All Blacks v Wales Test #3

mooshld

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="No Quarter" data-cid="590234" data-time="1466491354">
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The three match series is brilliant, long may it continue. Gives teams like Wales and Ireland a chance of beating us. I'd love to see the same in the NH tours.
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As would I but I fear with the national stadium system they use in the NH it would get a bit repetitive.

pakman

I agree that midfield hasn't been that bad. And although Roberts looks shagged, pays to remember he and Davies are the Lions incumbents. 
 
That said, Crotty and Fekitoa haven't gelled. Not sure how fast Crotty is, but Fekitoa looks best to me when outside someone with a bit of toe.
 
For me our backline works most effectively when we have at 12 a unit who can straighten attack and will pull opposition 13 in a bit and so create space for outsides. Moala has brought that very well to the table for Blues. SBW will tick that box later in year.
 
Interesting Crotty hasn't been given a run at 13, which like others I think is his best long term AB position. 
 
Was really looking forward to seeing Ngatai in ABs. Has been sublime for Chiefs. A fair size, but with kicking game, and Mauger-like decision making. And can shift a bit. 
 
Is sounding in press like a Crotty/Tamanivatu combo to start Saturday.

SabalomG

The series are good fun. You really appreciate seeing the other teams now, knowing that they won't be back 2 years later. Would really love it if they could somehow agree to a Springbok tour (or ABs in the Republic). Maybe they could do it when the Lions are in Australia, and the Argies can play France

gollum

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="MajorRage" data-cid="590181" data-time="1466470580">
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I can't see why that would happen. You have Crotty, Fekitoa currently starting, Tamanivalu on the bench (and has been seeing game time), SBW to return from sevens & Ngatai to return from injury. 
 
The midfield stocks are looking stronger than the outside backs at the moment.
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NMS, Dagg, Savea, Naholo & maybe Dmac are all genuine test quality in terms of what the AB's want from back 3.
 
In contrast only SBW is out & out AB quality in the centres. Crotty is solid but will never be a 9/10 player. Ngatai might be, but at the moment he's just a guy that looks good in a Super team. And the others are smashers not thinkers - Fekitoa & Tamanivalu - and Fekitoa looks increasingly bad. So there's "in theory" depth in the centres, but its the same way we had depth in 1998 with Gibson, Mayerfhofler, Clarke & Berryman. And we have a bad track record playing 2 big physical centres.
 
I don't really want Ben Smith anywhere bar 15, but I can see we can play a AB quality back 3 without Smith, I look in the centres & I'm sort of betting the house on Ngatai converting his Super class to AB level & partnering SBW. - ie a guy who barely ever sticks around & a guy who hasn't actually done dick. So I think the selectors will revisit Smith in 13 - even just 30 minutes, at some stage. Hopefully just in backup to the new Smith & Nonu that Ngatai & SBW will be right thru to the next WC...

rotated

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="MajorRage" data-cid="590181" data-time="1466470580">
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The midfield stocks are looking stronger than the outside backs at the moment.
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With all fit and available we have two world class talents in Smith and NMS and two players who were world class in the past with reasons they can do it again in Dagg & Savea. Plus Barrett who is the best in the world at what he does - primarily operating out of fullback. Plus whatever Naholo is.
 
In the centres we have no world class players who can lay claim to a jersey, and the only one close is SBW who is yet to prove he can dominate without coming off the bench - which he will now have to do.

DMX

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="rotated" data-cid="590312" data-time="1466522422">With all fit and available we have two world class talents in Smith and NMS and two players who were world class in the past with reasons they can do it again in Dagg & Savea. Plus Barrett who is the best in the world at what he does - primarily operating out of fullback. Plus whatever Naholo is. 
 
In the centres we have no world class players who can lay claim to a jersey, and the only one close is SBW who is yet to prove he can dominate without coming off the bench - which he will now have to do.</blockquote>
 
Watching the midfielders in all the test matches over the weekend I think you can make a pretty good case that SBW is world class. I would also guess that Ngatai has just started to scratch the upside of his potential.

JayCee

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="pakman" data-cid="590243" data-time="1466493656">
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For me our backline works most effectively when we have at 12 a unit who can straighten attack and will pull opposition 13 in a bit and so create space for outsides. Moala has brought that very well to the table for Blues. SBW will tick that box later in year.
 
Interesting Crotty hasn't been given a run at 13, which like others I think is his best long term AB position. 
 
Was really looking forward to seeing Ngatai in ABs. Has been sublime for Chiefs. A fair size, but with kicking game, and Mauger-like decision making. And can shift a bit. 
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A couple times during the 2nd test when we looked a bit aimless I was thinking "ah, now would be the time we'd used Nonu for some go forward, get some structure back". Pretty disappointed that we'll have to wait to see if Ngatai can be that guy for the ABs.

rotated

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="DMX" data-cid="590315" data-time="1466526338">
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Watching the midfielders in all the test matches over the weekend I think you can make a pretty good case that SBW is world class. I would also guess that Ngatai has just started to scratch the upside of his potential.
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Neither have proven they are test starters - although I have high hopes for Ngatai.
 
Even with SBW people are projecting success coming off the bench at centre, to mean he will be a world class second-five. It's not a slam dunk.
 
Similarly Barrett's exploits off the bench at fullback in seasons past won't necessarily translate to him being a great starting first-five.

DMX

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="rotated" data-cid="590320" data-time="1466537536">Neither have proven they are test starters - although I have high hopes for Ngatai. 
 
