Thoughts on Cane now?
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I think Akira is one of those players who gets disproportionate backlash because he's expected to be a super star but hasn't got there. Disappointment maybe due to such high expectations? Maybe similar to Clark? He was the next Lomu not that long ago and to some he's now apparently useless and even has issues standing up straight.
I've always been a big fan of Akira, but it is very frustrating that he hasn't gone the full Kaino yet. In any event, I'd rather they persist with him than Frizzell.
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@junior said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@mariner4life said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
Cane, DP and Savea is a really terrible loose forward trio at the lineout.
I'm not sure it matters - we had 3 locks in our pack on Saturday, plus another couple of jumping options, and we failed to steal one throw off England.
I'm more worried about getting camped in our end with noodle-legged kickers and losing our own linouts
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@Chris said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@No-Quarter said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Chris said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@No-Quarter said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Chris said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@nzzp said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Chris said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@TheMojoman said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Stag said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Kirwan sorry, but you couldn’t be more wrong on that one.
Blackadder is terrific 6 at Super level but I haven't seen that translate into Test rugby yet.
A bit like Akira then.
only if you ignore MOTM performances, right.
He hasn't kicked on, but he has played some storming games in black.
I honestly don't remember any 80 min MOM performances in black.
And I am not being a smart arse.@Chris @Stargazer here you go guys, I know this will be tough reading for you both, but will hopefully job your memory a bit.
Plenty of votes here:
https://www.forum.thesilverfern.com/topic/4772/all-blacks-motm-vs-aus-i
MOTM here:
https://www.forum.thesilverfern.com/topic/4792/all-blacks-motm-vs-aus-ii?page=1
Backed up with another MOTM performance:
https://www.forum.thesilverfern.com/topic/4824/all-blacks-motm-vs-aus-iii
Three in a row where he was MOTM or in the mix.
Can also add a game against Fiji where he got plenty of votes just for good measure:
https://www.forum.thesilverfern.com/topic/4738/all-blacks-motm-v-fiji-2?page=1
And why not throw Tonga in there as well, got quite a few votes in that match as well:
https://www.forum.thesilverfern.com/topic/4707/all-blacks-motm-v-tonga?page=1
This is from 1 year ago. Guess you guys have pretty short memories?
Did you double and triple vote a few times.
I really rate your contributions on here mate, you know your shit and are involved in the game from grass roots up. I'm just staggered as to how you (and many others in fairness) seem to have such a blind spot for Akira's performances in black. He's been by far our best and most consistent 6 in the past few years. I think it's a real failure of the AB coaches to not utilise his strengths more and get him playing like he did in those games more consistently. I was hoping Ryan would help with that, but he seems to have just pushed him aside which is frustrating to see.
I appreciate that mate,but sorry I just see Akira going missing a lot and I wish he would run harder on to the ball instead of those stop start runs.
He frustrates me as he has potential to be an amazing athlete.I think this is maybe the dividing factor:
people see his potential and are upset he isn't directed better OR
people see his potential and get upset with him for laziness or something else -
This post is deleted!
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The Akira/Frizzel situation is just one I struggle to make sense of.
I do wonder if Akira had received the same loyalty from Fozzie as what fozzie has displayed to Frizzel in terms of selection would we even be talking about this at all?
Akira seems to have to play very well every time he pulls on the black jersey to keep his spot for the next week, whereas Frizzel can produce barely adequate performances from week to week yet constantly gets selected.
Frizzel is like Reuben Thorne - he's in the team but no-one knows why as he doesn't appear to do anything on the field and even worse it's not like Frizzel is the captain...
So I think it's justified that Akira supports feel that he hasn't been given a fair shake of the stick.
Frizzel is a rock of consistency however - does the same thing game after game without playing in my mind "good" or "bad" and maybe that's what fozzie is after?
Personally I'd just like to see Akira given a fair run at 6 for a stretch of games and see how he develops as there is obvious potential there. Frizzel appears to have hit his ceiling...already...
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
I think Akira is one of those players who gets disproportionate backlash because he's expected to be a super star but hasn't got there. Disappointment maybe due to such high expectations? Maybe similar to Clark? He was the next Lomu not that long ago and to some he's now apparently useless and even has issues standing up straight.
I've always been a big fan of Akira, but it is very frustrating that he hasn't gone the full Kaino yet. In any event, I'd rather they persist with him than Frizzell.
I find there's very little difference between Frizzell & Akira in terms of performance - both have good games and disappointing games. I just hope one of them kicks on and nails the 6 slot. Akira seems more likely.
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@Windows97 said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
I do wonder if Akira had received the same loyalty from Fozzie as what fozzie has displayed to Frizzel in terms of selection would we even be talking about this at all?
