All Blacks vs Wales
-
@JC said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Chester-Draws said in All Blacks vs Wales:
This place is beginning to sound like Keo's with all the whinging about the refereeing. Not pointing out mistakes, or issues with the rules, but the allegations that only we are being screwed over.
If it is every game -- and from some on here it is every game -- then we are the problem, not the referees.
You kinda did say there was no criticism of players. Anyway, I’m out.
I was talking about not being concerned about pointing out specific mistakes of the referees. The sentence before about the refereeing should have been a clue. Also "issues with the rules" is hardly to do with players.
Clearly there are some learnings to be done in the field of reading comprehension.
-
@Kirwan said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Catogrande said in All Blacks vs Wales:
There is a valid counter argument that they have been through the justice system, tried and found either guilty or innocent and that should be that and to be honest I find it difficult to disagree with that. The dig, I think, was more about the hypocrisy of the "Better people make better All Blacks" thing. If you're going to talk the talk, don't be surprised on getting called out if you're not walking the walk.
This has been called out by a fair few Kiwis on here in the past.
Oh yeah I'm not saying they should go to jail or anything, though Frizell got away with his one with almost no consequences at all. I'd have thought he could have at least jeopardised his AB career but no apparently despite smacking a woman over, he's not a "dick head". But yeah from a legal perspective, fair play, but I'll be fully supportive of anyone wanting to give them shit about it as well. That tweet was funny as hell.
And to be fair, can people not become better people. So if someone is bad they bad all their lives huh? Intersting world we getting to live in?
Part of how people can become better people is if they suffer consequences for their actions. Frizzel assaulted two people, one a woman, then basically sent threatening messages to them. The attack on the man was especially cowardly (punch from behind).
I can't imagine the victims feel like he endured any consequences for these actions at all.
Considering how average Frizzell has been at Test level, mediocre even, I'm not sure the All Black brand/reputation is worth his selection. Plenty of options in his position; Barrett, AI, Dalton, Grace, MMT (you could go on). Instead the message to the rest of the squad is even if you get caught with this sort of awful behaviour, we have your back!
Bring back Graham Henry IMO.
This
-
@Catogrande said in All Blacks vs Wales:
There is a valid counter argument that they have been through the justice system, tried and found either guilty or innocent and that should be that.
The justice system does two things.
It decides if enough evidence exists to meet the charge -- that is often very different from being "innocent". You might get off your charge of assault while still having hit the person.
A magistrate decides a sentence. Shannon Frizzell was found "guilty" but avoided conviction. Twice.
Thinking he's a violent scumbag should not depend on the lack of desire by the magistrate to formally convict.
-
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Bones said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Kiwiwomble I've never heard of Matt Hardy.
neither had i, or his apparently more famous brothers, also pretty standard kind of names, there will be millions or Matt's and millions of hardy's
I knew you were younger but not that much! Educate yourself.
@Kruse no. And I'm not gonna educate myself.
-
@Bones said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Bones said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Kiwiwomble I've never heard of Matt Hardy.
neither had i, or his apparently more famous brothers, also pretty standard kind of names, there will be millions or Matt's and millions of hardy's
I knew you were younger but not that much! Educate yourself.
@Kruse no. And I'm not gonna educate myself.
jesus...i honestly had no idea what their first names were
-
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks vs Wales:
Not to derail the thread but I honestly don't have a problem with them having a dig at all. If you smack a woman over then you can expect to cop shit for it for the rest of your life, it's a fucking unforgivable thing to do. Personally I wouldn't want to be in the same team as either of them. Frizzel's offense was particularly bad.
In general I think paid reporting should be professional. If I want to read a blog on what’s happening in a rugby match I don’t want social commentary thrown in. In saying that those blogs tend to be full of attempts at witty comedy, the writer no doubt thinks he’s a laugh a minute.
-
@Billy-Tell i mean....what theyve tweeted is true, even linked the reporting....
