Springboks v All Blacks I
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@SidBarret said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@pakman i have a long memory, so i remember the 2010 series. ( id love to go into it)
Yeah we got lucky, but.... somebody should be removing Marx from there, and also the turnover that won you the game 2018 from Savea was even worse.
Teams take chances with penalties (we got lucky on that one), but if half your pack is 15m away lining up for the next carry?
Our breakdown ball protection is rubbish at the moment and has been since 2019
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@SidBarret said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@pakman i have a long memory, so i remember the 2010 series. ( id love to go into it)
Yeah we got lucky, but.... somebody should be removing Marx from there, and also the turnover that won you the game 2018 from Savea was even worse.
Teams take chances with penalties (we got lucky on that one), but if half your pack is 15m away lining up for the next carry?
Marx did a number of other jackals which were more legal. That one was heinous. Real wake up call for ABs.
It will be interesting to see how carefully he's refereed on Saturday.
But what I'd like to see is less points from marginal/technical penalties, e.g. De Allende and more from genuine endeavour.
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All of these are examples of awesome work by the boks, if the ref doesn't penalise in this sort of thing, then there is no foul. Intelligent, accurate play, fucking great rugby. They pushed the limits, and got the reward. ABs have been pathetic at the micro game, the ref game, and the accuracy game for ages.
Note I don't include jordie being taken out as good play, and that's bad refereeing, as is forward passes missed etc. But clever play liked that shown, or manipulating your opposite in the scrum is what the game is about at Pro level.
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@pakman heinous is a bit harsh🙂
But that was big difference between how the teams defend. Watching the game a second time there was huge difference in how the teams defend. The boks were trying to stop attacks, while the All Blacks were defending to make the stats.
Pstd was naughty for keeping his hand on the ball, but slowing the ball (legally) was clearly a target for the boks, while the All Blacks were a bit high school about the contact situations
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@OomPB said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@Frye he played 41 matches for SA 7s, 31 matches for the Bulls, before that in 2015-2017 CC for WP u19, Boland u20 & WP u21.
Don't think he head butt or eye couch someone.
AB supporters believe that this behaviour is trained into our wingers, which comforts them in these times of darkness. So in their eyes, it is equivalent to a headbutt
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@SidBarret said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@pakman heinous is a bit harsh🙂
But that was big difference between how the teams defend. Watching the game a second time there was huge difference in how the teams defend. The boks were trying to stop attacks, while the All Blacks were defending to make the stats.
Pstd was naughty for keeping his hand on the ball, but slowing the ball (legally) was clearly a target for the boks, while the All Blacks were a bit high school about the contact situations
Frans’s clean out of Cane showed a different level of intensity.
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On another matter, Ireland did it, Bokke did it.
Injury breaks when they get tired from multi phases. Is it time to just drag the 'injured' player off and let play continue.
Seeing an ice pack on the knee for a minute then the player cured is getting beyond a joke.
I think obvious cases, Faf, Bodie and the five year old an exception of course!
Something needs to be done with deliberate slowing play at any rate!
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@BartMan said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
Something needs to be done with deliberate slowing play at any rate!
I agree.
But I'm on the ABs on this one - if our game relies on the ref cooperating to speed up games, and this doesn't ever seem to happen, who's at fault? FOSTER of course,
but seriously, the coaching naivety seems to be carried onto the field by the players. @SidBarret said - looks more lik the ABs are playing for stats than effect.
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@pakman that’s the beauty of the game, isn’t it? Getting away with as much as you can before the ref steps in. If they don’t blow the whistle then push the envelope a bit more. I saw that block at the time. I love how the SA pundits are mentioning it too. Can imagine the Boks are wishing they’d shut up about it! The refs will watch the game back and might have some ideas like the second game against Ireland with the ABs cleaning.
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@game_film but will they?
The Irish were doing it, especially at times when the ABs were trying to, or needed to keep the speed of the game up, yet nothing was really done about it.
There needs to be a tweak to the rules, otherwise it is too easy to exploit.
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@pakman said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
If ref's think that's alright, then we need to copy accordingly!
Gardner is a ref that lets a lot of things go. The breakdowns in particular tend to be a free for all.
