AB Props
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@nostrildamus said in AB Props:
@nostrildamus said in AB Props:
**I don't think we lack for props, its more how those props are being used or played. It's funny how explosive hookers have become when they are very similar in size to many props. I just wonder why props don't seem to have the same ball carrying ability.
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Another question, which international props do you think are the best and why perhaps?I don’t think this was better exemplified than when Owen Franks and Dane Coles played alongside each other.
Franks had some pretty freaky stats in terms of what he could do with his Olympic weightlifting. So it’s an absolute mystery why it took little more than a blade of grass for him to hit the deck while carrying the ball.
Because Franks didn't have athletic balance. Static power, but not the flexibility and reflexes to shift impact from tacklers, he could only take impact rigidly and as soon as he was off balance he just hit the dirt and stayed there.
Which is why judo and wrestling are so good for rugby players...I think some top forwards and centres had either as background...(judo: McDowall, that French loosie Dusautoir; wrestling: Moody, Sammy Tuitupou, )..
Franks was never a big ball carrier even in his age grade days or starting out his pro career. What he did work on was having reliable hands, reducing his error rate. His real strengths were at set piece both in the scrum and lineout lifting. But for me the best part of his game was his clean out work. He knew how to shift bodies and for both the Saders and ABs, it meant we could retain possession and help provide a platform for others that knew how to use the ball in hand.
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@act-crusader said in AB Props:
@nostrildamus said in AB Props:
@nostrildamus said in AB Props:
**I don't think we lack for props, its more how those props are being used or played. It's funny how explosive hookers have become when they are very similar in size to many props. I just wonder why props don't seem to have the same ball carrying ability.
**
Another question, which international props do you think are the best and why perhaps?I don’t think this was better exemplified than when Owen Franks and Dane Coles played alongside each other.
Franks had some pretty freaky stats in terms of what he could do with his Olympic weightlifting. So it’s an absolute mystery why it took little more than a blade of grass for him to hit the deck while carrying the ball.
Because Franks didn't have athletic balance. Static power, but not the flexibility and reflexes to shift impact from tacklers, he could only take impact rigidly and as soon as he was off balance he just hit the dirt and stayed there.
Which is why judo and wrestling are so good for rugby players...I think some top forwards and centres had either as background...(judo: McDowall, that French loosie Dusautoir; wrestling: Moody, Sammy Tuitupou, )..
Franks was never a big ball carrier even in his age grade days or starting out his pro career. What he did work on was having reliable hands, reducing his error rate. His real strengths were at set piece both in the scrum and lineout lifting. But for me the best part of his game was his clean out work. He knew how to shift bodies and for both the Saders and ABs, it meant we could retain possession and help provide a platform for others that knew how to use the ball in hand.
Yep. The AB cleaners haven't been as effective over the last 2-3 years. Accuracy isn't quite there.
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@act-crusader said in AB Props:
@nostrildamus said in AB Props:
@nostrildamus said in AB Props:
**I don't think we lack for props, its more how those props are being used or played. It's funny how explosive hookers have become when they are very similar in size to many props. I just wonder why props don't seem to have the same ball carrying ability.
**
Another question, which international props do you think are the best and why perhaps?I don’t think this was better exemplified than when Owen Franks and Dane Coles played alongside each other.
Franks had some pretty freaky stats in terms of what he could do with his Olympic weightlifting. So it’s an absolute mystery why it took little more than a blade of grass for him to hit the deck while carrying the ball.
Because Franks didn't have athletic balance. Static power, but not the flexibility and reflexes to shift impact from tacklers, he could only take impact rigidly and as soon as he was off balance he just hit the dirt and stayed there.
Which is why judo and wrestling are so good for rugby players...I think some top forwards and centres had either as background...(judo: McDowall, that French loosie Dusautoir; wrestling: Moody, Sammy Tuitupou, )..
Franks was never a big ball carrier even in his age grade days or starting out his pro career. What he did work on was having reliable hands, reducing his error rate. His real strengths were at set piece both in the scrum and lineout lifting. But for me the best part of his game was his clean out work. He knew how to shift bodies and for both the Saders and ABs, it meant we could retain possession and help provide a platform for others that knew how to use the ball in hand.
well said. I didn't want to sound too critical but probably did. He obviously had other strengths.
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I just don't understand the buzz around Newell. He was rated behind Olli Jager in the Canterbury starting XV and when he was on the field, he did not set the world on fire.
Williams, on the other hand, was powerful in the loose but struggled at scrum time when he was used on the tight head side. Looks a specialist LH IMO.
You must field very big props against the best nations. At least, they can compete physically in the loose.
For the next RWC, I'd like to see a combination of De Groot (or Hodgman) - Taukei'aho - Lomax. ST is already ready, Hodgman and Lomax have to step up significantly next year. -
I'm cautious about Williams just because he is so big.
