AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass
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@chris-b said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@mn5 said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@nepia said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@chris-b said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@mn5 said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@chris-b said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@taniwharugby Yeah - rugby has evolved.
With possibly a tiny handful of exceptions - the best ever All Blacks have played within the past 10 years.
Guys like Cully, Jonah, JK, Wilson, Bunce, Brooke, M Jones, Fitzy and Hayman to name just a few are more than a tiny handful.
You may be misinterpreting my point.
Cully, Brooke, Jones and Fitzy are all too small to be the best now. They would all be rag-dolled.
JK is from the amateur era - his unusual size for that era would be totally nullified - he'd now be a smallish winger.
Hayman, maybe. Jonah, maybe.
That's a silly way to look at it and makes the exercise pointless, let's just trash this thread now. If playing now all if those three bar maybe Cullen would be bigger (Fitzy is roughly the same size as Coles), and even then I reckon even Cullen would have a bit more explosive muscle (if that's possible).
Also, thinking JKs key ability was his size is just plain silly, yes he had power, but he also had pace and running skill - and he'd be gymed up to fuck if h was playing now.
Does anyone else remember John Drake explaining how they deliberately didn't update their weights back then so the opposition thought they were lighter?
The Auckland guys were all gym junkies well before Rugby went pro which helped them take the Shield on the road and thrash division three teams by cricket scores. Steve McDowell as one example could bench 180kg apparently.
There was a massive jump between the 80s and 90s ( where backs the size of Terry Wright, Craig Green and Warwick Taylor became relics of a bygone age ) but by the mid to late 90s the AB team was stacked with players/athletes who would still smash it in todays environment. I think Scotlands Alan Tait said it best when he went to league in the late 80s ( and was humbled by the fitness/strength requirements ) to when he came back to union in the late 90s ( where he was shocked at how conditioned, strong and powerful his union teammates had become )
Jonah played from 1994 to 2002. George Bridge plays today. Need I say anymore ?
How was Jonah under the high ball? As a defender?
I can remember him getting lambasted for jogging back to balls kicked behind him, but that was probably after his kidney problems really kicked in - so not peak Jonah.
He would still cut it with ball in hand. But, peak RIoane and peak JSavea are pretty likely to be more rounded players and not much of a step down offensively.
Not relevant to this discussion as you were talking about getting “rag dolled”
Jonahs lack of basic skills in some areas have been done to death. His offence was the best the game has ever seen.
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@mn5 said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@nostrildamus said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@mn5 said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
Steve McDowell as one example could bench 180kg apparently.
But was also plenty handy at judo if I recall correctly.
But according to @Chris-B he’d be ragdolled if he played today.
His All Black profile says he was 102 kgs.
Wait - that might be a picture of Steven Kitschoff...
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@chris-b said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@mn5 said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@nostrildamus said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@mn5 said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
Steve McDowell as one example could bench 180kg apparently.
But was also plenty handy at judo if I recall correctly.
But according to @Chris-B he’d be ragdolled if he played today.
His All Black profile says he was 102 kgs.
Wait - that might be a picture of Steven Kitschoff...
102kg of muscle. ( if it’s even accurate, please refer to one of @Nepia s earlier posts about weight )
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@mn5 said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@chris-b said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@mn5 said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@nepia said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@chris-b said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@mn5 said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@chris-b said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@taniwharugby Yeah - rugby has evolved.
With possibly a tiny handful of exceptions - the best ever All Blacks have played within the past 10 years.
Guys like Cully, Jonah, JK, Wilson, Bunce, Brooke, M Jones, Fitzy and Hayman to name just a few are more than a tiny handful.
You may be misinterpreting my point.
Cully, Brooke, Jones and Fitzy are all too small to be the best now. They would all be rag-dolled.
JK is from the amateur era - his unusual size for that era would be totally nullified - he'd now be a smallish winger.
Hayman, maybe. Jonah, maybe.
That's a silly way to look at it and makes the exercise pointless, let's just trash this thread now. If playing now all if those three bar maybe Cullen would be bigger (Fitzy is roughly the same size as Coles), and even then I reckon even Cullen would have a bit more explosive muscle (if that's possible).