Even with SBW people are projecting success coming off the bench at centre, to mean he will be a world class second-five. It's not a slam dunk. 
 
Similarly Barrett's exploits off the bench at fullback in seasons past won't necessarily translate to him being a great starting first-five.</blockquote>
 
We agree on Ngatai, on SBW I don't think I can think of any other test 12 that I would rather have.

Bovidae

SBW looked the part as a starter in 2012, and he is a better 2nd 5 now than he was back then. I also want to see a SBW-Ngatai combo.

MajorRage

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="gollum" data-cid="590283" data-time="1466506546">
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NMS, Dagg, Savea, Naholo & maybe Dmac are all genuine test quality in terms of what the AB's want from back 3.
 
In contrast only SBW is out & out AB quality in the centres. Crotty is solid but will never be a 9/10 player. Ngatai might be, but at the moment he's just a guy that looks good in a Super team. And the others are smashers not thinkers - Fekitoa & Tamanivalu - and Fekitoa looks increasingly bad. So there's "in theory" depth in the centres, but its the same way we had depth in 1998 with Gibson, Mayerfhofler, Clarke & Berryman. And we have a bad track record playing 2 big physical centres.
 
I don't really want Ben Smith anywhere bar 15, but I can see we can play a AB quality back 3 without Smith, I look in the centres & I'm sort of betting the house on Ngatai converting his Super class to AB level & partnering SBW. - ie a guy who barely ever sticks around & a guy who hasn't actually done dick. So I think the selectors will revisit Smith in 13 - even just 30 minutes, at some stage. Hopefully just in backup to the new Smith & Nonu that Ngatai & SBW will be right thru to the next WC...
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Naholo has this forum split 50/50, Savea is not looking himself, Dmac has never played for the ABs, so that leaves an injured guy, Dagg & Smith.
 
None of Fekitoa, Crotty or Tamanivalu has set the world on fire so far, but they haven't disgraced the jumper either - all of had a hand in setting up some tries, and most of the leaky defence has been out wide, not through the middle. Moala has been playing well, and has AB experience, so combine that with the untested Ngatai and the seaseoned Sonny Bill ... I cannot see any reason to look to move one of the worlds best outside backs into the centres.

rotated

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="DMX" data-cid="590323" data-time="1466539811">
We agree on Ngatai, on SBW I don't think I can think of any other test 12 that I would rather have.</blockquote>
 
I haven't seen a 10 I prefer over Barrett other than Cruden. I'm not sold on him either.

DMX

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="rotated" data-cid="590369" data-time="1466554076">I haven't seen a 10 I prefer over Barrett other than Cruden. I'm not sold on him either.</blockquote>
 
Sounds like an impossible to please AB fan. You can only compare players to who they play or will play, if you prefer them to everyone else in the world I think that is a pretty good start.

rotated

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="DMX" data-cid="590377" data-time="1466554668">
Sounds like an impossible to please AB fan. You can only compare players to who they play or will play, if you prefer them to everyone else in the world I think that is a pretty good start.</blockquote>
 
You are comparing what you think someone is capable of vs what you know people are capable of. Let's just wait and see. Otherwise Toeava is still better than Tim Horan.

taniwharugby

Apparently Moala has been training at 13, Squire also looking a possibility at bench spot...if you take media speculation of who is running about where in the training sessions.

MN5

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="taniwharugby" data-cid="590396" data-time="1466557468">
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Apparently Moala has been training at 13, Squire also looking a possibility at bench spot...if you take media speculation of who is running about where in the training sessions.
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As like for like he looks the best bet to replicate what Nonu did so well for so long.
 
He actually has more AB experience than Ngatai so I find it interesting that the drums are beating louder for the latter. I guess it's the whole "can't have him at 12 if Fekitoa is at 13" scenario.

KiwiMurph

Moala has looked better at 13 for the Blues this season than he has at 12.
 
However having said that, I think a big part of that is the Blues 13s of Ranger/Sau, who don't really mesh with Moala. The Francis-Moala combo has worked much better.

Provincial Stalwart

Moala is marginally more experienced as an AB though Ngatai is the one with (minimal) minutes in the midfield. Moala and Ngatai's sole test appearance was in the game in Apia last year - Moala started on the left wing and Ngatai made a second half cameo in the midfield (replacing? Crotty, or SBW (or neither). 
 
Let's just say that both guys are inexperienced. Moala has more "in camp" experience, there you go. And Ngatai is not getting much experience this month because of his mushy swede.
 
I'm not salivating at the prospect of Moala being on the bench on Saturday but he seem the only choice if Fekitoa is out and Tamanivalu promoted to start.

MN5

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Provincial Stalwart" data-cid="590429" data-time="1466561990">
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Moala is marginally more experienced as an AB though Ngatai is the one with (minimal) minutes in the midfield. Moala and Ngatai's sole test appearance was in the game in Apia last year - Moala started on the left wing and Ngatai made a second half cameo in the midfield (replacing? Crotty, or SBW (or neither). 
 
Let's just say that both guys are inexperienced. Moala has more "in camp" experience, there you go. And Ngatai is not getting much experience this month because of his mushy swede.
 
I'm not salivating at the prospect of Moala being on the bench on Saturday but he seem the only choice if Fekitoa is out and Tamanivalu promoted to start. 

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Not denying that, I guess Ngatai is just the more popular guy on the fern in particular but then again there are lots of Chiefs fans here.

NTA

ABs by 20

The Silver Fern

All Blacks v Wales Test #3