It goes back to Hansen and the toxic Blues environment.
With good early coaching at Super and AB level he could have been an absolute monster for us for years. Instead he got Tana, JK, late stage Hansen and Foster with his revolving door of assistants. That's the frustration for me; he had potential up the wazoo but just hasn't got to consistently high levels.
separately, our coaching (in NZ) is not consistently good. I look at what Henry did with Coles, and then what we did to Akira and now with Aumua, and we don't seem to be able to turn athletes with potential into world class players. Our coaching drain is biting us.
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@nzzp said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Windows97 said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
I do wonder if Akira had received the same loyalty from Fozzie as what fozzie has displayed to Frizzel in terms of selection would we even be talking about this at all?
It goes back to Hansen and the toxic Blues environment.
With good early coaching at Super and AB level he could have been an absolute monster for us for years. Instead he got Tana, JK, late stage Hansen and Foster with his revolving door of assistants. That's the frustration for me; he had potential up the wazoo but just hasn't got to consistently high levels.
separately, our coaching (in NZ) is not consistently good. I look at what Henry did with Coles, and then what we did to Akira and now with Aumua, and we don't seem to be able to turn athletes with potential into world class players. Our coaching drain is biting us.
hasn't stopped his bro though but maybe decent forwards coaching is harder to find?
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
I think Akira is one of those players who gets disproportionate backlash because he's expected to be a super star but hasn't got there. Disappointment maybe due to such high expectations? Maybe similar to Clark? He was the next Lomu not that long ago and to some he's now apparently useless and even has issues standing up straight.
I've always been a big fan of Akira, but it is very frustrating that he hasn't gone the full Kaino yet. In any event, I'd rather they persist with him than Frizzell.
I find there's very little difference between Frizzell & Akira in terms of performance - both have good games and disappointing games. I just hope one of them kicks on and nails the 6 slot. Akira seems more likely.
I just don't understand how Akira can be MOTM multiple times and in the mix for MOTM in so many other games, while Frizzel has been the mix for MOTM precisely zero times in all of his starts, and you can draw from that that there is very little difference in performance between the two. Even in Frizzel's much talked about game in SA II he took home a total of 6% of the votes. I feel like I'm living in a parallel universe to some of you guys where Frizzel actually has an impact on the games he starts. When Akira has a quiet game, that's equal to the best game Frizzel has ever produced.
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@No-Quarter said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
I think Akira is one of those players who gets disproportionate backlash because he's expected to be a super star but hasn't got there. Disappointment maybe due to such high expectations? Maybe similar to Clark? He was the next Lomu not that long ago and to some he's now apparently useless and even has issues standing up straight.
I've always been a big fan of Akira, but it is very frustrating that he hasn't gone the full Kaino yet. In any event, I'd rather they persist with him than Frizzell.
I find there's very little difference between Frizzell & Akira in terms of performance - both have good games and disappointing games. I just hope one of them kicks on and nails the 6 slot. Akira seems more likely.
I just don't understand how Akira can be MOTM multiple times and in the mix for MOTM in so many other games, while Frizzel has been the mix for MOTM precisely zero times in all of his starts, and you can draw from that that there is very little difference in performance between the two. Even in Frizzel's much talked about game in SA II he took home a total of 6% of the votes. I feel like I'm living in a parallel universe to some of you guys where Frizzel actually has an impact on the games he starts. When Akira has a quiet game, that's equal to the best game Frizzel has ever produced.
Was with you to the last sentence, Frizell had a good dominant game this year when he came back then went into background mode again.
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@nostrildamus said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@No-Quarter said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
I think Akira is one of those players who gets disproportionate backlash because he's expected to be a super star but hasn't got there. Disappointment maybe due to such high expectations? Maybe similar to Clark? He was the next Lomu not that long ago and to some he's now apparently useless and even has issues standing up straight.
I've always been a big fan of Akira, but it is very frustrating that he hasn't gone the full Kaino yet. In any event, I'd rather they persist with him than Frizzell.
I find there's very little difference between Frizzell & Akira in terms of performance - both have good games and disappointing games. I just hope one of them kicks on and nails the 6 slot. Akira seems more likely.
I just don't understand how Akira can be MOTM multiple times and in the mix for MOTM in so many other games, while Frizzel has been the mix for MOTM precisely zero times in all of his starts, and you can draw from that that there is very little difference in performance between the two. Even in Frizzel's much talked about game in SA II he took home a total of 6% of the votes. I feel like I'm living in a parallel universe to some of you guys where Frizzel actually has an impact on the games he starts. When Akira has a quiet game, that's equal to the best game Frizzel has ever produced.
