All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour
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@stodders Yeah I’m not too happy with the way the TMO is going these days. Maybe they should have some over head cam that follows the play. But basing a call Of that view does not make any sense at all and it does question the credibility of these guys.
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@broughie I thought the first Irish try warranted a further look, the passer was moving sideways so little forward momentum and ball clearly moved forward, 50-50 and one that is more often given.
Have no issues with it, but all we ask is consistency when looking at and replaying these things.
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@broughie said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@stodders Yeah I’m not too happy with the way the TMO is going these days. Maybe they should have some over head cam that follows the play. But basing a call Of that view does not make any sense at all and it does question the credibility of these guys.
TMO feed should be independent of the domestic broadcaster. It isn't like World Rugby don't have funds to do it. And big screens should be banned from showing replays until the ref decision has been made. I know ppl will say they want to be kept informed at the ground, but they don't do it for VAR in football. If we're looking for complete fairness, there has to be a balance between entertaining the fans and adjudicating fairly.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@act-crusader said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@nta TJP and Codie should’ve been subbed early in the 2nd half. That is on the coaches
Another bugbear of mine. Our bench players often have little impact when they come on compared to the past.
Because they are not as good
Did anyone think "fuck, we need really need to get Va'ai and Christie put there to inject some shit"?
Our talent pool is not there my guys. Our national program, and the player drain is fucking us
I was thinking TJP's passing is killing our backline -- FCS give Christie a shot!!!
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@stodders said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@pakman said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@stodders said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@crucial said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@kirwan said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
I think it was well summarised above, we have an Australian forward back. Playing too many sevens, no ball runners and no physicality.
Teams like England, SA and now the Irish know they can just beat us up front and it doesn’t matter who is in the backs.
Missed ST on the bench, probably Ofa too, Akira should have started and we are screwed at lock as Brodie is not the player he was.
Would have been the perfect game to start Coles as well, for that oft used word mongrel.
When Coles comes on and the rugby intelligence increases you know that the starting XV was wrong.
For all the gnashing of teeth though I would put money on us still winning that with Smith and BB in the halves and ALB staying on.
We probably lost the two backs that could have assessed stuff and adjusted.
Sliding doors moment was the forward pass try. There was just no need to force the pass forward. Akira was clean through regardless.
Other area to consider is ABs conceded 15 points without reply at beginning of 2nd half. Boks did the same to them at beginning of second test in RC this year. Have teams spotted something in NZ at beginning of 2nd half to exploit?
I was also reflecting on that this morning. We used to be deadly in first five minutes of second.
Is that not a sign of mental tiredness?
My gut tells me that's probably right.
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@stodders said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@broughie said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@stodders Yeah I’m not too happy with the way the TMO is going these days. Maybe they should have some over head cam that follows the play. But basing a call Of that view does not make any sense at all and it does question the credibility of these guys.
TMO feed should be independent of the domestic broadcaster. It isn't like World Rugby don't have funds to do it. And big screens should be banned from showing replays until the ref decision has been made. I know ppl will say they want to be kept informed at the ground, but they don't do it for VAR in football. If we're looking for complete fairness, there has to be a balance between entertaining the fans and adjudicating fairly.
If forward passes are so important (they are) get some overhead footage, or someone who understands geometry.
The 'hands move forward' is meaningless unless one adjusts for perspective.
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@majorrage Well said that man, Xactly how I feel a day later. I'm still fucking raging about how godamn ineffective we were. Played like a bunch of individual primadonnas "Iv'e been away from family on tour for so long" - well boo fucking hoo.
You get one shot you motherfarkin assholes - AND YOU BLEW IT.
Every time Lowe got the ball in his hands he looked dangerous like he was going to cut us wide open - and that try? Well, a special, right out of the Chiefs playbook. Damn Gibson-Park looked way better than TJ too. Agreed on the coaching in Ireland, the methodology seems to be working.
