All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@duluth said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
All the comments about the French Test are getting crowded out. Can we keep this thread about selections for this week etc?
More general stuff about changing coaches etc can go in the AB 2021 thread
and to bring it around to this
i would cut Foster an awful lot of slack if he chucked the baby out with the bathwater this week and just threw newbies in there everywhere. Lets see what they are made of.
You'd be among a very small minority!!!
I'm in the hell no camp!!! We did that against Italy a fortnight ago and the newbies were pretty uniformly ordinary.
Funnily enough (as you implied earlier) we're missing Scott Barrett. After watching Vaa'i against Italy, I wasn't surprised Foster was scared to bring him off the bench vs Ireland, because vs Italy he was a penalty/turnover-giving machine. So we were stuck with Brodie and Sam who were probably gassed.
A selection cock-up was picking Christie if they didn't have the confidence to use him. They should have put Smith on the bench if they weren't prepared to put Christie on in a tight game.
I'm also not in the camp that we've left anyone much at home who would have made a difference (other than the injured or unavailable - Barrett, Goodhue, Tuipolotou). It was very clear at the end of Super rugby that Big Leicester wasn't ready for test rugby. Similarly, Rayasi.
Where we've been in agreement for years is against playing dual opensides. We didn't quite do that - we played a big 7, a small 6 and 7 at 8. Miles away from Kaino, McCaw, Read gold standard.
I'd probably be inclined to play AIoane, Cane, Jacobsen this week and Blackadder or Papalií on the bench. But, what I wouldn't mind seeing is Ioane at 8, so that he prepares space for Tom Robinson to come in at 6 next year.
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@victor-meldrew yes, i realise i may have been coming across like i thought they didn't have the skill, of course they do, we've all seen it...theyre just struggling for some reason and as has been mentioned they are not showing the composure to do the basics right
I guess i came at it from a simplify the game plan approach, let them get out of their heads a bit
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@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
From what I observed, it's not a skill issue; rather a composure one.
Me too. They seem to have also lost the ability to control the tempo of the game, calm down and do the simple things well when under pressure. Disappointing as the signs of that were starting to show up against Oz and the 1st Boks game.
That's a big part of the 10s job and why I was so pissed off at Mounga.
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@chris-b said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@duluth said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
All the comments about the French Test are getting crowded out. Can we keep this thread about selections for this week etc?
More general stuff about changing coaches etc can go in the AB 2021 thread
and to bring it around to this
i would cut Foster an awful lot of slack if he chucked the baby out with the bathwater this week and just threw newbies in there everywhere. Lets see what they are made of.
You'd be among a very small minority!!!
I'm in the hell no camp!!! We did that against Italy a fortnight ago and the newbies were pretty uniformly ordinary.
Funnily enough (as you implied earlier) we're missing Scott Barrett. After watching Vaa'i against Italy, I wasn't surprised Foster was scared to bring him off the bench vs Ireland, because vs Italy he was a penalty/turnover-giving machine. So we were stuck with Brodie and Sam who were probably gassed.
A selection cock-up was picking Christie if they didn't have the confidence to use him. They should have put Smith on the bench if they weren't prepared to put Christie on in a tight game.
I'm also not in the camp that we've left anyone much at home who would have made a difference (other than the injured or unavailable - Barrett, Goodhue, Tuipolotou). It was very clear at the end of Super rugby that Big Leicester wasn't ready for test rugby. Similarly, Rayasi.
Where we've been in agreement for years is against playing dual opensides. We didn't quite do that - we played a big 7, a small 6 and 7 at 8. Miles away from Kaino, McCaw, Read gold standard.
I'd probably be inclined to play AIoane, Cane, Jacobsen this week and Blackadder or Papalií on the bench. But, what I wouldn't mind seeing is Ioane at 8, so that he prepares space for Tom Robinson to come in at 6 next year.
so, essentially, we're fucked?
Because the newbies aren't good enough, and the supposed "rockstars" are playing like shit for various reasons.
