Springboks v All Blacks I
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@stodders i agree that’s the case on the #1 but the others aren’t so much pulling players around. Willemse has numbers on the overlap but kicks instead. The last one is going to run into a wall so just boots it over. DDA has just broken through then gives the ball back, effectively.
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@NTA said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@nzzp said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@NTA said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
None of my posts should be taken in any other context than "The Boks are a very good side with a fairly solid history together, so any loss against them should be part of the accounting".
Marx is a fucking weapon.
He is. But christ, just settling in to watch a replay and the first of a number of turnovers look as dodgy as shit. Leaning on players to get hands on the ball, and AG just looks at it and thinks 'fair enough'.
I also thought a couple of them failed to show "strong body position" and "lifting the ball" which is what the refs are after.
Check out 5.48 in this:
Not only does Am shoulder check Bower so he misses Marx on clean, but Marx has one hand between Angus T's legs. He couldn't lift ball without lifting entire weight of Angus, who isn't really holding on!
So many penalties available, AG didn't know where to look.
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@SidBarret said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@pakman omg im sorry for you, watching the All Blacks must have been terrible for you, you must have hated every second of every game that the good all Blacks have played for the last thirty years
Ha! We all know that the ABs have not traditionally been angels. But I think they've been slightly brow beaten into going back too far the other side of the line. That TMO job on us in Ireland2 still riles.
Just keen to open eyes on the systematic approach Boks have been pursuing very efficiently.
If ref's think that's alright, then we need to copy accordingly!
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@SidBarret said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@pakman omg im sorry for you, watching the All Blacks must have been terrible for you, you must have hated every second of every game that the good all Blacks have played for the last thirty years
Dark arts have always been part of the game. Both the ABs and Boks have been adept at this over the years. But right now we are either not smart enough to get away with stuff, or the refs are watching us more. I'd say most likely option 1 although some evidence suggests option 2, as with the RC/YCs in the Ireland series
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@pakman fair enough, but my god, the point that you were making is truly ridiculous.
Yeah in a perfect world id prefer the am check not to exist, but a) that world doesnt exist, b) weve been told to deal with it for so long. Had Conrad done that to Mtawarira I'm pretty sure Mtawarira would get more criticism than Smith.
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@SidBarret said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@pakman fair enough, but my god, the point that you were making is truly ridiculous.
Yeah in a perfect world id prefer the am check not to exist, but a) that world doesnt exist, b) weve been told to deal with it for so long. Had Conrad done that to Mtawarira I'm pretty sure Mtawarira would get more criticism than Smith.
Agreed, the check was nothing really. It was the PSDT hold which ought to have been penalised. Nothing clever in that.
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@pakman i have a long memory, so i remember the 2010 series. ( id love to go into it)
Yeah we got lucky, but.... somebody should be removing Marx from there, and also the turnover that won you the game 2018 from Savea was even worse.
Teams take chances with penalties (we got lucky on that one), but if half your pack is 15m away lining up for the next carry?
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@SidBarret said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@pakman i have a long memory, so i remember the 2010 series. ( id love to go into it)
Yeah we got lucky, but.... somebody should be removing Marx from there, and also the turnover that won you the game 2018 from Savea was even worse.
Teams take chances with penalties (we got lucky on that one), but if half your pack is 15m away lining up for the next carry?
Our breakdown ball protection is rubbish at the moment and has been since 2019
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@SidBarret said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@pakman i have a long memory, so i remember the 2010 series. ( id love to go into it)
Yeah we got lucky, but.... somebody should be removing Marx from there, and also the turnover that won you the game 2018 from Savea was even worse.
Teams take chances with penalties (we got lucky on that one), but if half your pack is 15m away lining up for the next carry?
Marx did a number of other jackals which were more legal. That one was heinous. Real wake up call for ABs.
It will be interesting to see how carefully he's refereed on Saturday.
But what I'd like to see is less points from marginal/technical penalties, e.g. De Allende and more from genuine endeavour.
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All of these are examples of awesome work by the boks, if the ref doesn't penalise in this sort of thing, then there is no foul. Intelligent, accurate play, fucking great rugby. They pushed the limits, and got the reward. ABs have been pathetic at the micro game, the ref game, and the accuracy game for ages.
