All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test
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@Bones said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Frank said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
I'd like to hear from Foster's most ardent defenders (Crucial you're so quiet mate) as to why he should stay on or what the Fern is missing?
Foster doesn't have defenders. There's just people that don't bitch and moan about the same old shit time and again and actually try and come up with something coherent.
Foster does have defenders. The NZRU for one. The media aren't laying into him half as much as they should be. It is still "The All Blacks need to do this ..." and "the All Blacks need to do that ..." rather than pointing the finger solidly at him.
I try to keep my rants about him to less than one a month, but how is the position that he is the real problem, and should go, not "coherent"?
I said it about him when he was Chiefs coach. I said it about Blackadder after a couple of years with the Crusaders too. At a certain point it becomes clear that a good team is being held back. After that point no amount of analysis helps.
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@Chester-Draws said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Bones said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Frank said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
I'd like to hear from Foster's most ardent defenders (Crucial you're so quiet mate) as to why he should stay on or what the Fern is missing?
Foster doesn't have defenders. There's just people that don't bitch and moan about the same old shit time and again and actually try and come up with something coherent.
Foster does have defenders. The NZRU for one. The media aren't laying into him half as much as they should be. It is still "The All Blacks need to do this ..." and "the All Blacks need to do that ..." rather than pointing the finger solidly at him.
I try to keep my rants about him to less than one a month, but how is the position that he is the real problem, and should go, not "coherent"?
I said it about him when he was Chiefs coach. I said it about Blackadder after a couple of years with the Crusaders too. At a certain point it becomes clear that a good team is being held back. After that point no amount of analysis helps.
It was pretty jarring going from that game to the Aus v Eng game. You could clearly see what both sides were trying to do, both looked like better coached sides than us.
Doesn't mean I think Eng or Oz are better than us, just that the players all seemed in sync and looked organised. We seemed to be all over the place and relying on individual brilliance.
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@Dan54 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
I really not arrogant enough to think I could even coach a test team, hell I found coaching schoolboy and senior club rugby hard enough, so pretty hard to yell to loud about how much better I am than any high level coached whether it provincial, super or test level.
Fair enough. I know that I am a pretty shit coach too.
But I recognised was out of my depth, so I let better people do it. (And I never blamed the players for my weaknesses.)
I don't expect Foster to be a great coach. I do expect him to recognise that he isn't.
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
I really not arrogant enough to think I could even coach a test team, hell I found coaching schoolboy and senior club rugby hard enough, so pretty hard to yell to loud about how much better I am than any high level coached whether it provincial, super or test level.
Criticising a coaching staff does not = saying that you could coach better than them.
Same as criticising a player does equate to saying you could play better than them.
If it did the fern wouldn’t exist. I don’t think too many of us are former ABs.
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it was very clear from last week, and this week, that the plan is to play nothing in our half. if we start a set of phases in our own territory, kick it.
But it was like we stopped the planning after that. The how seemed to get forgotten about, so the kicks looked haphazard, and the chase like they didn't know where it was going.
Last week it sorta worked, but Ireland fielded them better this week, and then returned the kicks better, so we started losing ground (throw in a lineout fucked at selection time).
Then, when it was apparent this tactic wasn't working, and the scoreboard became an issue, we started trying to play a bit. But that's when it got ugly. It looked honestly like the players had nothing to fall back on. We just didn't seem to know how we were going to play. Seriously disjointed, off-the-cuff play right from the beginning of every set of phases. It was not pretty.
Again though, huge credit to the irish who took on board what they did well the week before, but also addressed what they did poorly. That was a significant turn around in performance, and points to a squad unified in their vision.
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@MN5 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
I really not arrogant enough to think I could even coach a test team, hell I found coaching schoolboy and senior club rugby hard enough, so pretty hard to yell to loud about how much better I am than any high level coached whether it provincial, super or test level.
Criticising a coaching staff does not = saying that you could coach better than them.
Same as criticising a player does equate to saying you could play better than them.
If it did the fern wouldn’t exist. I don’t think too many of us are former ABs.
i am 100% a better rugby player than all of the current AB's...more than happy to say it....proving it is where i have an issue
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@Chester-Draws said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
I really not arrogant enough to think I could even coach a test team, hell I found coaching schoolboy and senior club rugby hard enough, so pretty hard to yell to loud about how much better I am than any high level coached whether it provincial, super or test level.
Fair enough. I know that I am a pretty shit coach too.
But I recognised was out of my depth, so I let better people do it. (And I never blamed the players for my weaknesses.)
I don't expect Foster to be a great coach. I do expect him to recognise that he isn't.
A simple analogy would be you don't have to be a chef to know a meal tastes bad.
It's a weak argument to make that we wouldn't do any better, the bar needs to be slightly higher than that!
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Re the early tackle and whether it should have been a yellow and a penalty try - the fact that the ball wasn't actually passed to the Irishman who was tackled, does that play a part in the decision making? In the circumstances on the weekend I think it should. On my one viewing it didn't even look like the ball carrier was about to pass to the supporting player.