-
@Kirwan said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Catogrande said in All Blacks vs Wales:
There is a valid counter argument that they have been through the justice system, tried and found either guilty or innocent and that should be that and to be honest I find it difficult to disagree with that. The dig, I think, was more about the hypocrisy of the "Better people make better All Blacks" thing. If you're going to talk the talk, don't be surprised on getting called out if you're not walking the walk.
This has been called out by a fair few Kiwis on here in the past.
Oh yeah I'm not saying they should go to jail or anything, though Frizell got away with his one with almost no consequences at all. I'd have thought he could have at least jeopardised his AB career but no apparently despite smacking a woman over, he's not a "dick head". But yeah from a legal perspective, fair play, but I'll be fully supportive of anyone wanting to give them shit about it as well. That tweet was funny as hell.
And to be fair, can people not become better people. So if someone is bad they bad all their lives huh? Intersting world we getting to live in?
Part of how people can become better people is if they suffer consequences for their actions. Frizzel assaulted two people, one a woman, then basically sent threatening messages to them. The attack on the man was especially cowardly (punch from behind).
I can't imagine the victims feel like he endured any consequences for these actions at all.
Considering how average Frizzell has been at Test level, mediocre even, I'm not sure the All Black brand/reputation is worth his selection. Plenty of options in his position; Barrett, AI, Dalton, Grace, MMT (you could go on). Instead the message to the rest of the squad is even if you get caught with this sort of awful behaviour, we have your back!
Bring back Graham Henry IMO.
I not suggesting anyone should get let off, how many women (and men) are assaulted evry week in our country, or elsewhere for that matter. Now tell me how many of these same jokers are getting the same amount of shit everyday of their lives. I remember over in Aus a few years back when a top law stundent ( and a son of a judge) king hit someone who ended up in hospital and very ill, he got no guilt by a judge and was hounded for quite sometime, and they do suffer consequences.. Then the question was asked by a lawyer, do people realise how often it happens, and unless the person is prominent in some way that is usually the end. I in now way defending Frizzell or anyone who commits assault on anyone (male or female) in any form, but I wonder how many who are vocal online etc actually check how many people they know who have done similar etc. See I don't find difference in assault on male,or female, etc. I also hope that a good number who have been given a chance make most of it and learn.
-
@Dan54 I don’t understand your point. You use an example of another person with a privileged circumstance getting off to prove that other people get off unfairly?
If people, regardless of circumstances, are routinely getting off assault charges as well, then we have an even bigger problem. As all that teaches people is you can assault who you like.
Can we at least agree that getting rushed back into the All Blacks as soon as they were able to taught the thug nothing?
-
@Kirwan said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Dan54 I don’t understand your point. You use an example of another person with a privileged circumstance getting off to prove that other people get off unfairly?
If people, regardless of circumstances, are routinely getting off assault charges as well, then we have an even bigger problem. As all that teaches people is you can assault who you like.
Can we at least agree that getting rushed back into the All Blacks as soon as they were able to taught the thug nothing?
Mate the point I trying to make is he hasn't got off scott free as was said in some posts, and generally people who are actually well known are getting punishment at times because of press etc, and them getting ripped to pieces (and maybe rightly) in both press and forums etc, what I am saying how do you we know who gets of lighter than others, unless we actually find out the story on all cases. There is every chance there are people who I (and maybe you and others know) who have done similar or indeed worth, but because they noy sportsman or well known they haven't been in press etc and we don't know about it.. It's not defending anyone, just saying perhaps one of the reasons that judges do actually give seemingly lenient sentences, because they consider how much punishment it is too cop shit for a long time in public etc. I not saying I agree, but that was explained to me by a mate who was a lawyer in Aus when discussing a personality who got what we thought was a light sentence. He said judges will almost always consider if it will impact on the offenders ability to actually improve including even travelling overseas etc in their profession. Most (I would bet I right) people that commited a similar offence to Frizzell would of received a fine and probably community work (was his first offence I believe) then carried on with their lives without it being brought up in papers or on the net every other week. So tell me who we think is getting off scott free? As I say I not defending him or anyone, but do we say if you commit assault there is no coming back?
