad as it could have been.
If Robertson goes down the Foster road and keeps doing the same things and expecting different results, then hopefully the NZRU will recognise their mistake and dispatch him, unlike Foster who got reappointed after one win in SA.
Mils for example said 4 or 5 losses for the year would be acceptable, given what was in front of a newbie coach. I had hoped for 3 but that was highly unlikely. The loss to Arg at home was truly poor but the season can be salvaged with a good EoY tour. Certainly cannot lose to Oz but even then sacking him would probably be knee jerk ( albeit that I would be freeing up space in my cellar!).
Edit: last bit re sacking in response to @Kirwan
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@Snowy said in All Blacks 2024:
The comparisons between Foster and Robertson are seriously premature. One had years to get better (apparently without doing so, assistants aside) the other has had months. As has been mentioned the Arg loss (which was appalling) was dreadful defence, then that got better and our offence is atrocious. Hopefully that is pendulum swinging and we find some balance.
I don't get this argument. Foster's original assistants (not the ones he wanted but the ones he could get at the time) were replaced and then the team improved making a RWC final. So then people dismiss Foster by saying it's them that drove the improvement. Fair enough but to what extent? In that case, one of them just coached the Wallabies to a record defeat.
This helps confirm that it's not just the coach. But there's no suggestion Razor didn't get the ones he wanted. What is worrying was the discrepancy between himself and Leon.
And the squad selection is entirely on him too.
I also don't accept that making one thing better necessarily entails the others turning to shit. Not being able to score a solitary try in excellent conditions is worrying. But if the pendulum theory did hold true in this team, it would suggest to me that they're reactive and lurching from one problem to another.
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@antipodean that is why I said “assistants aside”. I was trying to leave that argument out of it!
I’m hoping that it is pendulum affect, an over compensation would be preferable to no change at all while some balance is found. Yes of course instantly perfect would be ideal 🙄
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@Windows97 said in All Blacks 2024:
Yes we were close against SA and could have won both if only rugby was a 60 minute game. The last 20 minutes really cost us and it was the same in the loss to Arg.
I'd say most teams would have said the same about playing the ABs under the Henry/Hansen era. Unfortunately for them, and for us right now, the last 20 minutes is where test matches are won and lost.
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I thought Razor did well to get the wins against England, in that he got the team prepared in a short space of time without making any real changes to tactics or personnel. They were tight wins that could have gone either way, but that really was a dream start for Razor.
I expected us to really build from that, and for Razor to make his mark on the team. However, we've just gone backwards at a rate of knots, and our ability to close out a game is just completely non existent now.
The whole "we were in a position to win but blew it" argument is awful and for losers. As I said above it's what other teams used to say about playing us to console themselves. I expect us to be in a position to win every match, all that matters is whether we actually win, and right now this team has zero composure in the final 20.
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@Victor-Meldrew France, Ireland , Argentina and South Africa are comparatively stronger than they were in 2004.
Australia less so. -
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2024:
and right now this team has zero composure in the final 20.
Absolutely. Unfortunately, with the research that has been done into successful teams, that comes down to on field leadership. We don’t have decent options who are first choice players there and Scott Barrett doesn’t see to have it.
Of course Robertson chose the captain.
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@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2024:
I thought Razor did well to get the wins against England, in that he got the team prepared in a short space of time without making any real changes to tactics or personnel. They were tight wins that could have gone either way, but that really was a dream start for Razor.
I expected us to really build from that, and for Razor to make his mark on the team. However, we've just gone backwards at a rate of knots, and our ability to close out a game is just completely non existent now.
The whole "we were in a position to win but blew it" argument is awful and for losers. As I said above it's what other teams used to say about playing us to console themselves. I expect us to be in a position to win every match, all that matters is whether we actually win, and right now this team has zero composure in the final 20.
Razor himself said after the England tests when questioned about the performance ,
Winning is the important part
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@canefan said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@MiketheSnow said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@kidcalder said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@LatsToTheMax
I have often thought Clarke could go well in midfield - size and good feet.
Maybe worth an experiment in super rugby to see what hands and vision are likeClarke is not the droid you’re looking for
He's only just starting to play rest rugby well at wing! You could see Nonu had something early on, I don't see that with Clarke. If he can be a very good winger I'll be satisfied
No one thought Nonu would be world class at 12.
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@LatsToTheMax said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@canefan said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@MiketheSnow said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@kidcalder said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@LatsToTheMax
I have often thought Clarke could go well in midfield - size and good feet.
Maybe worth an experiment in super rugby to see what hands and vision are likeClarke is not the droid you’re looking for
He's only just starting to play rest rugby well at wing! You could see Nonu had something early on, I don't see that with Clarke. If he can be a very good winger I'll be satisfied
Nonu thought Nonu would be world class at 12.
And he was right! 👍