My impression is that if you're really big you might not have the aggression or technique needed as you've got to where you are just by being big.
I'm thinking Jamie MacIntosh.
Hope I'm wrong though.
god whopper could have been a force if he wasn't such a marshmallow (comparatively, would still crush your average person), he had all the physical traits but just couldn't bring them to bear on the pitch, even at super level really
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@booboo Yes, that 2017 U20 team was very good. Captained by Jacobson. The other starting loose forwards were Papalii and Mikaele-Tu'u. Clarke scored tries for fun.
The same exercise for U20 props:
2021 - Joe Gavigan, Sione Ahio, Jack Sexton, Luca Inch, Josh Fusitua
2020 - Hamdahn Tuipulotu, Benet Kumeroa, Finlay Brewis, Tamaiti Williams, Fletcher Newell, Thomas Edwards, Jimmy Roots, Saula Mau
2019 - George Dyer, Fletcher Newell, Ollie Norris, Kaliopasi Uluilakepa, Tamaiti Williams
2018 - Sione Asi, Rob Cobb, Tevita Mafileo, Xavier Numia, Kaliopasi Uluilakepa
2017 - Ryan Coxon, Tim Farrell, Alex Fidow, Ezekiel Lindenmuth, Pouri Rakete-Stones, (Harry Allen)
2016 - Ayden Johnstone, Shaun Stodart, Sean Paranihi, Alex Fidow, Sosefo KautaiAs with the 1st 5s, only a wider training squad was selected in 2020.
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I just don't understand the buzz around Newell. He was rated behind Olli Jager in the Canterbury starting XV and when he was on the field, he did not set the world on fire.
Williams, on the other hand, was powerful in the loose but struggled at scrum time when he was used on the tight head side. Looks a specialist LH IMO.
You must field very big props against the best nations. At least, they can compete physically in the loose.
For the next RWC, I'd like to see a combination of De Groot (or Hodgman) - Taukei'aho - Lomax. ST is already ready, Hodgman and Lomax have to step up significantly next year.I’m not quite on the bandwagon, but there are some very good technical things Newell does which is a positive sign for the future. Not surprising that he was behind Jager given Jager’s experience and all round play.
Sami has long term AB written all over him. Size, skill and temperament. I think we need to see more of DeGroot before making a proper assessment. There is a good base for Hodgman to springboard from.
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@booboo Yes, that 2017 U20 team was very good. Captained by Jacobson. The other starting loose forwards were Papalii and Mikaele-Tu'u. Clarke scored tries for fun.
The same exercise for U20 props:
2021 - Joe Gavigan, Sione Ahio, Jack Sexton, Luca Inch, Josh Fusitua
2020 - Hamdahn Tuipulotu, Benet Kumeroa, Finlay Brewis, Tamaiti Williams, Fletcher Newell, Thomas Edwards, Jimmy Roots, Saula Mau
2019 - George Dyer, Fletcher Newell, Ollie Norris, Kaliopasi Uluilakepa, Tamaiti Williams
2018 - Sione Asi, Rob Cobb, Tevita Mafileo, Xavier Numia, Kaliopasi Uluilakepa
2017 - Ryan Coxon, Tim Farrell, Alex Fidow, Ezekiel Lindenmuth, Pouri Rakete-Stones, (Harry Allen)
2016 - Ayden Johnstone, Shaun Stodart, Sean Paranihi, Alex Fidow, Sosefo KautaiAs with the 1st 5s, only a wider training squad was selected in 2020.
Three years there where basically none of them have gone on to do anything. A few of them are at the Canes but hardly making waves.
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@chimoaus I feel that the best ball running props end up at hooker, providing they can throw (at least to some degree). Then you have guys like Tupou who are natural props but have that explosive running game.
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What's the word on the new Highlander's prop Saula Ma'u?
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Jeez I hope Tosi comes along further at prop, a beast with ball in hand, still raw and young, if he ever did become a hooker it would be Aleki Lutui style
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Is Karl T really 135kg? He doesn't look that much heavier than De Groot there (supposedly 122kg)?
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@paekakboyz said in AB Props:
@chimoaus I feel that the best ball running props end up at hooker, providing they can throw (at least to some degree). Then you have guys like Tupou who are natural props but have that explosive running game.
by natural prop do you mean his body shape? As Tupou was always an explosive runner, I understand, I thought his propping was (least a few years ago) a work in progress..
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Oh, now they have to do it.
How about a few years ago?Geez I didn’t think Owen Franks mediocrity around the field would ever be topped but here we are.
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@nostrildamus a mix of body shape and having that scrummaging attitude
I know hookers are a key part of the front row but there is just something about propping ha ha. It's a lot of fun if you can match the other fulla in strength and technique. Even better if you are ahead on one or both!
