Foster, Robertson etc
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@taniwharugby said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Crucial his International experience was limited to his time as Assistant in the ABs wasnt it?
Yes but it wasn't just as an underling. Hansen promoted him heavily as part of a coaching/management team. Although he didn't carry head coach responsibilities he was doing a fair bit of head coach like duties.
For me the 'international' part is simply that the picture is very different planning wise.
Razor is excellent at planning SR campaigns but a test programme/ RWC is entirely different. You don't have the same rotation luxuries, you don't get to try things out as much, the season can be very different year to year (eg facing Ireland cold last year), the pool of international quality players is smaller than SR level for selction...I'm not saying that Razor couldn't deal with all of that just that he hasn't experienced it yet.
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@Crucial said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Razor is excellent at planning SR campaigns but a test programme/ RWC is entirely different. You don't have the same rotation luxuries, you don't get to try things out as much, the season can be very different year to year (eg facing Ireland cold last year), the pool of international quality players is smaller than SR level for selction...
Woah!!! Sounds like it might be to hard for him.
Needs a few more years at Super level for the massive change. -
@Frank said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Crucial said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Razor is excellent at planning SR campaigns but a test programme/ RWC is entirely different. You don't have the same rotation luxuries, you don't get to try things out as much, the season can be very different year to year (eg facing Ireland cold last year), the pool of international quality players is smaller than SR level for selction...
Woah!!! Sounds like it might be to hard for him.
Needs a few more years at Super level for the massive change.Nice of you not to quote the full post just so you could make a pithy remark.
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@Frank said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Crucial said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Razor is excellent at planning SR campaigns but a test programme/ RWC is entirely different. You don't have the same rotation luxuries, you don't get to try things out as much, the season can be very different year to year (eg facing Ireland cold last year), the pool of international quality players is smaller than SR level for selction...
Woah!!! Sounds like it might be to hard for him.
Needs a few more years at Super level for the massive change.Yes I'm sure a full-time professional coach with international ambitions would be completely unaware of those insurmountable obstacles.
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Frank said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Crucial said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Razor is excellent at planning SR campaigns but a test programme/ RWC is entirely different. You don't have the same rotation luxuries, you don't get to try things out as much, the season can be very different year to year (eg facing Ireland cold last year), the pool of international quality players is smaller than SR level for selction...
Woah!!! Sounds like it might be to hard for him.
Needs a few more years at Super level for the massive change.Yes I'm sure a full-time professional coach with international ambitions would be completely unaware of those insurmountable obstacles.
See the problem when you block a person then comment on their misquoted posts?
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@taniwharugby said in Foster, Robertson etc:
to me it feels like he is the one creating the 'distraction', creating an issue for his players to grab hold of.
Maybe if he told his team, win, lose or draw, I'm done post RWC (assuming this was his plan, but by the sounds of it, it isn't...) it would remove any 'distractions' but at the same time, he should have told all his main squad not to annouce thier intentions post-RWC as well, cos 'distractions'
yep, well said.
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am I reading this correctly from the foster interview with Mike Hosking it sounds like Foster thinks Robertson will be the next coach and it almost a done deal.
Two weeks ago frontrunner Robertson told media at a Crusaders training session that the ‘next two weeks is big’ in reference to the All Blacks job. Foster eluded that NZR were favouring the Crusaders coach.
“I’m pretty sure they’ve got a clear idea and you know and that’s up to them to voice that. But it does seem to be reasonably obvious. I thought there was an interview with the coach last week that made it look like there was already plans in place to go early. And that was frustrating to hear that from another voice,” he told Mike Hosking.
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@gt12 said in Foster, Robertson etc:
I think Foster has a point that this is really about Razor’s timeline.
I also think he’s doing the wrong thing by making this a public discussion. This won’t be a problem for the All Blacks unless he makes it one. Save that shit for the book Fozzie.
The timeline is nothing to do with razor, it is to do with last time almost all the coaches had already got a job, cos they weren't going to wait around for abs. The same still applies.
Foster should announce his retirement now, and then we can all get on with it. If the team is so mentally weak they can't take coaching speculation, that's a worry. And another black mark against their head coach
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The shambles continues...
If the NZRU had wanted to get rid of Foster they should have just sacked him straight up and advertised the role - that's starting the process before the WC all right.
But it appears they couldn't - for whatever reason's and instead sacked his assistants.
And now they announce they're selecting a coach prior to the RWC much to the surprise or at the least certainly not the support of the current coach going off Fosters interview.
So NZ now heads into the RWC with a coach who clearly knows the NZRU don't back him and want to give the job to someone else.
I don't rate Foster but FFS - either sack him or give him everything he needs to win the RWC.
Were stumbling into this WC like a patched together Frankenstein monster rather than a well oiled machine all heading in the same direction.
My main gripe with Fosters reappointment was that it appeared the NZRU doctored the process to simply get "their man" - in this case Foster.
Now moving on 4 years it appears nothing has changed, the NZRU has doctored the process to get "their man" now in this case Robertson.
It appears appointing the next AB coach has little to do with their ability and competency as a coach and more with their ability to play political subterfuge in darkened corridors at the NZR...