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@Crazy-Horse isnt the rule supposed to be made whereby you are essentially removing the offending player from the equation, and then determine if a try probably would have been scored.
I personally think YC & PT (would also have avoided the RC, sliding doors and all)
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Crazy-Horse isnt the rule supposed to be made whereby you are essentially removing the offending player from the equation, and then determine if a try probably would have been scored.
I personally think YC & PT (would also have avoided the RC, sliding doors and all)
To me that would be fair enough if the pass was made to a supporting player who was no longer there, or the ball carrier was preparing to make the pass.
I am of the opinion that the double whammy of a penalty try and yellow card is too harsh for a lot of offences One or the other for me. I hate cards so I would probably settle for a penalty try only.
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@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
I am of the opinion that the double whammy of a penalty try and yellow card is too harsh for a lot of offences
ha, well that is another conversation for which I agree...
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@Crazy-Horse i think the argument is he may have seen his support was being tackled and not passed, in which case you cant "punish" ireland for playing to the whistle, you have to boil it down to first principles,
tackled without the ball ? yes.....if that tackler wasn't there is there a clear overlap and no cover? yes
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Chris-B you have to wonder if Fozzie is genuinely concerned with things, or if he is happy with how we are tracking, then add in NZR.
If we lose this weekend, the blow torch surely goes on full, and the other thing, if we lose again, playing poor rugby, will stadiums keep selling out, that will hit NZR, and also does brand damage when we play Aus and cant even sell a stadium out.
Is Wellington sold out yet?
I'm sure he's concerned, but he probably doesn't have the full set of tools to fix it. Someone pointed out that he's had a unique set of circumstances to deal with - with covid, etc (to which I'd add the advent of the crazy card game) - and that is true, but, I still think I've seen enough. The mediocrity in results correlates pretty strongly with what some of the Chiefs' supporters were warning about when he was appointed.
This coming weekend will be pretty interesting. Then we've got the retaining the Bledisloe hurdle, then the Jaapies at home hurdle and then EOYT.
Pretty sure the axe won't fall until after TRC and probably after the EOYT.
I'd actually bet against it falling at all, but really execution should only be stayed if NZR genuinely believe Fozzie is the best man for the job (or it's going to cost millions and millions to axe him).
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
Fozzie is the best man for the job
it's not just him. In modern football the assistants are just as big a piece of the puzzle. And right now i can't think of a single thing that is awesome. Set piece? no. Ruck work? no. Attack? no. Defense? no. Skills? no
I wouldn't keep any of them
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Chris-B you have to wonder if Fozzie is genuinely concerned with things, or if he is happy with how we are tracking, then add in NZR.
If we lose this weekend, the blow torch surely goes on full, and the other thing, if we lose again, playing poor rugby, will stadiums keep selling out, that will hit NZR, and also does brand damage when we play Aus and cant even sell a stadium out.
Is Wellington sold out yet?
I'm sure he's concerned, but he probably doesn't have the full set of tools to fix it. Someone pointed out that he's had a unique set of circumstances to deal with - with covid, etc (to which I'd add the advent of the crazy card game) - but, I think I've seen enough. The mediocrity in results correlates pretty strongly with what some of the Chiefs' supporters were warning about when he was appointed.
This coming weekend will be pretty interesting. Then we've got the retaining the Bledisloe hurdle, then the Jaapies at home hurdle and then EOYT.
Pretty sure the axe won't fall until after TRC and probably after the EOYT.
I'd actually bet against it falling at all, but really execution should only be stayed if NZR genuinely believe Fozzie is the best man for the job (or it's going to cost millions and millions to axe him).
its not though is it...all international coaches have similar situations...they just all seems to be handling it better
and hell, we're two and half years into COVID, the rest of us have all had learn to charge how we work...where the AB's seem completely caught off guard
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@Frank wonder if Razor would be happy to work with/under Schmidt? Schmidt is only there as a selector technical advisor presently isnt he?
Maybe he stays on lets Razor run the ship?
@Chris-B this year could get very, very ugly, but I'm not sure NZR have the balls to make a big call, and would Fozzie take himself out of the equation?
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
Fozzie is the best man for the job
it's not just him. In modern football the assistants are just as big a piece of the puzzle. And right now i can't think of a single thing that is awesome. Set piece? no. Ruck work? no. Attack? no. Defense? no. Skills? no
I wouldn't keep any of them
I don't think Foster attracts particularly good assistants TBH, there's probably a few guys biding their time until a decent head coach is appointed, so we are stuck with e.g. McLeod's passive defense for the 6th(?) year in a row.
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@mariner4life We fucked ourselves with a stupid selection process that meant all the potential assistants had to take sides before the Head Coach was appointed.
@Frank - plenty of chance, but I think it would be a dumb move.
Joe quit coaching because he was burned out and he will have used all his best ideas already with Ireland. Meanwhile we've got a younger guy jumping out of his skin for the job, who has made it pretty clear he's been preparing for the job for about the last five years.
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