If you can show me enough cases where lesser known people have got much heavier sentences for regularly , you have a point, but I think it is actually a lot more common than we think.FFS we have has people rightfully protesting because some young bugger raped a few young girls and got home detention for 6 months, and he's not or wasn't famous
-
@Dan54 said in All Blacks vs Wales:
make is he hasn't got off scott free as was said in some posts
He got as close to getting off scott free as anyone possibly can. His charges were dropped because he was offered diversion.
I'm really unsure how the Police decided this case met the following criteria for diversion:
"Do not minimise violence suffered by the victim. The circumstances of the offending and the victim's views are most important in considering violent offences for diversion."I guess the police also didn't charge him with the threats he made as that would have then been an aggravating factor which should also have ruled him out of receiving diversion.
-
@Kirwan said in All Blacks vs Wales:
Can we at least agree that getting rushed back into the All Blacks as soon as they were able to taught the thug nothing?
He was back in the squad in July last year after the incident happened in May. Wild, honestly.
And while his performance against the Boks this year was actually good he was clearly playing above himself. He can't sustain that level. It really calls into question what the purpose of him is if he's only achieving a pass mark at best.
-
@Nepia said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks vs Wales:
make is he hasn't got off scott free as was said in some posts
He got as close to getting off scott free as anyone possibly can. His charges were dropped because he was offered diversion.
I'm really unsure how the Police decided this case met the following criteria for diversion:
"Do not minimise violence suffered by the victim. The circumstances of the offending and the victim's views are most important in considering violent offences for diversion."I guess the police also didn't charge him with the threats he made as that would have then been an aggravating factor which should also have ruled him out of receiving diversion.
Yep mate, you misunderstood my saying he hasn't got off scot free. I was simply meaning his reputation is thrashed, and still is by people on the net and many many others are just going on without anyone (and probably a lot of friends) knowing.
It's the same as things like the me too movement, the only people being outed are stars etc, while really it makes absolutely no difference to the Joe Blogg who is/are doing a lot worse! Not defending anyone just pointing out the difference and hypcrocary of a lot of this shit. As I said in post, some young mongrel got home detention for multiple rapes just a few months ago, do you remember his name etc? I certainly don't, and I imagine he will not be villified as someone who is well known and has done lesser things. Mind you this is probably wrong thread for me to say how pissed I get at the double standards a lot seem to. -
Apparently we have a new JC....???
-
@Mattasaurus said in All Blacks vs Wales:
Apparently we have a new JC....???
Akira Ioane fans are going to choke on their morning coffees reading this
-
@MN5 said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Mattasaurus said in All Blacks vs Wales:
Apparently we have a new JC....???
Akira Ioane fans are going to choke on their morning coffees reading this
Just more proof about how dumb Dagg is really.
-
-
To be fair to Dagg, he doesn't really say Friz is the a "modern-day JK" at all.
He says "“Shannon at six, he is a must,” Dagg told SENZ Mornings.
“We’ve been looking for (and saying), ‘Who’s going to be that Jerome Kaino that comes in and adds that real oomph at the six position,’ and he is our guy.
“He does all the hard work, he carries extremely well, he defends really (well and) he’s another lineout option; he’s a big man so he’s a genuine lineout option there for Sammy Whitelock and Scotty Barrett.”
It's not a completely outrageous comment.
-
@voodoo said in All Blacks vs Wales:
To be fair to Dagg, he doesn't really say Friz is the a "modern-day JK" at all.
He says "“Shannon at six, he is a must,” Dagg told SENZ Mornings.
“We’ve been looking for (and saying), ‘Who’s going to be that Jerome Kaino that comes in and adds that real oomph at the six position,’ and he is our guy.
“He does all the hard work, he carries extremely well, he defends really (well and) he’s another lineout option; he’s a big man so he’s a genuine lineout option there for Sammy Whitelock and Scotty Barrett.”
It's not a completely outrageous comment.
Wow, a headline that doesn’t actually match what is in a quote. Surely not.
Dagg on the All Blacks’ modern-day Jerome Kaino and loose trio dominance