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If I was the coach and I knew they were giving the next RWC phase to someone else I'd use that as motivation to prove the bastards wrong. Or maybe I'd have enough motivation anyway, having failed at the last RWC...
And I am not sure what Foster needs from NZR that he is missing to win the RWC. Perhaps he will enlighten us.
In the jobs I know you don't do a good job in your current contract only if you get promised another contract afterwards. Maybe I have worked for the wrong bosses? -
If Fozzie doesn't realise how lucky he is to still be coach he is delusional. We were a rabble under his watch, as a result the NZRFU forced Schmidt and Ryan on him, which resulted in significant improvement. But if he lost that game in SA he was a goneburger. I want him to stop talking in the media acting all butt hurt, and fucken just get on with trying to win the Bled and the RWC. I'll be more than happy if he does this as a big FU to the union on his way out the door
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This is only a "distraction" for one reason -- Foster's record is so poor that the vultures are circling. If his team were playing well, we would not be having this discussion.
Most coaches go into the RWC either knowing that they will retire after, or hoping a good result will allow them to stay on. Foster, however, goes in knowing that he is toast, and unhappy about it. His fault entirely.
His complaint seems, to me, to be "stop noticing that my results are shit, and let me get on with delivering some more of the same uninterrupted."
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Ironically if we do well at the WC with this core group of players we can ask ourselves what the f**k happened over the last 3 years
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@Kiwiwomble said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Crucial was the "not presenting well" just the confidence we've heard mentioned as a negative?
Trying to put aside the gossip, hearsay and "a bloke down the pub told me, so I know more than you" bollocks, but looking at what people have actually said, it's clear to me NZR rate continuity, international experience and promoting from within highly. Foster fitted that bill and Robertson didn't. Not only that, the latter, by all accounts, made it clear he was only interested in the head job and either he, or his supporters, can be said to do a lot of media-puffing.
That sort of stuff probably wouldn't have gone down well with the people who make the decisions. And it's pretty clear the players rate Foster highly - it's interesting that some of the most vocal supporters are senior players those who've been coached by both Robertson & Foster. That will have impacted NZR's decision hugely, I think.
Personally, I'm completely agnostic on who coaches the ABs (I thought Foster should have gone after Ireland III), but if Robertson gets the nod, he'd better be the best AB coach of all time with a 90%+ win record after a few games in or the media shit-storm directed against him - and by extension the blokes who appointed him - is going to be epic.
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@BerniesCorner said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Ironically if we do well at the WC with this core group of players we can ask ourselves what the f**k happened over the last 3 years
Covid.
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@nostrildamus said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Actually he said
“That is our goal. We know we have to earn everyone’s respect. And we want to do that - bring the World Cup home - and if we do, I want to be able to stand up, and I’d like the opportunity to say that maybe I would like to have another crack at this job.”Not sure if it's been covered but that kinda sounds like he's saying he should get given the right to renew if he's such. Not really worded well otherwise.
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@Bones said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@nostrildamus said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Actually he said
“That is our goal. We know we have to earn everyone’s respect. And we want to do that - bring the World Cup home - and if we do, I want to be able to stand up, and I’d like the opportunity to say that maybe I would like to have another crack at this job.”Not sure if it's been covered but that kinda sounds like he's saying he should get given the right to renew if he's such. Not really worded well otherwise.
Yeah, my speculation of his position is that by not giving him the chance to re-apply, the NZRU are essentially saying that they don't see us having any chance of winning the thing.
If he does win it and wants to stay, but can't, that would be a unique situation for NZ rugby that wouldn't make him or the current coaching group feel particularly well supported.
[For the record, I don't think we will win it, and I don't want to see him stay on].
My position is that If they already know that they don't definitely don't want him in the job post world cup, they should have pulled the trigger last year.
My overarching feeling is that NZRU are run by a bunch of muppets (one in particular).
I used to think Tew stayed too long, but he was a master compared to the muppet show they've got going on there now.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Personally, I'm completely agnostic on who coaches the ABs (I thought Foster should have gone after Ireland III), but if Robertson gets the nod, he'd better be the best AB coach of all time with a 90%+ win record after a few games in or the media shit-storm directed against him - and by extension the blokes who appointed him - is going to be epic.
Nah, he will be given some leeway. Just like Foster was with all his shit performances.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Personally, I'm completely agnostic on who coaches the ABs (I thought Foster should have gone after Ireland III), but if Robertson gets the nod, he'd better be the best AB coach of all time with a 90%+ win record after a few games in or the media shit-storm directed against him - and by extension the blokes who appointed him - is going to be epic.
that makes no sense. Foster lost 4/5 games at the end of the 1-2 Irish series and was told it was "not acceptable" by Mark Robinson (https://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/62196682) so the shit storm was understandable..
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/300639756/the-charts-that-put-ian-fosters-all-blacks-coaching-record-in-sharp-perspectivebut what about now, it is not much better even with Razor's forwards coach and an international head coach. Foster has now a WHOPPING 67.65% AB winning record so who could state with a straight face that the next AB coach has to have a 90% winning record, at a time other countries are stronger and the AB talent pool has weakened?
Would only make sense to Foster fans.
