Foster, Robertson etc
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@Steve you’re right. We don’t have a good leader ship. We might have a leadership group but not based on their play on the park. The only leaders out there, from a playing perspective, in the pack are Ardie and ST and Cane to a lesser degree. Whitelock is great in the line outs but old around the park. SB might be close but I don’t remember his contribution last game. Maybe they need to invest in the future but Foster is adverse to change which part of his problem.
In the backs, if the goal was to get away from the healter skelter, Aaron Smith is not the guy. So he has a great pass. We need a halfback to play test footie and direct that that forward pack around the field. I can understand why he was pulled.
Aaron Smith absolutely is the guy, and yes, it's because he has a great pass. I atruggle to imagine how much worse our 10s would look under more pressure with inaccurate slow passing and less time, and having to worry about catching the ball before they have time to think about what they're doing.
Although you could argue that they're not going to think about it no matter how much time they have I guess. -
@reprobate Not disputing his ability to pass just questioning the way he’s directing the forward pack.
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@Machpants Exactly. He’s really good when we have front foot ball and space but there’s no space and we haven’t earned the right to go wide. Maybe he can change his game and try to run around the rucks a little bit more, little kicks over the top etc to change things up. The opposition knows he is going to pass.
Addition if the others outside him I’m going to get out the game plan then as the first distributor he can change that right?
I hate to say it but a Marshall type player maybe the type of player we need right now.
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@Billy-Tell said in Foster:
the totally unsubstantiated rumours about Razor and Ryan falling out should be let go until there is actual confirmation.
You are not going to get confirmation as its in house.
100% correct from the Horses mouth.Poll for which one is the horse?
Pretty easy to figure out .
Life’s too short for that sort of fluff.
Just think it’s not to hard or is it.
I believe I understand who you're fingering.
Enough said I don't want to piss off the person who told me.
It will all come out somewhere along the way. -
@Machpants Exactly. He’s really good when we have front foot ball and space but there’s no space and we haven’t earned the right to go wide. Maybe he can change his game and try to run around the rucks a little bit more, little kicks over the top etc to change things up. The opposition knows he is going to pass.
Addition if the others outside him I’m going to get out the game plan then as the first distributor he can change that right?
I hate to say it but a Marshall type player maybe the type of player we need right now.
You want more stupid little kicks to give the ball away?
It's not a halfback's job to earn the right to go wide, that's the game plan, and the forwards. You want to fix that problem you drop the coach amd/or some forwards, not the halfback.
Unfortunately in our case we've sbeen hit up front and we've dropped some assistant coaches and a right winger who was one of the few guys playing well. Dropping Smith would be just as silly as that. -
@His-Bobness said in Foster:
Excellent analysis in the Roar by ‘Highlander’ on Foster’s incomprehensible single-minded devotion to helter-skelter play that pays little heed to what the opposition will bring to the game. We have seen this so many times now, it raises questions about the man’s intelligence:
“The Foster iteration of the All Blacks has no identity, and even when they show periods of high-quality international rugby, it is not maintained and this reversion to helter-skelter nonsense just repeats ad nauseam from a side that simply does not have the skillset to play the way the way they are pursuing. For mine, this ill-directed game plan has an inbuilt negative multiplier of poor selection, both in personnel and positions.”
I don't think we or any country has ever had a side with the skillset to play the Helter skelter rugby Foster and later years Hansen seem to want. Even our GOAT team of 2015 did the hard yards to get wins done when things didn't go our way without trying to spin it wide at every opportunity. That we've had any success at all playing that way is a testament to the talent we have at our disposal, but it's braindead rugby.
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@reprobate said in Foster:
@Machpants Exactly. He’s really good when we have front foot ball and space but there’s no space and we haven’t earned the right to go wide. Maybe he can change his game and try to run around the rucks a little bit more, little kicks over the top etc to change things up. The opposition knows he is going to pass.
Addition if the others outside him I’m going to get out the game plan then as the first distributor he can change that right?