Fister Macleod Mooar and all hangers on should be gone. End of. When I think we have two more fuckin years of this BS it is intolerable. -
@canefan said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@mrdenmore player and brain drain is a natural result of our success. Few would argue that we let anyone of these players go and that they would walk into the ABs. But I think all of us would agree we are not playing to our optimal best
This is very true but it speaks to issues with our coaching and selection policies - the fact that guys who couldn’t “cut it “ in NZ can go overseas, improve their games and then out play their “better” opposite numbers in black.
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Can you guys organize a manure dump at the NZRFU headquarters front door. I know symbolic but with some reference to Foster at least a point would be made.
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@broughie said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
Can you guys organize a manure dump at the NZRFU headquarters front door. I know symbolic but with some reference to Foster at least a point would be made.
Ideally with lots of empty KFC buckets
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
Super rugby aotearoa hos hidden so much. We have these games that are flat out, everyone wants themselves about how they are "test match intensity" and we talk up thr talent we have, and the huge depth
And as soon as we play someone who plays a bit different we get smacked, and realise we build, and wank over, players that do not measure up to modern top level test rugby.
We have to pick old locks because there is no one else. And we are not building any either. And out domestic coaching isn't either. The entire system has lost its way.
We have too many touch rugby players from one to fifteen. As soon as we come up against a team that makes their tackles - hard tackles in particular - we have zero interest across the board. We no longer play a contact sport I’m afraid
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@nepia said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
Just reading back through the thread. Why do the stats houses get Akira's stats wrong? That's twice now they've published stats saying he made no tackles when clearly any viewer with half a functioning eye can tell them otherwise. On his brother, he seems to be copping it in the thread but I thought he was one of our better performed backs, although guilty of a couple of dud passes which was pretty much par amongst our backs.
On thinking about the NH rush defence I think the pack has to play up the middle, but crucially the forwards need to be tight as fuck so that there are always numbers as NH refs seem to favour the defender regardless of whether they're on their feet/in through the gate etc.
@stodders said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@tim agreed, but point is he is a 7, not an 8.
Tbf I think cane, Dalton and Blackadder are all 6.5s, need to be looking at specialists, not all rounders.
NZ rugby looooves all rounders because we are all in on "get your best 15 players on the park"
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You have to ask - will NZ be able to ignore the overseas playing talent that they could select for much longer?
What overseas playing talent do you think would make the ABs?
I can think of a halfback, second five and winger who would all do better than the ones who played for us this weekend
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@stodders said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
It's just that our plan A is not that great
We have a Plan A?
Yes. Defend, turnover, then score a dazzler from 70m. No? 😁
In all seriousness, the set piece is good, but i've not seen enough good strike moves off first phase possession really challenging the defensive line. When ABs have, they have carved openings against good defences (think Boks second test and this test against Ireland).
I would hope the coaches are looking at the team's reluctance to hold onto the ball. If kicking away, it has to be contestable and the defence needs to be forcing the opposition to earn their metres and force mistakes.
Keep it simple. Less hail Mary low percentage plays
That's been the issue since the second Lions test. Some of the set piece calls weren't even school boy level. That first Lions test was the last "perfect" display. For some reason they have moved away from that blueprint or have been unable to repeat.
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@junior said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@nepia said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
Just reading back through the thread. Why do the stats houses get Akira's stats wrong? That's twice now they've published stats saying he made no tackles when clearly any viewer with half a functioning eye can tell them otherwise. On his brother, he seems to be copping it in the thread but I thought he was one of our better performed backs, although guilty of a couple of dud passes which was pretty much par amongst our backs.
On thinking about the NH rush defence I think the pack has to play up the middle, but crucially the forwards need to be tight as fuck so that there are always numbers as NH refs seem to favour the defender regardless of whether they're on their feet/in through the gate etc.
@stodders said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@tim agreed, but point is he is a 7, not an 8.
Tbf I think cane, Dalton and Blackadder are all 6.5s, need to be looking at specialists, not all rounders.