Also, thinking JKs key ability was his size is just plain silly, yes he had power, but he also had pace and running skill - and he'd be gymed up to fuck if h was playing now.
Does anyone else remember John Drake explaining how they deliberately didn't update their weights back then so the opposition thought they were lighter?
The Auckland guys were all gym junkies well before Rugby went pro which helped them take the Shield on the road and thrash division three teams by cricket scores. Steve McDowell as one example could bench 180kg apparently.
There was a massive jump between the 80s and 90s ( where backs the size of Terry Wright, Craig Green and Warwick Taylor became relics of a bygone age ) but by the mid to late 90s the AB team was stacked with players/athletes who would still smash it in todays environment. I think Scotlands Alan Tait said it best when he went to league in the late 80s ( and was humbled by the fitness/strength requirements ) to when he came back to union in the late 90s ( where he was shocked at how conditioned, strong and powerful his union teammates had become )
Jonah played from 1994 to 2002. George Bridge plays today. Need I say anymore ?
How was Jonah under the high ball? As a defender?
I can remember him getting lambasted for jogging back to balls kicked behind him, but that was probably after his kidney problems really kicked in - so not peak Jonah.
He would still cut it with ball in hand. But, peak RIoane and peak JSavea are pretty likely to be more rounded players and not much of a step down offensively.
Not relevant to this discussion as you were talking about getting “rag dolled”
Jonahs lack of basic skills in some areas have been done to death. His offence was the best the game has ever seen.
It's entirely relevant to the point that I'm arguing, which is that pretty much everyone in the best ever AB team played in the last 10 years.
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@mn5 said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@chris-b said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@mn5 said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@nostrildamus said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@mn5 said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
Steve McDowell as one example could bench 180kg apparently.
But was also plenty handy at judo if I recall correctly.
But according to @Chris-B he’d be ragdolled if he played today.
His All Black profile says he was 102 kgs.
Wait - that might be a picture of Steven Kitschoff...
102kg of muscle. ( if it’s even accurate, please refer to one of @Nepia s earlier posts about weight )
He looked bigger/heavier to me.
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@chris-b said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@mn5 said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@chris-b said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@mn5 said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@nepia said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@chris-b said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@mn5 said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@chris-b said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@taniwharugby Yeah - rugby has evolved.
With possibly a tiny handful of exceptions - the best ever All Blacks have played within the past 10 years.
Guys like Cully, Jonah, JK, Wilson, Bunce, Brooke, M Jones, Fitzy and Hayman to name just a few are more than a tiny handful.
You may be misinterpreting my point.
Cully, Brooke, Jones and Fitzy are all too small to be the best now. They would all be rag-dolled.
JK is from the amateur era - his unusual size for that era would be totally nullified - he'd now be a smallish winger.
Hayman, maybe. Jonah, maybe.
That's a silly way to look at it and makes the exercise pointless, let's just trash this thread now. If playing now all if those three bar maybe Cullen would be bigger (Fitzy is roughly the same size as Coles), and even then I reckon even Cullen would have a bit more explosive muscle (if that's possible).
Also, thinking JKs key ability was his size is just plain silly, yes he had power, but he also had pace and running skill - and he'd be gymed up to fuck if h was playing now.
Does anyone else remember John Drake explaining how they deliberately didn't update their weights back then so the opposition thought they were lighter?
The Auckland guys were all gym junkies well before Rugby went pro which helped them take the Shield on the road and thrash division three teams by cricket scores. Steve McDowell as one example could bench 180kg apparently.
There was a massive jump between the 80s and 90s ( where backs the size of Terry Wright, Craig Green and Warwick Taylor became relics of a bygone age ) but by the mid to late 90s the AB team was stacked with players/athletes who would still smash it in todays environment. I think Scotlands Alan Tait said it best when he went to league in the late 80s ( and was humbled by the fitness/strength requirements ) to when he came back to union in the late 90s ( where he was shocked at how conditioned, strong and powerful his union teammates had become )
Jonah played from 1994 to 2002. George Bridge plays today. Need I say anymore ?
How was Jonah under the high ball? As a defender?