I hate to say it but a Marshall type player maybe the type of player we need right now.
You want more stupid little kicks to give the ball away?
It's not a halfback's job to earn the right to go wide, that's the game plan, and the forwards. You want to fix that problem you drop the coach amd/or some forwards, not the halfback.
Unfortunately in our case we've sbeen hit up front and we've dropped some assistant coaches and a right winger who was one of the few guys playing well. Dropping Smith would be just as silly as that.Of course not. I just want variation from him or stick to the structure. To be fair he seemed to stick to the game plan in the first half but I think it was yanked when he went away from the game plan in the second half. Not helped by the worthless decision to sub ST who is the best forward on the park. I just think he’s too predictable and have been saying that for a couple years. But he’s the ferns sacred cow.
And of course it’s not all on him. We got ourselves into positions where we isolated and moved away from those pod structures that worked in the first half. Hence the penalties.
I agree with dropping coaches. I would have never picked this fool.
I agree the forwards have to earn the right to go wide but he is at the back of the pack and makes those decisions based on his read of the game.
I’d rather have Clark than Reese. Reese is also good with a bit of space but often times when he’s tiptoeing against the grain is ineffective. Maybe swap him out for Jordan or JB?
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@Machpants said in Foster:
@reprobate Not disputing his ability to pass just questioning the way he’s directing the forward pack.
And the fact he doesn't run, he is a one trick pony, he's the Pocock of nines ATM
He ran in Bokke 2. You don't have to run often, once or twice to keep defences thinking it's a possibility.
Also, we didn't hear 'one trick pony' after Ireland 1.
You know what you get with AS, he's got teh best pass in the game, but if he's not running it's on the coaches eventually.
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@Machpants said in Foster:
@reprobate Not disputing his ability to pass just questioning the way he’s directing the forward pack.
And the fact he doesn't run, he is a one trick pony, he's the Pocock of nines ATM
He ran in Bokke 2. You don't have to run often, once or twice to keep defences thinking it's a possibility.
Also, we didn't hear 'one trick pony' after Ireland 1.
You know what you get with AS, he's got teh best pass in the game, but if he's not running it's on the coaches eventually.
You can only run at halfback when you get quick ball with the defence on the backfoot. If he's not getting either of those it is a crazy expectation.
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@Machpants said in Foster:
@reprobate Not disputing his ability to pass just questioning the way he’s directing the forward pack.
And the fact he doesn't run, he is a one trick pony, he's the Pocock of nines ATM
He ran in Bokke 2. You don't have to run often, once or twice to keep defences thinking it's a possibility.
Also, we didn't hear 'one trick pony' after Ireland 1.
You know what you get with AS, he's got teh best pass in the game, but if he's not running it's on the coaches eventually.
You can only run at halfback when you get quick ball with the defence on the backfoot. If he's not getting either of those it is a crazy expectation.
I disagree, cos it was not like every ruck for the entire game was under pressure. We were often on the front foot until the second half. The tactic was to pass or smith doesn't have the vision/confidence to run anymore. There were opportunities there, he never took them.
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@reprobate said in Foster:
It's hard to achieve too many 50/22s when your tactic is shitty chip kicks and bombs in your own half.
You're also assuming that the ABs will win the lineout from the 50/22 kick. Both Coles and Taylor have imploded with late lineout throws in recent tests.
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@reprobate said in Foster:
It's hard to achieve too many 50/22s when your tactic is shitty chip kicks and bombs in your own half.
You're also assuming that the ABs will win the lineout from the 50/22 kick. Both Coles and Taylor have imploded with late lineout throws in recent tests.
I was out so didn't watch the game. Were the lineout woes all on the hookers or was it a collective failure of the unit?
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@reprobate said in Foster:
It's hard to achieve too many 50/22s when your tactic is shitty chip kicks and bombs in your own half.
