AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass
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@chris-b said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@junior said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
What you need to remember is that the guys in the last 10 years only had the games and abilities they did because of the feats of the guys that came before them and the way that the game and the various positions have developed as a result - standing on the shoulders of giants and all that.
Probably not so much me who needs to remember it as those fuckers who piss off overseas on massive contracts with "our" intellectual property - they're standing on the shoulders of midgets (most of us) as well.
Can't really disagree with your post and I've been winding up @MN5 a little bit. But, if you're dealing in absolute fact, there's no doubt I'm right. And the 15 guys I've picked will all get supplanted in the next 20 years.
My point is pretty boring - it's "best" as opposed to "greatest".
I get the point that point that, in a raw like for like comparison, even George Bridge would run rings around Ron Jarden...
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@mn5 said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@chris-b said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@mn5 said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@chris-b said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@mn5 said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@nepia said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@chris-b said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@mn5 said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@chris-b said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@taniwharugby Yeah - rugby has evolved.
With possibly a tiny handful of exceptions - the best ever All Blacks have played within the past 10 years.
Guys like Cully, Jonah, JK, Wilson, Bunce, Brooke, M Jones, Fitzy and Hayman to name just a few are more than a tiny handful.
You may be misinterpreting my point.
Cully, Brooke, Jones and Fitzy are all too small to be the best now. They would all be rag-dolled.
JK is from the amateur era - his unusual size for that era would be totally nullified - he'd now be a smallish winger.
Hayman, maybe. Jonah, maybe.
That's a silly way to look at it and makes the exercise pointless, let's just trash this thread now. If playing now all if those three bar maybe Cullen would be bigger (Fitzy is roughly the same size as Coles), and even then I reckon even Cullen would have a bit more explosive muscle (if that's possible).
Also, thinking JKs key ability was his size is just plain silly, yes he had power, but he also had pace and running skill - and he'd be gymed up to fuck if h was playing now.
Does anyone else remember John Drake explaining how they deliberately didn't update their weights back then so the opposition thought they were lighter?
The Auckland guys were all gym junkies well before Rugby went pro which helped them take the Shield on the road and thrash division three teams by cricket scores. Steve McDowell as one example could bench 180kg apparently.
There was a massive jump between the 80s and 90s ( where backs the size of Terry Wright, Craig Green and Warwick Taylor became relics of a bygone age ) but by the mid to late 90s the AB team was stacked with players/athletes who would still smash it in todays environment. I think Scotlands Alan Tait said it best when he went to league in the late 80s ( and was humbled by the fitness/strength requirements ) to when he came back to union in the late 90s ( where he was shocked at how conditioned, strong and powerful his union teammates had become )
Jonah played from 1994 to 2002. George Bridge plays today. Need I say anymore ?
How was Jonah under the high ball? As a defender?
I can remember him getting lambasted for jogging back to balls kicked behind him, but that was probably after his kidney problems really kicked in - so not peak Jonah.
He would still cut it with ball in hand. But, peak RIoane and peak JSavea are pretty likely to be more rounded players and not much of a step down offensively.
Not relevant to this discussion as you were talking about getting “rag dolled”
Jonahs lack of basic skills in some areas have been done to death. His offence was the best the game has ever seen.
It's entirely relevant to the point that I'm arguing, which is that pretty much everyone in the best ever AB team played in the last
1050 years.There. That should be all that needs to be said on the matter. I’ve extended my range just so some old timer can wank on about Pinetree but this should exclude any jockey sized midfielders from days gone by who would ( as you allude to ) get rag dolled.
Good Day Sir.
My Dad always reckoned that Maurice Brownlie chap was pretty special.....
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@mn5 said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
There. That should be all that needs to be said on the matter. I’ve extended my range just so some old timer can wank on about Pinetree but this should exclude any jockey sized midfielders from days gone by who would ( as you allude to ) get rag dolled.