I can remember him getting lambasted for jogging back to balls kicked behind him, but that was probably after his kidney problems really kicked in - so not peak Jonah.
He would still cut it with ball in hand. But, peak RIoane and peak JSavea are pretty likely to be more rounded players and not much of a step down offensively.
Not relevant to this discussion as you were talking about getting “rag dolled”
Jonahs lack of basic skills in some areas have been done to death. His offence was the best the game has ever seen.
It's entirely relevant to the point that I'm arguing, which is that pretty much everyone in the best ever AB team played in the last 10 years.
No, because loads of legends who would still cut it in todays physical game played outside this era. Your 10 year window is ridiculous.
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@act-crusader said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@mn5 said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@nepia said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@chris-b said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@mn5 said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@chris-b said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@taniwharugby Yeah - rugby has evolved.
With possibly a tiny handful of exceptions - the best ever All Blacks have played within the past 10 years.
Guys like Cully, Jonah, JK, Wilson, Bunce, Brooke, M Jones, Fitzy and Hayman to name just a few are more than a tiny handful.
You may be misinterpreting my point.
Cully, Brooke, Jones and Fitzy are all too small to be the best now. They would all be rag-dolled.
JK is from the amateur era - his unusual size for that era would be totally nullified - he'd now be a smallish winger.
Hayman, maybe. Jonah, maybe.
That's a silly way to look at it and makes the exercise pointless, let's just trash this thread now. If playing now all if those three bar maybe Cullen would be bigger (Fitzy is roughly the same size as Coles), and even then I reckon even Cullen would have a bit more explosive muscle (if that's possible).
Also, thinking JKs key ability was his size is just plain silly, yes he had power, but he also had pace and running skill - and he'd be gymed up to fuck if h was playing now.
Does anyone else remember John Drake explaining how they deliberately didn't update their weights back then so the opposition thought they were lighter?
The Auckland guys were all gym junkies well before Rugby went pro which helped them take the Shield on the road and thrash division three teams by cricket scores. Steve McDowell as one example could bench 180kg apparently.
There was a massive jump between the 80s and 90s ( where backs the size of Terry Wright, Craig Green and Warwick Taylor became relics of a bygone age ) but by the mid to late 90s the AB team was stacked with players/athletes who would still smash it in todays environment. I think Scotlands Alan Tait said it best when he went to league in the late 80s ( and was humbled by the fitness/strength requirements ) to when he came back to union in the late 90s ( where he was shocked at how conditioned, strong and powerful his union teammates had become )
Jonah played from 1994 to 2002. George Bridge plays today. Need I say anymore ?
At least George has scored a try against the Boks…
Can I get an Amen.
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@act-crusader said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
At least George has scored a try against the Boks…
Can I get an Amen.When George can score 15 or more tries in a RWC, then there is material worthy of comparison.
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@nostrildamus said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@act-crusader said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
At least George has scored a try against the Boks…
Can I get an Amen.When George can score 15 or more tries in a RWC, then there is material worthy of comparison.
ha ha, I farking lol'd. Was a great call
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@chris-b said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@mn5 said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@chris-b said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@mn5 said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@nepia said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@chris-b said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@mn5 said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@chris-b said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@taniwharugby Yeah - rugby has evolved.
With possibly a tiny handful of exceptions - the best ever All Blacks have played within the past 10 years.
Guys like Cully, Jonah, JK, Wilson, Bunce, Brooke, M Jones, Fitzy and Hayman to name just a few are more than a tiny handful.
You may be misinterpreting my point.
Cully, Brooke, Jones and Fitzy are all too small to be the best now. They would all be rag-dolled.
JK is from the amateur era - his unusual size for that era would be totally nullified - he'd now be a smallish winger.
Hayman, maybe. Jonah, maybe.
That's a silly way to look at it and makes the exercise pointless, let's just trash this thread now. If playing now all if those three bar maybe Cullen would be bigger (Fitzy is roughly the same size as Coles), and even then I reckon even Cullen would have a bit more explosive muscle (if that's possible).
Also, thinking JKs key ability was his size is just plain silly, yes he had power, but he also had pace and running skill - and he'd be gymed up to fuck if h was playing now.