You're also assuming that the ABs will win the lineout from the 50/22 kick. Both Coles and Taylor have imploded with late lineout throws in recent tests.
I was out so didn't watch the game. Were the lineout woes all on the one hooker or was it a collective failure of the unit?
FIFY and yes.
Taylor was shite.
Maybe, just maybe, some blame can go to Whitelock on the last lineout as he looked to panic and rush Taylor's throw -
Hope not. But the issue clearly is not just a poor head coach. But obviously appointing a limited super rugby coach doesn't help. And then letting this same coach select a new coaching team is beyond silly. I still have doubts about Joe based on what happened in Ireland. And now after just one test where he is fully on board
So maybe Robertson is only a partial answer. Long term more is needed like replacing Robinson. And a new structure to attract better candidates to the NZR Board
And it is a decline: everything about the All Blacks’ performance on Saturday screamed decline: you don’t get to that point unless a number of things have gone wrong. Here are some of the symptoms and/or causes of the Australian decline: do they sound familiar? A lack of alignment between the governing body and the test team; an over-sensitivity to criticism; a lack of effective relationships between the national side and the Super Rugby clubs; the atrophying of professional players’ skill levels; the development of saviour syndrome amongst fans (if only coach A/player A were involved it would be just fine); player power; a complete disconnection between the rich professional game and the grassroots; clear evidence of people within the rugby system working in silos; an inability to work out what to do with the ‘third tier’ of rugby (NPC); the loss of coaches overseas; a misguided belief that what worked previously will work again; blaming external factors (the refs, the rules); and performance inconsistency. To that list, New Zealand has its own unique issues, such as a relatively stagnant professional competition that is won by only one team (the Crusaders) and the unhealthy pooling of playing resources in the top two teams. -
@canefan Also, there was a Crusaders tight 5 in the 2nd half so Taylor was throwing to familiar targets in Whitelock and Barrett, and some lifters. Whitelock called the throw to Ioane at the front that was contested, but the not straights are on the hooker.
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@His-Bobness said in Foster:
Excellent analysis in the Roar by ‘Highlander’ on Foster’s incomprehensible single-minded devotion to helter-skelter play that pays little heed to what the opposition will bring to the game. We have seen this so many times now, it raises questions about the man’s intelligence:
“The Foster iteration of the All Blacks has no identity, and even when they show periods of high-quality international rugby, it is not maintained and this reversion to helter-skelter nonsense just repeats ad nauseam from a side that simply does not have the skillset to play the way the way they are pursuing. For mine, this ill-directed game plan has an inbuilt negative multiplier of poor selection, both in personnel and positions.”
And a thought provoking quote in the comments -
"Was it just me [too many red wines] thinking that the AB backline was standing noticeably flatter this week than they were at Ellis Park. If I am right this must have been a coaching instruction from our new attack coach. During Schmidt’s time with Ireland it was a feature of their game that the backline had a very flat alignment. I thought the great strength of the ABs at Ellis Park was the extra depth of the backline enabling Mounga and Havili time to play to their strengths. I wonder if Schmidt is going to be the game changer for the ABs so many posters on here thought he would be. So far [and I know there has only been one game] the prospects don’t look promising. At the end of his time with Ireland they were being beaten by teams like Japan and the comment was being made that their game plan was very predictable. Some of the players subsequently made the point that Schmidt was extremely stubborn and refused to change. Sound familiar. Perhaps he and Foster were made for each other. It certainly looked so on Saturday night."
Yep noticed that flat alignment and wondered why the change from what we achieved at Ellis Park.
It certainly made a significant difference in a negative way standing really flat.Especially when the Argies were deploying a similar rush defence as the Boks. We certainly weren’t getting the returns for what the flat alignment provides with the defence the Argies were playing.