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@chris-b said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@duluth said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
All the comments about the French Test are getting crowded out. Can we keep this thread about selections for this week etc?
More general stuff about changing coaches etc can go in the AB 2021 thread
and to bring it around to this
i would cut Foster an awful lot of slack if he chucked the baby out with the bathwater this week and just threw newbies in there everywhere. Lets see what they are made of.
You'd be among a very small minority!!!
I'm in the hell no camp!!! We did that against Italy a fortnight ago and the newbies were pretty uniformly ordinary.
Funnily enough (as you implied earlier) we're missing Scott Barrett. After watching Vaa'i against Italy, I wasn't surprised Foster was scared to bring him off the bench vs Ireland, because vs Italy he was a penalty/turnover-giving machine. So we were stuck with Brodie and Sam who were probably gassed.
A selection cock-up was picking Christie if they didn't have the confidence to use him. They should have put Smith on the bench if they weren't prepared to put Christie on in a tight game.
I'm also not in the camp that we've left anyone much at home who would have made a difference (other than the injured or unavailable - Barrett, Goodhue, Tuipolotou). It was very clear at the end of Super rugby that Big Leicester wasn't ready for test rugby. Similarly, Rayasi.
Where we've been in agreement for years is against playing dual opensides. We didn't quite do that - we played a big 7, a small 6 and 7 at 8. Miles away from Kaino, McCaw, Read gold standard.
I'd probably be inclined to play AIoane, Cane, Jacobsen this week and Blackadder or Papalií on the bench. But, what I wouldn't mind seeing is Ioane at 8, so that he prepares space for Tom Robinson to come in at 6 next year.
Tom Robinson is a red headed taller version of Blackadder
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@antipodean Totally agree, I don't think the Irish players are more skilled then the ABs. But fuck me they were all on the same page and the fluidity to their attack and structure was fantastic.
The ABs rushed passes and lack of ball control really is an issue. It's almost as if the players are trying to create something from nothing and don't have confidence in their systems. The two teams were worlds apart in terms of structure and gameplans. -
@crucial said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
From what I observed, it's not a skill issue; rather a composure one.
Me too. They seem to have also lost the ability to control the tempo of the game, calm down and do the simple things well when under pressure. Disappointing as the signs of that were starting to show up against Oz and the 1st Boks game.
That's a big part of the 10s job and why I was so pissed off at Mounga.
But who should be and isn't talking to Mounga?
I remember Carter praising Nonu for talking to him all the time about how he saw the game unfolding. Perhaps that why AS seems so key to our success as the newer players lack the experience or confidence to speak out
EDIT: I should add that this is something for the coach to fix.
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@crucial said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
From what I observed, it's not a skill issue; rather a composure one.
Me too. They seem to have also lost the ability to control the tempo of the game, calm down and do the simple things well when under pressure. Disappointing as the signs of that were starting to show up against Oz and the 1st Boks game.
That's a big part of the 10s job and why I was so pissed off at Mounga.
shows how much we rely on smith for this
@Victor-Meldrew yes, and i think this is where having a clear preference in each position help, with several games in a row to build that confidence in each other
currently pretty much every position in the backline as at least 2 people who have an even shot at starting
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@mariner4life We are in trouble - but, it's stuff that might be repairable in a week. After all, we had two close games vs the World Champions and shared a series with them.
UK articles after the Italy match were sniffing blood in the water and reckoning we were jaded and ripe for the taking. I didn't give that much credence at the time, because that was our B team - and we brought plenty of defensive intensity and workrate vs Ireland - but, every time we had a chance to break the shackles we fucked it up - by dropping a kick-off or an untidy exit, or an aimless kick, or a wild pass, or shit handling, or losing our own lineout throw.
We need to be brighter. I've barely got the heart to ask who tapped and ran a penalty under our own posts when we'd been pinned down there? I guess if they were looking for an element of surprise it probably worked, because it fucking surprised me!
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@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@Victor-Meldrew yes, and i think this is where having a clear preference in each position help, with several games in a row to build that confidence in each other
Explains why Foster is sticking with Havili?