Does anyone else remember John Drake explaining how they deliberately didn't update their weights back then so the opposition thought they were lighter?
The Auckland guys were all gym junkies well before Rugby went pro which helped them take the Shield on the road and thrash division three teams by cricket scores. Steve McDowell as one example could bench 180kg apparently.
There was a massive jump between the 80s and 90s ( where backs the size of Terry Wright, Craig Green and Warwick Taylor became relics of a bygone age ) but by the mid to late 90s the AB team was stacked with players/athletes who would still smash it in todays environment. I think Scotlands Alan Tait said it best when he went to league in the late 80s ( and was humbled by the fitness/strength requirements ) to when he came back to union in the late 90s ( where he was shocked at how conditioned, strong and powerful his union teammates had become )
Jonah played from 1994 to 2002. George Bridge plays today. Need I say anymore ?
How was Jonah under the high ball? As a defender?
I can remember him getting lambasted for jogging back to balls kicked behind him, but that was probably after his kidney problems really kicked in - so not peak Jonah.
He would still cut it with ball in hand. But, peak RIoane and peak JSavea are pretty likely to be more rounded players and not much of a step down offensively.
Not relevant to this discussion as you were talking about getting “rag dolled”
Jonahs lack of basic skills in some areas have been done to death. His offence was the best the game has ever seen.
It's entirely relevant to the point that I'm arguing, which is that pretty much everyone in the best ever AB team played in the last
1050 years.There. That should be all that needs to be said on the matter. I’ve extended my range just so some old timer can wank on about Pinetree but this should exclude any jockey sized midfielders from days gone by who would ( as you allude to ) get rag dolled.
Good Day Sir.
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@mn5 said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@chris-b said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@mn5 said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@chris-b said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@mn5 said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@nepia said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@chris-b said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@mn5 said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@chris-b said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@taniwharugby Yeah - rugby has evolved.
With possibly a tiny handful of exceptions - the best ever All Blacks have played within the past 10 years.
Guys like Cully, Jonah, JK, Wilson, Bunce, Brooke, M Jones, Fitzy and Hayman to name just a few are more than a tiny handful.
You may be misinterpreting my point.
Cully, Brooke, Jones and Fitzy are all too small to be the best now. They would all be rag-dolled.
JK is from the amateur era - his unusual size for that era would be totally nullified - he'd now be a smallish winger.
Hayman, maybe. Jonah, maybe.
That's a silly way to look at it and makes the exercise pointless, let's just trash this thread now. If playing now all if those three bar maybe Cullen would be bigger (Fitzy is roughly the same size as Coles), and even then I reckon even Cullen would have a bit more explosive muscle (if that's possible).
Also, thinking JKs key ability was his size is just plain silly, yes he had power, but he also had pace and running skill - and he'd be gymed up to fuck if h was playing now.
Does anyone else remember John Drake explaining how they deliberately didn't update their weights back then so the opposition thought they were lighter?
The Auckland guys were all gym junkies well before Rugby went pro which helped them take the Shield on the road and thrash division three teams by cricket scores. Steve McDowell as one example could bench 180kg apparently.
There was a massive jump between the 80s and 90s ( where backs the size of Terry Wright, Craig Green and Warwick Taylor became relics of a bygone age ) but by the mid to late 90s the AB team was stacked with players/athletes who would still smash it in todays environment. I think Scotlands Alan Tait said it best when he went to league in the late 80s ( and was humbled by the fitness/strength requirements ) to when he came back to union in the late 90s ( where he was shocked at how conditioned, strong and powerful his union teammates had become )
Jonah played from 1994 to 2002. George Bridge plays today. Need I say anymore ?
How was Jonah under the high ball? As a defender?
I can remember him getting lambasted for jogging back to balls kicked behind him, but that was probably after his kidney problems really kicked in - so not peak Jonah.
He would still cut it with ball in hand. But, peak RIoane and peak JSavea are pretty likely to be more rounded players and not much of a step down offensively.
Not relevant to this discussion as you were talking about getting “rag dolled”
Jonahs lack of basic skills in some areas have been done to death. His offence was the best the game has ever seen.