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@ACT-Crusader said in Foster:
@His-Bobness said in Foster:
Excellent analysis in the Roar by ‘Highlander’ on Foster’s incomprehensible single-minded devotion to helter-skelter play that pays little heed to what the opposition will bring to the game. We have seen this so many times now, it raises questions about the man’s intelligence:
“The Foster iteration of the All Blacks has no identity, and even when they show periods of high-quality international rugby, it is not maintained and this reversion to helter-skelter nonsense just repeats ad nauseam from a side that simply does not have the skillset to play the way the way they are pursuing. For mine, this ill-directed game plan has an inbuilt negative multiplier of poor selection, both in personnel and positions.”
And a thought provoking quote in the comments -
"Was it just me [too many red wines] thinking that the AB backline was standing noticeably flatter this week than they were at Ellis Park. If I am right this must have been a coaching instruction from our new attack coach. During Schmidt’s time with Ireland it was a feature of their game that the backline had a very flat alignment. I thought the great strength of the ABs at Ellis Park was the extra depth of the backline enabling Mounga and Havili time to play to their strengths. I wonder if Schmidt is going to be the game changer for the ABs so many posters on here thought he would be. So far [and I know there has only been one game] the prospects don’t look promising. At the end of his time with Ireland they were being beaten by teams like Japan and the comment was being made that their game plan was very predictable. Some of the players subsequently made the point that Schmidt was extremely stubborn and refused to change. Sound familiar. Perhaps he and Foster were made for each other. It certainly looked so on Saturday night."
Yep noticed that flat alignment and wondered why the change from what we achieved at Ellis Park.
It certainly made a significant difference in a negative way standing really flat.Especially when the Argies were deploying a similar rush defence as the Boks. We certainly weren’t getting the returns for what the flat alignment provides with the defence the Argies were playing.
I don’t understand with Schmidt taking over the attack for the Argies test why we reverted back to that
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@ACT-Crusader said in Foster:
@His-Bobness said in Foster:
Excellent analysis in the Roar by ‘Highlander’ on Foster’s incomprehensible single-minded devotion to helter-skelter play that pays little heed to what the opposition will bring to the game. We have seen this so many times now, it raises questions about the man’s intelligence:
“The Foster iteration of the All Blacks has no identity, and even when they show periods of high-quality international rugby, it is not maintained and this reversion to helter-skelter nonsense just repeats ad nauseam from a side that simply does not have the skillset to play the way the way they are pursuing. For mine, this ill-directed game plan has an inbuilt negative multiplier of poor selection, both in personnel and positions.”
And a thought provoking quote in the comments -
"Was it just me [too many red wines] thinking that the AB backline was standing noticeably flatter this week than they were at Ellis Park. If I am right this must have been a coaching instruction from our new attack coach. During Schmidt’s time with Ireland it was a feature of their game that the backline had a very flat alignment. I thought the great strength of the ABs at Ellis Park was the extra depth of the backline enabling Mounga and Havili time to play to their strengths. I wonder if Schmidt is going to be the game changer for the ABs so many posters on here thought he would be. So far [and I know there has only been one game] the prospects don’t look promising. At the end of his time with Ireland they were being beaten by teams like Japan and the comment was being made that their game plan was very predictable. Some of the players subsequently made the point that Schmidt was extremely stubborn and refused to change. Sound familiar. Perhaps he and Foster were made for each other. It certainly looked so on Saturday night."
Yep noticed that flat alignment and wondered why the change from what we achieved at Ellis Park.
It certainly made a significant difference in a negative way standing really flat.Especially when the Argies were deploying a similar rush defence as the Boks. We certainly weren’t getting the returns for what the flat alignment provides with the defence the Argies were playing.
I don’t understand with Schmidt taking over the attack for the Argies test why we reverted back to that
Keeping the powder dry
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@Winger Ive read comments from Irish supporters and I guess the feeling is a bit mixed when it comes to Joe , overall they are happy with some of the success he brought but there is still some negative stuff to go with that ,
Basically it goes along the line of- he was great for a while , then we got worked out and everyone knew what was coming , he didnt seem to have an answer and just kept recycling the same stuff
