Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years
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@No-Quarter said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:
As a slightly younger poster one thing that has surprised me is Fitzy making the cut for a lot of people. Not that he doesn't deserve to be there, but I never really watched him play as he retired when I started watching. What was so good about his play that puts him in our top 5 all time lists?
Was excellent at all his core jobs, automatic thrower, led from the front, became probably our best ever captain (was great with the refs)
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@No-Quarter said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:
I know Lomu wasn't a complete player by any stretch, but his running game was so much better than anyone else that has played the game it's not even funny. Without exaggerating he was probably about 5 times more effective with ball in hand than any other player. People had nightmares about trying to defend against him. The combination of pace and power he had were basically inhuman. Has to be in the top 5 given the way he could break games apart with such ease.
For many years the ABs offensive strategy was "get the ball to Jonah". Still one of the few rugby players referred to by his first name only
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@No-Quarter said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:
I know Lomu wasn't a complete player by any stretch, but his running game was so much better than anyone else that has played the game it's not even funny. Without exaggerating he was probably about 5 times more effective with ball in hand than any other player. People had nightmares about trying to defend against him. The combination of pace and power he had were basically inhuman. Has to be in the top 5 given the way he could break games apart with such ease.
Also, and I think @mariner4life summed it up well earlier, being the "greatest" or even a "great" All Black goes far beyond mere rugby playing ability (although that's most of it). It also includes what impact he had on the jersey and the legacy - did he add to it and, if so, how much? Jonah's impact on the jersey and the legacy are almost - almost - unparalleled. He's the benchmark by which we judge all of our wingers - he's why no-one rates George Bridge,
You've also got to say that the guy made huge physical sacrifices for the jersey. We quite rightly talk of McCaw's foot, Fitzy's ear, Pinetree's arm and Buck's testicle. But, let's not forget that Jonah played with a life-threatening and debilitating kidney disease and made several comebacks are bouts of dialysis and a fucking kidney transplant.
Anyone who doesn't have in in their Top 5 - because he was slow on the turn or some other nit-picking bullshit - can seriously go and eat a bag full of dicks!
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@junior said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:
@No-Quarter said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:
I know Lomu wasn't a complete player by any stretch, but his running game was so much better than anyone else that has played the game it's not even funny. Without exaggerating he was probably about 5 times more effective with ball in hand than any other player. People had nightmares about trying to defend against him. The combination of pace and power he had were basically inhuman. Has to be in the top 5 given the way he could break games apart with such ease.
Also, and I think @mariner4life summed it up well earlier, being the "greatest" or even a "great" All Black goes far beyond mere rugby playing ability (although that's most of it). It also includes what impact he had on the jersey and the legacy - did he add to it and, if so, how much? Jonah's impact on the jersey and the legacy are almost - almost - unparalleled. He's the benchmark by which we judge all of our wingers - he's why no-one rates George Bridge,
You've also got to say that the guy made huge physical sacrifices for the jersey. We quite rightly talk of McCaw's foot, Fitzy's ear, Pinetree's arm and Buck's testicle. But, let's not forget that Jonah played with a life-threatening and debilitating kidney disease and made several comebacks are bouts of dialysis and a fucking kidney transplant.
Anyone who doesn't have in in their Top 5 - because he was slow on the turn or some other nit-picking bullshit - can seriously go and eat a bag full of dicks!
1000%
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@No-Quarter said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:
As a slightly younger poster one thing that has surprised me is Fitzy making the cut for a lot of people. Not that he doesn't deserve to be there, but I never really watched him play as he retired when I started watching. What was so good about his play that puts him in our top 5 all time lists?
In addition to what others have posted, his longevity was very impressive especially as a captain. He wasn’t everyone’s cup of tea and I had plenty of Aussie and Pom mates that thought he epitomised “All Black arrogance”, but they knew he was damn good as a player and leader. He was a pro even before the game went pro.
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@ACT-Crusader said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:
@bayimports said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:
Just curious but some of the 100 club didn’t make even a comment, didn’t see Woodcock or Mils even get a mention. Mils I get, but does Tony get a mention?
Special shout out to the greatest AB centurian that hasn’t scored a try
Tony won you a WC
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@MiketheSnow said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:
@ACT-Crusader said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:
@bayimports said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:
Just curious but some of the 100 club didn’t make even a comment, didn’t see Woodcock or Mils even get a mention. Mils I get, but does Tony get a mention?
Special shout out to the greatest AB centurian that hasn’t scored a try
Tony won you a WC
He's referring to Franks.
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@gt12 said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:
@MiketheSnow said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:
@ACT-Crusader said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:
@bayimports said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:
Just curious but some of the 100 club didn’t make even a comment, didn’t see Woodcock or Mils even get a mention. Mils I get, but does Tony get a mention?
Special shout out to the greatest AB centurian that hasn’t scored a try
Tony won you a WC
He's referring to Franks.
Gotcha
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@MiketheSnow said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:
@ACT-Crusader said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:
@bayimports said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:
Just curious but some of the 100 club didn’t make even a comment, didn’t see Woodcock or Mils even get a mention. Mils I get, but does Tony get a mention?