It's entirely relevant to the point that I'm arguing, which is that pretty much everyone in the best ever AB team played in the last 10 years.
No, because loads of legends who would still cut it in todays physical game played outside this era. Your 10 year window is ridiculous.
I'm only considering a tiny handful for my team.
I'm going with:
Ben Smith
Rieko Ioane
Conrad Smith (I'll consider ALB)
Ma'a Nonu
Julian Savea
Dan Carter
Aaron Smith
Kieran Read
Richie McCaw
Jerome Kaino
Sam Whitelock
Brodie Retallick
Owen Franks (though I'll consider Hayman).
Dane Coles
Tony Woodcock -
@mn5 said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@chris-b said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@mn5 said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@chris-b said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@mn5 said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@nepia said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@chris-b said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@mn5 said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@chris-b said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@taniwharugby Yeah - rugby has evolved.
With possibly a tiny handful of exceptions - the best ever All Blacks have played within the past 10 years.
Guys like Cully, Jonah, JK, Wilson, Bunce, Brooke, M Jones, Fitzy and Hayman to name just a few are more than a tiny handful.
You may be misinterpreting my point.
Cully, Brooke, Jones and Fitzy are all too small to be the best now. They would all be rag-dolled.
JK is from the amateur era - his unusual size for that era would be totally nullified - he'd now be a smallish winger.
Hayman, maybe. Jonah, maybe.
That's a silly way to look at it and makes the exercise pointless, let's just trash this thread now. If playing now all if those three bar maybe Cullen would be bigger (Fitzy is roughly the same size as Coles), and even then I reckon even Cullen would have a bit more explosive muscle (if that's possible).
Also, thinking JKs key ability was his size is just plain silly, yes he had power, but he also had pace and running skill - and he'd be gymed up to fuck if h was playing now.
Does anyone else remember John Drake explaining how they deliberately didn't update their weights back then so the opposition thought they were lighter?
The Auckland guys were all gym junkies well before Rugby went pro which helped them take the Shield on the road and thrash division three teams by cricket scores. Steve McDowell as one example could bench 180kg apparently.
There was a massive jump between the 80s and 90s ( where backs the size of Terry Wright, Craig Green and Warwick Taylor became relics of a bygone age ) but by the mid to late 90s the AB team was stacked with players/athletes who would still smash it in todays environment. I think Scotlands Alan Tait said it best when he went to league in the late 80s ( and was humbled by the fitness/strength requirements ) to when he came back to union in the late 90s ( where he was shocked at how conditioned, strong and powerful his union teammates had become )
Jonah played from 1994 to 2002. George Bridge plays today. Need I say anymore ?
How was Jonah under the high ball? As a defender?
I can remember him getting lambasted for jogging back to balls kicked behind him, but that was probably after his kidney problems really kicked in - so not peak Jonah.
He would still cut it with ball in hand. But, peak RIoane and peak JSavea are pretty likely to be more rounded players and not much of a step down offensively.
Not relevant to this discussion as you were talking about getting “rag dolled”
Jonahs lack of basic skills in some areas have been done to death. His offence was the best the game has ever seen.
It's entirely relevant to the point that I'm arguing, which is that pretty much everyone in the best ever AB team played in the last
1050 years.There. That should be all that needs to be said on the matter. I’ve extended my range just so some old timer can wank on about Pinetree but this should exclude any jockey sized midfielders from days gone by who would ( as you allude to ) get rag dolled.
Good Day Sir.
If you played Pinetree at 6 (where players his size typically play these days) he might pretend to be a ragdog... But then he'd be pulling your leg.
Ouch.
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@chris-b said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@mn5 said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@chris-b said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@mn5 said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@chris-b said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@mn5 said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@nepia said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@chris-b said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@mn5 said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@chris-b said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@taniwharugby Yeah - rugby has evolved.
With possibly a tiny handful of exceptions - the best ever All Blacks have played within the past 10 years.
Guys like Cully, Jonah, JK, Wilson, Bunce, Brooke, M Jones, Fitzy and Hayman to name just a few are more than a tiny handful.
You may be misinterpreting my point.