Play the game in Pinetree's era, and transport the players back. See how they cope with getting smacked in teh face, playing with heavy boots, and leather balls that are like bars of soap. Honestly, it was a different sport back then. The mental toughness of the old timers was next level though, Meads is an AB in any era, just a monster
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@nzzp said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@mn5 said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
There. That should be all that needs to be said on the matter. I’ve extended my range just so some old timer can wank on about Pinetree but this should exclude any jockey sized midfielders from days gone by who would ( as you allude to ) get rag dolled.
Play the game in Pinetree's era, and transport the players back. See how they cope with getting smacked in teh face, playing with heavy boots, and leather balls that are like bars of soap. Honestly, it was a different sport back then. The mental toughness of the old timers was next level though, Meads is an AB in any era, just a monster
I mean hell, watch any game before the professional era and its a completely different sport.
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@nzzp said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@mn5 said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
There. That should be all that needs to be said on the matter. I’ve extended my range just so some old timer can wank on about Pinetree but this should exclude any jockey sized midfielders from days gone by who would ( as you allude to ) get rag dolled.
Play the game in Pinetree's era, and transport the players back. See how they cope with getting smacked in teh face, playing with heavy boots, and leather balls that are like bars of soap. Honestly, it was a different sport back then. The mental toughness of the old timers was next level though, Meads is an AB in any era, just a monster
Meads would be a 6 today or even a 12 - he had the skills for it. And he'd probably be no.1 on the team sheet or thereabouts.
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Hypothetical,
I wonder where Carl Hayman would fit in in these discussions if he had hung around longer ?
It was bloody good while it lasted
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@victor-meldrew said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@winger said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
The whiteboard session that proved Ma'a Nonu as an All Blacks great
Everyone knows about the greatness of former All Blacks midfielder Ma'a Nonu on the field, but few know the impact he made off the park.
It was pretty obvious Ma'a was a keen student of the game if you look at how he developed over the years. Certainly no-one's fool rugby-wise
Pretty happy with Bruce Robertson at 13. He's still the standard for an old bugger like me - think Conrad Smith but better and a bit more skilful. Could drop a goal from 40m if you needed him to.
Couldn’t agree more.
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@sparky said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@sparky said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@sparky said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
Always tough to compare players from different eras. I can only really compare players I've seen live which rules out anyone who played before 1983. Based on what I've seen. My All Black greatest forward pack would be.
- Tony Woodcock
- Sean Fitzpatrick
- Olo Brown
- Brodie Retallick
- Sam Whitelock
- Jerome Kaino
- Richie McCaw
- Buck Shelford
- Aaron Smith
- Daniel Carter
- Ma'a Nonu
- Frank Bunce (who the Breakdown didn't even shortlist).
11 Jonah Lomu
14 John Kirwan
15 Christian Cullen -
Cully, Brooke, Jones and Fitzy are all too small to be the best now. They would all be rag-dolled.
It's entirely relevant to the point that I'm arguing, which is that pretty much everyone in the best ever AB team played in the last 10 years.
That is utter garbage. Are you a teenager who did not see rugby pre 2010? The skillsets of some of the earlier greats like Cullen, Wilson and Brooke were so obvious. The game is so dumbed down now to be all about power and size. Yet Cheslin Kolbe is still an OK player and Aaron Smith is not too bad. Even Lomu might get a game and not get ragdolled.
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I dont really remember Robertson as it was a bit before my time, but with respect to Snakey I can say that I saw him play for NZ universities in Hamilton and he was so easily the classiest the player on the park. He was just electric at gliding through gaps and distributing to make others look better.
As a combination, I dint think you can go past those two.
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@pakman said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@victor-meldrew said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@winger said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
The whiteboard session that proved Ma'a Nonu as an All Blacks great
Everyone knows about the greatness of former All Blacks midfielder Ma'a Nonu on the field, but few know the impact he made off the park.
It was pretty obvious Ma'a was a keen student of the game if you look at how he developed over the years. Certainly no-one's fool rugby-wise
Pretty happy with Bruce Robertson at 13. He's still the standard for an old bugger like me - think Conrad Smith but better and a bit more skilful. Could drop a goal from 40m if you needed him to.
Couldn’t agree more.
Check out a 20 year old BR at 9.23:
