All Blacks v Wales Test #3
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="reprobate" data-cid="590176" data-time="1466470091">
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<p>it's not the midfield wales have been busting through, and while it's not like we've looked creative or dangerous there, our guys haven't really made too many glaring errors up against roberts and davies who are both pretty good players and a well established combination.</p>
<p>combinations take time and we've been pretty spoilt for a long time now - you can't expect a new pairing to immediately have anything approaching the nonu-smith welly/canes/ABs combo. i'd be happy to give them a pass mark so far, though i still do think crotty is a better 13 than 12.</p>
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<p>I'm probably the biggest Jamie Roberts fan on this forum. But he hasn't been anywhere near the heights he's able to reach on this tour.</p> -
<p>according to radio sport, both Cruden and BB took part in training this morning, Fekitoa did not train.</p>
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="MajorRage" data-cid="590181" data-time="1466470580">
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<p>I can't see why that would happen. You have Crotty, Fekitoa currently starting, Tamanivalu on the bench (and has been seeing game time), SBW to return from sevens & Ngatai to return from injury. </p>
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<p>The midfield stocks are looking stronger than the outside backs at the moment.</p>
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<p>Agree with this. On top of those you mentioned you also have ALB and Rieko Ioane as youngsters pushing their case for spots. </p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="DMX" data-cid="590111" data-time="1466449436"><p>
Agree to disagree , I would far rather see how we match up against England for example. 3 tests against same team too much unless it's the Lions for me.</p></blockquote>
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You youngsters. No attention span. -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Baron Silas Greenback" data-cid="589883" data-time="1466385528"><p>
Have the coaches said anything about Harris being selected ahead of Taylor for the first 2 tests?<br><br>
Because unless they have, I think everyone's assumption that Taylor is ahead in the pecking order is a bit premature.</p></blockquote>
Not my assumption. My assumption is Harris is number 2. But I'd pick Taylor somewhere this week. Either starting with Coles bench. Or in place of Harris on the benching. Just as minor squad rotation, depth investment. But Shag never listens to me. -
<p>so are you (DMX) suggesting we have these 2 v Wales and then a one off v England, or say a 2 test series v England and 1 off v Wales?</p>
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<p>What if England was still sucking and was 2-0 down in their series, would you still be keen for that match?</p> -
The three match series is brilliant, long may it continue. Gives teams like Wales and Ireland a chance of beating us. I'd love to see the same in the NH tours.
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<p>I like them because it feels traditional , thats how it was as a kid growing up , </p>
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<p>All we need now is a few more midweekers and a game against the maoris </p> -
<p>I like the three match series. The thing with a series is that you have time to respond to tactics and strategy. Tests coaches and players no end - they have to change up their game plans, modify their style and win against people who start to anticipate what you do.</p>
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<p>Must be bloody hard for touring sides to come here though...</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="No Quarter" data-cid="590234" data-time="1466491354">
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<p>The three match series is brilliant, long may it continue. Gives teams like Wales and Ireland a chance of beating us. I'd love to see the same in the NH tours.</p>
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<p>As would I but I fear with the national stadium system they use in the NH it would get a bit repetitive.</p> -
<p>I agree that midfield hasn't been that bad. And although Roberts looks shagged, pays to remember he and Davies are the Lions incumbents. </p>
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<p>That said, Crotty and Fekitoa haven't gelled. Not sure how fast Crotty is, but Fekitoa looks best to me when outside someone with a bit of toe.</p>
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<p>For me our backline works most effectively when we have at 12 a unit who can straighten attack and will pull opposition 13 in a bit and so create space for outsides. Moala has brought that very well to the table for Blues. SBW will tick that box later in year.</p>
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<p>Interesting Crotty hasn't been given a run at 13, which like others I think is his best long term AB position. </p>
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<p>Was really looking forward to seeing Ngatai in ABs. Has been sublime for Chiefs. A fair size, but with kicking game, and Mauger-like decision making. And can shift a bit. </p>
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<p>Is sounding in press like a Crotty/Tamanivatu combo to start Saturday.</p> -
<p>The series are good fun. You really appreciate seeing the other teams now, knowing that they won't be back 2 years later. Would really love it if they could somehow agree to a Springbok tour (or ABs in the Republic). Maybe they could do it when the Lions are in Australia, and the Argies can play France</p>
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="MajorRage" data-cid="590181" data-time="1466470580">
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<p>I can't see why that would happen. You have Crotty, Fekitoa currently starting, Tamanivalu on the bench (and has been seeing game time), SBW to return from sevens & Ngatai to return from injury. </p>
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<p>The midfield stocks are looking stronger than the outside backs at the moment.</p>
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<p>NMS, Dagg, Savea, Naholo & maybe Dmac are all genuine test quality in terms of what the AB's want from back 3.</p>
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<p>In contrast only SBW is out & out AB quality in the centres. Crotty is solid but will never be a 9/10 player. Ngatai might be, but at the moment he's just a guy that looks good in a Super team. And the others are smashers not thinkers - Fekitoa & Tamanivalu - and Fekitoa looks increasingly bad. So there's "in theory" depth in the centres, but its the same way we had depth in 1998 with Gibson, Mayerfhofler, Clarke & Berryman. And we have a bad track record playing 2 big physical centres.</p>
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<p>I don't really want Ben Smith anywhere bar 15, but I can see we can play a AB quality back 3 without Smith, I look in the centres & I'm sort of betting the house on Ngatai converting his Super class to AB level & partnering SBW. - ie a guy who barely ever sticks around & a guy who hasn't actually done dick. So I think the selectors will revisit Smith in 13 - even just 30 minutes, at some stage. Hopefully just in backup to the new Smith & Nonu that Ngatai & SBW will be right thru to the next WC...</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="MajorRage" data-cid="590181" data-time="1466470580">
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<p>The midfield stocks are looking stronger than the outside backs at the moment.</p>
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<p>With all fit and available we have two world class talents in Smith and NMS and two players who were world class in the past with reasons they can do it again in Dagg & Savea. Plus Barrett who is the best in the world at what he does - primarily operating out of fullback. Plus whatever Naholo is.</p>
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<p>In the centres we have no world class players who can lay claim to a jersey, and the only one close is SBW who is yet to prove he can dominate without coming off the bench - which he will now have to do.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="rotated" data-cid="590312" data-time="1466522422"><p>With all fit and available we have two world class talents in Smith and NMS and two players who were world class in the past with reasons they can do it again in Dagg & Savea. Plus Barrett who is the best in the world at what he does - primarily operating out of fullback. Plus whatever Naholo is.<br>
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In the centres we have no world class players who can lay claim to a jersey, and the only one close is SBW who is yet to prove he can dominate without coming off the bench - which he will now have to do.</p></blockquote>
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Watching the midfielders in all the test matches over the weekend I think you can make a pretty good case that SBW is world class. I would also guess that Ngatai has just started to scratch the upside of his potential. -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="pakman" data-cid="590243" data-time="1466493656">
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<p>For me our backline works most effectively when we have at 12 a unit who can straighten attack and will pull opposition 13 in a bit and so create space for outsides. Moala has brought that very well to the table for Blues. SBW will tick that box later in year.</p>
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<p>Interesting Crotty hasn't been given a run at 13, which like others I think is his best long term AB position. </p>
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<p>Was really looking forward to seeing Ngatai in ABs. Has been sublime for Chiefs. A fair size, but with kicking game, and Mauger-like decision making. And can shift a bit. </p>
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<p>A couple times during the 2nd test when we looked a bit aimless I was thinking "ah, now would be the time we'd used Nonu for some go forward, get some structure back". Pretty disappointed that we'll have to wait to see if Ngatai can be that guy for the ABs.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="DMX" data-cid="590315" data-time="1466526338">
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<p>Watching the midfielders in all the test matches over the weekend I think you can make a pretty good case that SBW is world class. I would also guess that Ngatai has just started to scratch the upside of his potential.</p>
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<p>Neither have proven they are test starters - although I have high hopes for Ngatai.</p>
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<p>Even with SBW people are projecting success coming off the bench at centre, to mean he will be a world class second-five. It's not a slam dunk.</p>
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<p>Similarly Barrett's exploits off the bench at fullback in seasons past won't necessarily translate to him being a great starting first-five.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="rotated" data-cid="590320" data-time="1466537536"><p>Neither have proven they are test starters - although I have high hopes for Ngatai.<br>
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Even with SBW people are projecting success coming off the bench at centre, to mean he will be a world class second-five. It's not a slam dunk.<br>
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Similarly Barrett's exploits off the bench at fullback in seasons past won't necessarily translate to him being a great starting first-five.</p></blockquote>
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We agree on Ngatai, on SBW I don't think I can think of any other test 12 that I would rather have. -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="gollum" data-cid="590283" data-time="1466506546">
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<p>NMS, Dagg, Savea, Naholo & maybe Dmac are all genuine test quality in terms of what the AB's want from back 3.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>In contrast only SBW is out & out AB quality in the centres. Crotty is solid but will never be a 9/10 player. Ngatai might be, but at the moment he's just a guy that looks good in a Super team. And the others are smashers not thinkers - Fekitoa & Tamanivalu - and Fekitoa looks increasingly bad. So there's "in theory" depth in the centres, but its the same way we had depth in 1998 with Gibson, Mayerfhofler, Clarke & Berryman. And we have a bad track record playing 2 big physical centres.</p>
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<p>I don't really want Ben Smith anywhere bar 15, but I can see we can play a AB quality back 3 without Smith, I look in the centres & I'm sort of betting the house on Ngatai converting his Super class to AB level & partnering SBW. - ie a guy who barely ever sticks around & a guy who hasn't actually done dick. So I think the selectors will revisit Smith in 13 - even just 30 minutes, at some stage. Hopefully just in backup to the new Smith & Nonu that Ngatai & SBW will be right thru to the next WC...</p>
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<p>Naholo has this forum split 50/50, Savea is not looking himself, Dmac has never played for the ABs, so that leaves an injured guy, Dagg & Smith.</p>
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<p>None of Fekitoa, Crotty or Tamanivalu has set the world on fire so far, but they haven't disgraced the jumper either - all of had a hand in setting up some tries, and most of the leaky defence has been out wide, not through the middle. Moala has been playing well, and has AB experience, so combine that with the untested Ngatai and the seaseoned Sonny Bill ... I cannot see any reason to look to move one of the worlds best outside backs into the centres.</p>