Cully, Brooke, Jones and Fitzy are all too small to be the best now. They would all be rag-dolled.
JK is from the amateur era - his unusual size for that era would be totally nullified - he'd now be a smallish winger.
Hayman, maybe. Jonah, maybe.
That's a silly way to look at it and makes the exercise pointless, let's just trash this thread now. If playing now all if those three bar maybe Cullen would be bigger (Fitzy is roughly the same size as Coles), and even then I reckon even Cullen would have a bit more explosive muscle (if that's possible).
Also, thinking JKs key ability was his size is just plain silly, yes he had power, but he also had pace and running skill - and he'd be gymed up to fuck if h was playing now.
Does anyone else remember John Drake explaining how they deliberately didn't update their weights back then so the opposition thought they were lighter?
The Auckland guys were all gym junkies well before Rugby went pro which helped them take the Shield on the road and thrash division three teams by cricket scores. Steve McDowell as one example could bench 180kg apparently.
There was a massive jump between the 80s and 90s ( where backs the size of Terry Wright, Craig Green and Warwick Taylor became relics of a bygone age ) but by the mid to late 90s the AB team was stacked with players/athletes who would still smash it in todays environment. I think Scotlands Alan Tait said it best when he went to league in the late 80s ( and was humbled by the fitness/strength requirements ) to when he came back to union in the late 90s ( where he was shocked at how conditioned, strong and powerful his union teammates had become )
Jonah played from 1994 to 2002. George Bridge plays today. Need I say anymore ?
How was Jonah under the high ball? As a defender?
I can remember him getting lambasted for jogging back to balls kicked behind him, but that was probably after his kidney problems really kicked in - so not peak Jonah.
He would still cut it with ball in hand. But, peak RIoane and peak JSavea are pretty likely to be more rounded players and not much of a step down offensively.
Not relevant to this discussion as you were talking about getting “rag dolled”
Jonahs lack of basic skills in some areas have been done to death. His offence was the best the game has ever seen.
It's entirely relevant to the point that I'm arguing, which is that pretty much everyone in the best ever AB team played in the last 10 years.
No, because loads of legends who would still cut it in todays physical game played outside this era. Your 10 year window is ridiculous.
I'm only considering a tiny handful for my team.
I'm going with:
Ben Smith
Rieko Ioane
Conrad Smith (I'll consider ALB)
Ma'a Nonu
Julian Savea
Dan Carter
Aaron Smith
Kieran Read
Richie McCaw
Jerome Kaino
Sam Whitelock
Brodie Retallick
Owen Franks (though I'll consider Hayman).
Dane Coles
Tony WoodcockToo much big match temperament, Too physical, Too abrasive and Too damn skillful at 12, give me Bert Cooke any day. 60 odd kg in the midfield would provide a compelling point of difference in that team.
Other than that spot on.
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@chris-b said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@mn5 said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@chris-b said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@mn5 said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@nepia said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@chris-b said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@mn5 said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@chris-b said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@taniwharugby Yeah - rugby has evolved.
With possibly a tiny handful of exceptions - the best ever All Blacks have played within the past 10 years.
Guys like Cully, Jonah, JK, Wilson, Bunce, Brooke, M Jones, Fitzy and Hayman to name just a few are more than a tiny handful.
You may be misinterpreting my point.
Cully, Brooke, Jones and Fitzy are all too small to be the best now. They would all be rag-dolled.
JK is from the amateur era - his unusual size for that era would be totally nullified - he'd now be a smallish winger.
Hayman, maybe. Jonah, maybe.
That's a silly way to look at it and makes the exercise pointless, let's just trash this thread now. If playing now all if those three bar maybe Cullen would be bigger (Fitzy is roughly the same size as Coles), and even then I reckon even Cullen would have a bit more explosive muscle (if that's possible).
Also, thinking JKs key ability was his size is just plain silly, yes he had power, but he also had pace and running skill - and he'd be gymed up to fuck if h was playing now.
Does anyone else remember John Drake explaining how they deliberately didn't update their weights back then so the opposition thought they were lighter?
The Auckland guys were all gym junkies well before Rugby went pro which helped them take the Shield on the road and thrash division three teams by cricket scores. Steve McDowell as one example could bench 180kg apparently.