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@victor-meldrew i mean...he is except when he goes with QT or ALB.....
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@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@crucial said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
From what I observed, it's not a skill issue; rather a composure one.
Me too. They seem to have also lost the ability to control the tempo of the game, calm down and do the simple things well when under pressure. Disappointing as the signs of that were starting to show up against Oz and the 1st Boks game.
That's a big part of the 10s job and why I was so pissed off at Mounga.
But who should be and isn't talking to Mounga?
I remember Carter praising Nonu for talking to him all the time about how he saw the game unfolding. Perhaps that why AS seems so key to our success as the newer players lack the experience or confidence to speak out
EDIT: I should add that this is something for the coach to fix.
Should also be the fullback who has time and space to look downfield and call options. I dont see JB doing that.
Even at school level, if we went into a game where we expected to be kicking and putting pressure on the 10 would get calls from the 15 based in a grid of nine zones. eg 1 meant far left, three far right, 4 medium left, 6 medium right etc.
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So Foster blames the backs and states he is pretty happy with his forwards.
Today Plumtree comes out and says the Forwards need to stand up because they are just as responsible. and they were not good enough, which is it.
Good to see they are on the same page or are they confused,How about the coaching staff take some responsibility, noooo of course not they do no wrong. -
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@arhs said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@crucial spot on. The lack of analysis and direction from our backline generals was the biggest issue I saw. But we lost BB and ALB early and no Smith or Weber so it was always going to be a challenge.
Its pretty hard for the backs with 39 percent of position and having slow shit ball delivered to you with a half back who has a slow terrible pass against a fast line rush defence.
I would love to see some people deal with that that on on the fern.Easy to talk the talk until you are in that position its hard to access,As you have directions from the coaching staff about how you want to play,And maybe those directions do not suit what's coming at you.
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@chris in general yes...but...when ask the also say they're aiming to play this broken counter attack kind of rugby...but when they get the ball in broken play they look frantic...are they looking for an organised kind of broken play?
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@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris in general yes...but...when ask the also say they're aiming to play this broken counter attack kind of rugby...but when they get the ball in broken play they look frantic...are they looking for an organised kind of broken play?
I don't know it looks like they are a bit confused, maybe no clear messages from the coaching staff.
as JB mostly kicked the ball straight down centre field and gave possession away, normally we would try to counter attack with space in front of us.
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@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@arhs said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@crucial spot on. The lack of analysis and direction from our backline generals was the biggest issue I saw. But we lost BB and ALB early and no Smith or Weber so it was always going to be a challenge.
Its pretty hard for the backs with 39 percent of position and having slow shit ball delivered to you with a half back who has a slow terrible pass against a fast line rush defence.
I would love to see some people deal with that that on on the fern.Easy to talk the talk until you are in that position its hard to access,As you have directions from the coaching staff about how you want to play,And maybe those directions do not suit what's coming at you.
Did RM drop back into the pocket more and put the ball in zones behind the rush line? Nope. Did the midfield stand deeper and have JB take an angled line? Did the wings come on runs inside or outside RM?
Just played plan A.
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@crucial said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@arhs said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@crucial spot on. The lack of analysis and direction from our backline generals was the biggest issue I saw. But we lost BB and ALB early and no Smith or Weber so it was always going to be a challenge.
Its pretty hard for the backs with 39 percent of position and having slow shit ball delivered to you with a half back who has a slow terrible pass against a fast line rush defence.
I would love to see some people deal with that that on on the fern.Easy to talk the talk until you are in that position its hard to access,As you have directions from the coaching staff about how you want to play,And maybe those directions do not suit what's coming at you.
Did RM drop back into the pocket more and put the ball in zones behind the rush line? Nope. Did the midfield stand deeper and have JB take an angled line? Did the wings come on runs inside or outside RM?
Just played plan A.
Totally. Unbelievable that nothing changed. No depth, or playing off nine. Just same old and hope for better outcomes. And from the review it seems the ABs still think that way. Utter lunacy