Note I don't include jordie being taken out as good play, and that's bad refereeing, as is forward passes missed etc. But clever play liked that shown, or manipulating your opposite in the scrum is what the game is about at Pro level.
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@pakman heinous is a bit harsh🙂
But that was big difference between how the teams defend. Watching the game a second time there was huge difference in how the teams defend. The boks were trying to stop attacks, while the All Blacks were defending to make the stats.
Pstd was naughty for keeping his hand on the ball, but slowing the ball (legally) was clearly a target for the boks, while the All Blacks were a bit high school about the contact situations
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@OomPB said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@Frye he played 41 matches for SA 7s, 31 matches for the Bulls, before that in 2015-2017 CC for WP u19, Boland u20 & WP u21.
Don't think he head butt or eye couch someone.
AB supporters believe that this behaviour is trained into our wingers, which comforts them in these times of darkness. So in their eyes, it is equivalent to a headbutt
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@SidBarret said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@pakman heinous is a bit harsh🙂
But that was big difference between how the teams defend. Watching the game a second time there was huge difference in how the teams defend. The boks were trying to stop attacks, while the All Blacks were defending to make the stats.
Pstd was naughty for keeping his hand on the ball, but slowing the ball (legally) was clearly a target for the boks, while the All Blacks were a bit high school about the contact situations
Frans’s clean out of Cane showed a different level of intensity.
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On another matter, Ireland did it, Bokke did it.
Injury breaks when they get tired from multi phases. Is it time to just drag the 'injured' player off and let play continue.
Seeing an ice pack on the knee for a minute then the player cured is getting beyond a joke.
I think obvious cases, Faf, Bodie and the five year old an exception of course!
Something needs to be done with deliberate slowing play at any rate!
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@BartMan said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
Something needs to be done with deliberate slowing play at any rate!
I agree.
But I'm on the ABs on this one - if our game relies on the ref cooperating to speed up games, and this doesn't ever seem to happen, who's at fault? FOSTER of course,
but seriously, the coaching naivety seems to be carried onto the field by the players. @SidBarret said - looks more lik the ABs are playing for stats than effect.
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@pakman that’s the beauty of the game, isn’t it? Getting away with as much as you can before the ref steps in. If they don’t blow the whistle then push the envelope a bit more. I saw that block at the time. I love how the SA pundits are mentioning it too. Can imagine the Boks are wishing they’d shut up about it! The refs will watch the game back and might have some ideas like the second game against Ireland with the ABs cleaning.
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@game_film but will they?
The Irish were doing it, especially at times when the ABs were trying to, or needed to keep the speed of the game up, yet nothing was really done about it.
There needs to be a tweak to the rules, otherwise it is too easy to exploit.
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@pakman said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
If ref's think that's alright, then we need to copy accordingly!
Gardner is a ref that lets a lot of things go. The breakdowns in particular tend to be a free for all.
I have no idea why some people rate him highly. He has a good demeanour with the players but that's it
Players should always be at their most cynical when he's in control. This AB side doesn't adjust well to variables like that
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@nzzp said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@BartMan said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
Something needs to be done with deliberate slowing play at any rate!
I agree.
But I'm on the ABs on this one - if our game relies on the ref cooperating to speed up games, and this doesn't ever seem to happen, who's at fault? FOSTER of course,
but seriously, the coaching naivety seems to be carried onto the field by the players. @SidBarret said - looks more lik the ABs are playing for stats than effect.
I am blaming Foster cos the games ARE NOT fast. As much as we would like them to be, they are not. Haven't been for ages at Intl level. So basing your gameplan around 2015 run the fuckers off their feet with our awesomeness is dumb. Teams have nullified that and a coach with half a brain would realise we need to move on. Sure, at management level, coaching metting etc, push for that. But it is not happening so come an play with a plan for the really real world. We don't, cos Foster is a really nice guy, cuddly, and a dreamer. We need a nasty realpolitik leader. Razor, despite all his breakdancing and surfin, knows when to leave the ideals behind and fucking mucle it up - play the ref - win however way possible. You can see it in how the saders play, more like the teams that are smacking the ABs arse