NZ rugby looooves all rounders because we are all in on "get your best 15 players on the park"
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You have to ask - will NZ be able to ignore the overseas playing talent that they could select for much longer?
What overseas playing talent do you think would make the ABs?
I can think of a halfback, second five and winger who would all do better than the ones who played for us this weekend
Definitely, they needed a solid playmaker on the wing which was sorely lacking over the weekend.
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The only positive I can think of is that we will be facing these guys again in 7 months. Let's hope that they send their full strength squad to NZ.
I think Laulala and Taylor have to be dropped from the 23 or at the very least from the starting 15. Bring Ofa T in along with ST and let's also start giving players like de Groot and QT more game time against the top teams .
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Peak Fern this thread Tougher to read than the game was to watch and it was a bloody hard watch.
First up. Congratulations to Ireland. You owned us from the 1st - 80th minutes. An AB escape would have been a travesty. Played with passion, power and positive intent and beat us up all over the park.
Those noting Ireland have beaten is in 3/5 are fixating on how much we have declined and ignoring how much Ireland has improved. Ireland have always been up for the contest but have always run out of legs / ideas. This is a golden era for Irish rugby and we should acknowledge that. This Ireland side would have given it to far better AB teams than they one they faced yesterday.
Reading the thread there does seem to be a fair bit of revisionism going on. I don't remember there being that many complaints about the team selection when it was announced. The same was true ahead of our loss to the Boks too. Most Ferners seemed to think the team chosen was the best available.
Well my thought as the match unfolded was (apart from Fuck we could be in for a record hiding) that it was going to be impossible to come up with 3 names to nominate for AB player of the match. Actually that's been true for a while. I haven't picked three 'stars' all tour. I think we need to accept that the players in this squad aren't all that good. Certainly not aa good as they think they are.
Fuck we were dumb. Obviously the training sessions don't focus on the mental skills. Is Enoka still involved? The backline played like so many teams the AB's have bossed over the years, panicky clearances interspersed with shovelling it on until we run out of space.
However it's hard for any backline to shine when their pack is getting owned. Ireland were all over us in every facet. I can't think of any AB who would break into the Irish side based on that tests performances.
I don't think a change in coaches would make that much difference TBH - and you'd have to have a massive ego to believe that you could fix things overnight. That wasn't The Fields of Athenry ringing round the ground. It was the sound of chickens coming home to roost.
Positives ummm We know the scale of the problem and we know who isn't up for the job. Solutions? Short term. - play people in their natural positions. Instill in them that test footy is an uncompromising battlefield and sometimes trench warfare is the only answer. Make people off and on the field accountable and stop making fucking excuses. Cherish possession as clearly we aren't good enough to dominate it. Realise that feeding off other sides mistakes is yesterday's chip paper especially when you're not good enough to force those mistakes. Keep it simple. Respect the opposition. You may be the AB's but that doesn't instill fear any more and it certainly doesn't give you a god given right to win or play off the cuff razzle dazzle.
You're simply not that good.
Fucking pray we face the bad French and not the good ones
Don't let yourselves down. It'll be a long summer if you can't look yourself in the mirror.
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@dogmeat said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
I think we need to accept that the players in this squad aren't all that good. Certainly not aa good as they think they are.
How do you know what they think of themselves? Are you a mind reader? I've not seen any indication that players are full of themselves. I see no arrogance at all.
Fuck we were dumb. Obviously the training sessions don't focus on the mental skills. Is Enoka still involved?
Yes, Enoka is still there.
Respect the opposition. You may be the AB's but that doesn't instill fear any more and it certainly doesn't give you a god given right to win or play off the cuff razzle dazzle.
You're simply not that good.
Again, where do you get the idea from that they don't respect the opposition or that they think they have a "god given right to win". I see plenty of mistakes, or just players being overpowered, outrun etc. I don't see complacency or arrogance.
If anything, your post breathes condescension.