There was a massive jump between the 80s and 90s ( where backs the size of Terry Wright, Craig Green and Warwick Taylor became relics of a bygone age ) but by the mid to late 90s the AB team was stacked with players/athletes who would still smash it in todays environment. I think Scotlands Alan Tait said it best when he went to league in the late 80s ( and was humbled by the fitness/strength requirements ) to when he came back to union in the late 90s ( where he was shocked at how conditioned, strong and powerful his union teammates had become )
Jonah played from 1994 to 2002. George Bridge plays today. Need I say anymore ?
How was Jonah under the high ball? As a defender?
I can remember him getting lambasted for jogging back to balls kicked behind him, but that was probably after his kidney problems really kicked in - so not peak Jonah.
He would still cut it with ball in hand. But, peak RIoane and peak JSavea are pretty likely to be more rounded players and not much of a step down offensively.
Not relevant to this discussion as you were talking about getting “rag dolled”
Jonahs lack of basic skills in some areas have been done to death. His offence was the best the game has ever seen.
It's entirely relevant to the point that I'm arguing, which is that pretty much everyone in the best ever AB team played in the last 10 years.
Isn't the question to ask, if x was born 20 years later, would he still be an all time great AB? And in the case of Jonah, the answer is obviously "yes" and I think it would be for many other all-time greats we are discussing here. What you need to remember is that the guys in the last 10 years only had the games and abilities they did because of the feats of the guys that came before them and the way that the game and the various positions have developed as a result - standing on the shoulders of giants and all that. Yes, Savea or RIoane may have more "well-rounded" games, but Jonah didn't play in era where wingers were peppered with box kicks for 80 minutes - in some ways that tactic can probably be attributed to guys like Jonah and other dangerous back 3 players as a way of nullifying the counter-attacking threat from kicks.
Anyway, in the same way that Savea developed an ability under the high ball to deal with the aerial threat, there's nothing to suggest that Jonah, JK, Goldie or any other winger would not have been able to develop that skill had it been required. Truth is, at least 2 of these 3 guys changed the way we see the wing position and who we select to play there. You just can't say that about either Savea or RIoane and others who played in the last 10 years (obvious individuals such as McCaw, Carter and Nonu aside).
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@junior said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
What you need to remember is that the guys in the last 10 years only had the games and abilities they did because of the feats of the guys that came before them and the way that the game and the various positions have developed as a result - standing on the shoulders of giants and all that.
Probably not so much me who needs to remember it as those fuckers who piss off overseas on massive contracts with "our" intellectual property - they're standing on the shoulders of midgets (most of us) as well.
Can't really disagree with your post and I've been winding up @MN5 a little bit. But, if you're dealing in absolute fact, there's no doubt I'm right. And the 15 guys I've picked will all get supplanted in the next 20 years.
My point is pretty boring - it's "best" as opposed to "greatest".
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@chris-b said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@junior said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
What you need to remember is that the guys in the last 10 years only had the games and abilities they did because of the feats of the guys that came before them and the way that the game and the various positions have developed as a result - standing on the shoulders of giants and all that.
Probably not so much me who needs to remember it as those fuckers who piss off overseas on massive contracts with "our" intellectual property - they're standing on the shoulders of midgets (most of us) as well.
Can't really disagree with your post and I've been winding up @MN5 a little bit. But, if you're dealing in absolute fact, there's no doubt I'm right. And the 15 guys I've picked will all get supplanted in the next 20 years.
My point is pretty boring - it's "best" as opposed to "greatest".
I get the point that point that, in a raw like for like comparison, even George Bridge would run rings around Ron Jarden...
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@mn5 said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@chris-b said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@mn5 said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@chris-b said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@mn5 said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@nepia said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@chris-b said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@mn5 said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@chris-b said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@taniwharugby Yeah - rugby has evolved.
With possibly a tiny handful of exceptions - the best ever All Blacks have played within the past 10 years.
Guys like Cully, Jonah, JK, Wilson, Bunce, Brooke, M Jones, Fitzy and Hayman to name just a few are more than a tiny handful.
You may be misinterpreting my point.