I have no idea why some people rate him highly. He has a good demeanour with the players but that's it
Players should always be at their most cynical when he's in control. This AB side doesn't adjust well to variables like that
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@nzzp said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@BartMan said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
Something needs to be done with deliberate slowing play at any rate!
I agree.
But I'm on the ABs on this one - if our game relies on the ref cooperating to speed up games, and this doesn't ever seem to happen, who's at fault? FOSTER of course,
but seriously, the coaching naivety seems to be carried onto the field by the players. @SidBarret said - looks more lik the ABs are playing for stats than effect.
I am blaming Foster cos the games ARE NOT fast. As much as we would like them to be, they are not. Haven't been for ages at Intl level. So basing your gameplan around 2015 run the fuckers off their feet with our awesomeness is dumb. Teams have nullified that and a coach with half a brain would realise we need to move on. Sure, at management level, coaching metting etc, push for that. But it is not happening so come an play with a plan for the really real world. We don't, cos Foster is a really nice guy, cuddly, and a dreamer. We need a nasty realpolitik leader. Razor, despite all his breakdancing and surfin, knows when to leave the ideals behind and fucking mucle it up - play the ref - win however way possible. You can see it in how the saders play, more like the teams that are smacking the ABs arse
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@Machpants I imagine if the ABs start milking time as other teams do, WR will make a rule change quick smart!
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@taniwharugby said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@Machpants I imagine if the ABs start milking time as other teams do, WR will make a rule change quick smart!
But we don't want to. We get zero advantage from it. Certain teams do and they are playing it to the max with the support of WR NH administrators as they can combat these SH fluffybunnies that want to play a fast game.
One for the other thread but partly why I have zero support for the NH take of SH not caring about player safety. Every chance to swing the game in favour of size and collision they have taken with open arms.
The two biggest things we need to get in the refs ear about are 'not releasing' before the jackler puts hands on (or say they want reciprocity) and jumpers without genuine chance of a catch. It's not sour grapes as we were outplayed everywhere but those to things helped SA no end to apply their dominance elsewhere.
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@taniwharugby I think it’s one of those things when there’s 10 things going on at the breakdown and it’s a matter of what is their focus that day. Figure out what the ref is/isn’t doing and then play to that.
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@Crucial said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
But we don't want to. We get zero advantage from it. Certain teams do and they are playing it to the max with the support of WR NH administrators as they can combat these SH fluffybunnies that want to play a fast game.
that may be so, but we are giving other teams an advantage by not doing so and utilising whatever leniency the ref is affording our opposition.
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@taniwharugby said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@Crucial said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
But we don't want to. We get zero advantage from it. Certain teams do and they are playing it to the max with the support of WR NH administrators as they can combat these SH fluffybunnies that want to play a fast game.
that may be so, but we are giving other teams an advantage by not doing so and utilising whatever leniency the ref is affording our opposition.
How does our doing it take away their advantage? It would add to it as they would get even more breathers.
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@Crucial well if we had the resources we could pick different players to suit a slower game, but the fact we are doing nothing, is part of the problem (not just to this)
We have no adaptability, no ref management, no game management, this all sits with the coaching, captain and leadership group
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@taniwharugby said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@Crucial well if we had the resources we could pick different players to suit a slower game, but the fact we are doing nothing, is part of the problem (not just to this)
We have no adaptability, no ref management, no game management, this all sits with the coaching, captain and leadership group
I'll ignore second part but for the first point we would have to make a generation change of player types and playing style (just as the NH did) to 'find' a load of huge power players. It's not how we play school/club/NPC or Super.
It's not a thing that can change quickly and I don't think we really want to.
We have to find ways to beat these teams within our 'DNA' just as they did to us.
I get that we haven't done a good job of finding that solution but we also don't want to fall into the trap SA themselves did a few years back of trying to change their style to a like meets like one.
What we need is an emphasis on making their styles work to our advantage. Better ways and coaching around manipulating the rush defence. Better ways to suck charging rhinos into going off their feet and being penalised. Better tactical kicking and chasing. -
@Crucial It appears to me we need to keep the ball in play for longer periods which is easier said than done when you are going backwards and giving up the ball to Marx. You need very good structure and go forward to hold onto the pill for long periods. We did try a few times to recycle but one off runners got pounded and we went backwards. We need a coach that can emphasise our strengths which Foster clearly cannot do.