Was with you to the last sentence, Frizell had a good dominant game this year when he came back then went into background mode again.
Did he? Which game was that?
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@No-Quarter said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@nostrildamus said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@No-Quarter said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
I think Akira is one of those players who gets disproportionate backlash because he's expected to be a super star but hasn't got there. Disappointment maybe due to such high expectations? Maybe similar to Clark? He was the next Lomu not that long ago and to some he's now apparently useless and even has issues standing up straight.
I've always been a big fan of Akira, but it is very frustrating that he hasn't gone the full Kaino yet. In any event, I'd rather they persist with him than Frizzell.
I find there's very little difference between Frizzell & Akira in terms of performance - both have good games and disappointing games. I just hope one of them kicks on and nails the 6 slot. Akira seems more likely.
I just don't understand how Akira can be MOTM multiple times and in the mix for MOTM in so many other games, while Frizzel has been the mix for MOTM precisely zero times in all of his starts, and you can draw from that that there is very little difference in performance between the two. Even in Frizzel's much talked about game in SA II he took home a total of 6% of the votes. I feel like I'm living in a parallel universe to some of you guys where Frizzel actually has an impact on the games he starts. When Akira has a quiet game, that's equal to the best game Frizzel has ever produced.
Was with you to the last sentence, Frizell had a good dominant game this year when he came back then went into background mode again.
Did he? Which game was that?
the game he came back I was surprised. Nope forgotten the details but will find.
nb what Messam thinks on Akira
The underrated All Black Messam has been most “impressed” with in 2022
“He’s growing into that role.”
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@nostrildamus said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@nzzp said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Windows97 said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
I do wonder if Akira had received the same loyalty from Fozzie as what fozzie has displayed to Frizzel in terms of selection would we even be talking about this at all?
It goes back to Hansen and the toxic Blues environment.
With good early coaching at Super and AB level he could have been an absolute monster for us for years. Instead he got Tana, JK, late stage Hansen and Foster with his revolving door of assistants. That's the frustration for me; he had potential up the wazoo but just hasn't got to consistently high levels.
separately, our coaching (in NZ) is not consistently good. I look at what Henry did with Coles, and then what we did to Akira and now with Aumua, and we don't seem to be able to turn athletes with potential into world class players. Our coaching drain is biting us.
hasn't stopped his bro though but maybe decent forwards coaching is harder to find?
there's a fair chunk of people here who don't rate Rieko.
And in fairness, wingers don't need much coaching compared to forwards. With the gas he had, just point at the tryline
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@No-Quarter said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
I think Akira is one of those players who gets disproportionate backlash because he's expected to be a super star but hasn't got there. Disappointment maybe due to such high expectations? Maybe similar to Clark? He was the next Lomu not that long ago and to some he's now apparently useless and even has issues standing up straight.
I've always been a big fan of Akira, but it is very frustrating that he hasn't gone the full Kaino yet. In any event, I'd rather they persist with him than Frizzell.
I find there's very little difference between Frizzell & Akira in terms of performance - both have good games and disappointing games. I just hope one of them kicks on and nails the 6 slot. Akira seems more likely.
I just don't understand how Akira can be MOTM multiple times and in the mix for MOTM in so many other games, while Frizzel has been the mix for MOTM precisely zero times in all of his starts, and you can draw from that that there is very little difference in performance between the two. Even in Frizzel's much talked about game in SA II he took home a total of 6% of the votes. I feel like I'm living in a parallel universe to some of you guys where Frizzel actually has an impact on the games he starts. When Akira has a quiet game, that's equal to the best game Frizzel has ever produced.
Your post places way too much credence on the opinions of Fern posters.
Given that Akira has his share of fanbois on here I doubt whether the % of votes is a good indicator of his performance and, as those same voters would have to have their mouses dragged kicking and screaming anywhere near the checkbox for SF I doubt that his numbers mean much either -
@Crucial said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@No-Quarter said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
I think Akira is one of those players who gets disproportionate backlash because he's expected to be a super star but hasn't got there. Disappointment maybe due to such high expectations? Maybe similar to Clark? He was the next Lomu not that long ago and to some he's now apparently useless and even has issues standing up straight.
I've always been a big fan of Akira, but it is very frustrating that he hasn't gone the full Kaino yet. In any event, I'd rather they persist with him than Frizzell.
I find there's very little difference between Frizzell & Akira in terms of performance - both have good games and disappointing games. I just hope one of them kicks on and nails the 6 slot. Akira seems more likely.