Cully, Brooke, Jones and Fitzy are all too small to be the best now. They would all be rag-dolled.
JK is from the amateur era - his unusual size for that era would be totally nullified - he'd now be a smallish winger.
Hayman, maybe. Jonah, maybe.
That's a silly way to look at it and makes the exercise pointless, let's just trash this thread now. If playing now all if those three bar maybe Cullen would be bigger (Fitzy is roughly the same size as Coles), and even then I reckon even Cullen would have a bit more explosive muscle (if that's possible).
Also, thinking JKs key ability was his size is just plain silly, yes he had power, but he also had pace and running skill - and he'd be gymed up to fuck if h was playing now.
Does anyone else remember John Drake explaining how they deliberately didn't update their weights back then so the opposition thought they were lighter?
The Auckland guys were all gym junkies well before Rugby went pro which helped them take the Shield on the road and thrash division three teams by cricket scores. Steve McDowell as one example could bench 180kg apparently.
There was a massive jump between the 80s and 90s ( where backs the size of Terry Wright, Craig Green and Warwick Taylor became relics of a bygone age ) but by the mid to late 90s the AB team was stacked with players/athletes who would still smash it in todays environment. I think Scotlands Alan Tait said it best when he went to league in the late 80s ( and was humbled by the fitness/strength requirements ) to when he came back to union in the late 90s ( where he was shocked at how conditioned, strong and powerful his union teammates had become )
Jonah played from 1994 to 2002. George Bridge plays today. Need I say anymore ?
How was Jonah under the high ball? As a defender?
I can remember him getting lambasted for jogging back to balls kicked behind him, but that was probably after his kidney problems really kicked in - so not peak Jonah.
He would still cut it with ball in hand. But, peak RIoane and peak JSavea are pretty likely to be more rounded players and not much of a step down offensively.
Not relevant to this discussion as you were talking about getting “rag dolled”
Jonahs lack of basic skills in some areas have been done to death. His offence was the best the game has ever seen.
It's entirely relevant to the point that I'm arguing, which is that pretty much everyone in the best ever AB team played in the last
1050 years.There. That should be all that needs to be said on the matter. I’ve extended my range just so some old timer can wank on about Pinetree but this should exclude any jockey sized midfielders from days gone by who would ( as you allude to ) get rag dolled.
Good Day Sir.
My Dad always reckoned that Maurice Brownlie chap was pretty special.....
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@mn5 said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
There. That should be all that needs to be said on the matter. I’ve extended my range just so some old timer can wank on about Pinetree but this should exclude any jockey sized midfielders from days gone by who would ( as you allude to ) get rag dolled.
Play the game in Pinetree's era, and transport the players back. See how they cope with getting smacked in teh face, playing with heavy boots, and leather balls that are like bars of soap. Honestly, it was a different sport back then. The mental toughness of the old timers was next level though, Meads is an AB in any era, just a monster
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@nzzp said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@mn5 said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
There. That should be all that needs to be said on the matter. I’ve extended my range just so some old timer can wank on about Pinetree but this should exclude any jockey sized midfielders from days gone by who would ( as you allude to ) get rag dolled.
Play the game in Pinetree's era, and transport the players back. See how they cope with getting smacked in teh face, playing with heavy boots, and leather balls that are like bars of soap. Honestly, it was a different sport back then. The mental toughness of the old timers was next level though, Meads is an AB in any era, just a monster
I mean hell, watch any game before the professional era and its a completely different sport.
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@nzzp said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
@mn5 said in AB Greatest 15 Rugby Pass:
There. That should be all that needs to be said on the matter. I’ve extended my range just so some old timer can wank on about Pinetree but this should exclude any jockey sized midfielders from days gone by who would ( as you allude to ) get rag dolled.
Play the game in Pinetree's era, and transport the players back. See how they cope with getting smacked in teh face, playing with heavy boots, and leather balls that are like bars of soap. Honestly, it was a different sport back then. The mental toughness of the old timers was next level though, Meads is an AB in any era, just a monster
Meads would be a 6 today or even a 12 - he had the skills for it. And he'd probably be no.1 on the team sheet or thereabouts.