I just don't understand how Akira can be MOTM multiple times and in the mix for MOTM in so many other games, while Frizzel has been the mix for MOTM precisely zero times in all of his starts, and you can draw from that that there is very little difference in performance between the two. Even in Frizzel's much talked about game in SA II he took home a total of 6% of the votes. I feel like I'm living in a parallel universe to some of you guys where Frizzel actually has an impact on the games he starts. When Akira has a quiet game, that's equal to the best game Frizzel has ever produced.
Your post places way too much credence on the opinions of Fern posters.
Given that Akira has his share of fanbois on here I doubt whether the % of votes is a good indicator of his performance and, as those same voters would have to have their mouses dragged kicking and screaming anywhere near the checkbox for SF I doubt that his numbers mean much eitherHe also has a huge number of detractors on here who frequently move the goalposts when discussing him too, so it's not all one way traffic in favour of fanbois.
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@No-Quarter Jesus man. You are obsessed with motm polls.
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@No-Quarter said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
I think Akira is one of those players who gets disproportionate backlash because he's expected to be a super star but hasn't got there. Disappointment maybe due to such high expectations? Maybe similar to Clark? He was the next Lomu not that long ago and to some he's now apparently useless and even has issues standing up straight.
I've always been a big fan of Akira, but it is very frustrating that he hasn't gone the full Kaino yet. In any event, I'd rather they persist with him than Frizzell.
I find there's very little difference between Frizzell & Akira in terms of performance - both have good games and disappointing games. I just hope one of them kicks on and nails the 6 slot. Akira seems more likely.
I just don't understand how Akira can be MOTM multiple times and in the mix for MOTM in so many other games, while Frizzel has been the mix for MOTM precisely zero times in all of his starts, and you can draw from that that there is very little difference in performance between the two. Even in Frizzel's much talked about game in SA II he took home a total of 6% of the votes. I feel like I'm living in a parallel universe to some of you guys where Frizzel actually has an impact on the games he starts. When Akira has a quiet game, that's equal to the best game Frizzel has ever produced.
It's just my opinion on how I see Akira & Frizzell. The Fern collective opinion based on MOTM Polls will be another thing entirely.
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@KiwiMurph said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
A thread on the Fern about an ageing 7 (being overtaken by a young player who looks to have the ceiling to be world class) devolves into an argument about which non-world class 6 option is better. Classic Fern.
It's kinda the same discussion for me. Cane or DP starts? Meh, probably not gaining/losing a heck of a lot either way, might prefer one to start but not worth losing your shit over.
Replace Cane with Frizell and DP with AI in the above. The only difference being we're dying to find someone better than these 2.
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@No-Quarter said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
@MajorRage those MOTM polls I posted above are from 6 consecutive games where he was either MOTM or in the mix. After that he wasn't as prominent, not bad, just didn't stand out as much and he immediately just cops it for not being the best player on the pitch. Meanwhile a player like Frizzel puts together I don't know how many performances in a row where he doesn't really feature, but continues to get selected, and people start saying he's a better option. This year Akira was dropped for Frizzel despite being one of our better players after coming back from injury at a time when most of the ABs were under performing, and has barely had a chance since to get any form/confidence. If we all accept Akira has the highest ceiling, then why the hell isn't he getting consistent gametime to reach his potential given how often he's been a stand out for us in recent time? No other 6 in the country has come close. As I said, it's a failure of the coaches to utilise the strengths of one of our most talented players. Very frustrating to watch.
I don't disagree with any of the above.
The point with Akira last year was that after the 3 Bled games, we had the two Bok tests where plenty of us (I say us as I include myself here) were excited for him as he'd finally found his groove. And what happened? He went missing, in both matches. Perhaps he couldn't hold the level due to a bit of fatigue, I don't know. But it certainly looked like he was more of a bully of a player. And what happens when you stand up to a bully?
I am guilty of some of the above, with regards to Frizzell. I thought in Bok II this year he finally showed what he was capable of. And he deserves the same criticism as Akira here as he just doesn't consistently play to that level.
Anyway, it's the off season now so our coaching team should have been in both these guys ears about what they need to make the 6 jumper their own next year. Perhaps for another thread, I fear this won't have happened as the coaching squad have decided that somebody who is definitely not a 6 ... is a 6.
@No-Quarter said in Thoughts on Cane now?:
I just don't understand how Akira can be MOTM multiple times and in the mix for MOTM in so many other games, while Frizzel has been the mix for MOTM precisely zero times in all of his starts, and you can draw from that that there is very little difference in performance between the two. Even in Frizzel's much talked about game in SA II he took home a total of 6% of the votes. I feel like I'm living in a parallel universe to some of you guys where Frizzel actually has an impact on the games he starts. When Akira has a quiet game, that's equal to the best game Frizzel has ever produced.
I think Akira has a LOT of fans on here, where as Frizzell doesn't. That has a heavy push on the MOTM polls.