Special shout out to the greatest AB centurian that hasn’t scored a try
Tony won you a WC
Probably the best set piece try scored in a RWC final
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@junior said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:
@No-Quarter said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:
I know Lomu wasn't a complete player by any stretch, but his running game was so much better than anyone else that has played the game it's not even funny. Without exaggerating he was probably about 5 times more effective with ball in hand than any other player. People had nightmares about trying to defend against him. The combination of pace and power he had were basically inhuman. Has to be in the top 5 given the way he could break games apart with such ease.
Also, and I think @mariner4life summed it up well earlier, being the "greatest" or even a "great" All Black goes far beyond mere rugby playing ability (although that's most of it). It also includes what impact he had on the jersey and the legacy - did he add to it and, if so, how much? Jonah's impact on the jersey and the legacy are almost - almost - unparalleled. He's the benchmark by which we judge all of our wingers - he's why no-one rates George Bridge,
You've also got to say that the guy made huge physical sacrifices for the jersey. We quite rightly talk of McCaw's foot, Fitzy's ear, Pinetree's arm and Buck's testicle. But, let's not forget that Jonah played with a life-threatening and debilitating kidney disease and made several comebacks are bouts of dialysis and a fucking kidney transplant.
Anyone who doesn't have in in their Top 5 - because he was slow on the turn or some other nit-picking bullshit - can seriously go and eat a bag full of dicks!
testify brother
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@ARHS had heard stories from a couple if guys in the blues around that time just little things Fitzy and Zinny did like trying to get players not to put hands in hips or head, jog to every set peice no matter how fucked you were, because these were the little things you do so the opposition never know if you are buggared.
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@No-Quarter said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:
As a slightly younger poster one thing that has surprised me is Fitzy making the cut for a lot of people. Not that he doesn't deserve to be there, but I never really watched him play as he retired when I started watching. What was so good about his play that puts him in our top 5 all time lists?
Asshole Millennial 🖕
Fitzy was a favourite of mine from when he caught my eye doing his famous seagull routine in the "forgotten" Bledisloe Cup game of 1987 (I would kill to get a copy of that game). He kept the incumbent AB captain out of the lineup during the 87 RWC and that alone should give a decent indication of how good he was. And he was awesome almost 10 years later when we won our first series in SA.
He was in many ways handed a shit sandwich with the captaincy in 92 but did a great job and became our benchmark for leadership until McCaw grew into the position.
Coles seems to be getting the nod in all these recent greatest rankings but I'd take First over him in a heartbeat.
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:
Coles seems to be getting the nod in all these recent greatest rankings but I'd take First over him in a heartbeat.
Me too, and I think Coles is bloody good.
The only issue with Fitzy was when he was injured and he should have just let Norm play but instead him and Hart decided to be twats.
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:
@No-Quarter said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:
As a slightly younger poster one thing that has surprised me is Fitzy making the cut for a lot of people. Not that he doesn't deserve to be there, but I never really watched him play as he retired when I started watching. What was so good about his play that puts him in our top 5 all time lists?
Asshole Millennial 🖕
Fitzy was a favourite of mine from when he caught my eye doing his famous seagull routine in the "forgotten" Bledisloe Cup game of 1987 (I would kill to get a copy of that game). He kept the incumbent AB captain out of the lineup during the 87 RWC and that alone should give a decent indication of how good he was. And he was awesome almost 10 years later when we won our first series in SA.
He was in many ways handed a shit sandwich with the captaincy in 92 but did a great job and became our benchmark for leadership until McCaw grew into the position.
Coles seems to be getting the nod in all these recent greatest rankings but I'd take First over him in a heartbeat.
Fitzy is another one who’s impact on the jersey goes far beyond being a good lineout thrower and scrummager. Of course he did those things, but he set the modern benchmark by which all subsequent AB captains were judged until McCaw then raised the bar. His referee manipulation and the way he wound up our opponents was without peer. And of course his leadership in 1996 will never be forgotten. Has also done a lot for the AB “brand” since retirement (even though he’s basically a Pom nowadays).
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:
@No-Quarter said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:
As a slightly younger poster one thing that has surprised me is Fitzy making the cut for a lot of people. Not that he doesn't deserve to be there, but I never really watched him play as he retired when I started watching. What was so good about his play that puts him in our top 5 all time lists?
Asshole Millennial 🖕
I needed that laugh. Thank you.
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@mariner4life said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:
Mehrts was the perfect 10 for that side, again a running game to stop players drifting off him.
If Mehrts was the perfect 10 for that side why did they look better in 1997 when Spencer took the 10 jersey?
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From an outsider and in no particular order: Lomu, Carter, McCaw, Jones M, Fitzpatrick.
All stand out players, had either longevity or real mental durability to overcome serious injury or illness. Players that added to that aura rather than just be part of it and guys that really made a difference when it really mattered. (95, 97, 07 glossed over).
They would all walk into any team of any era.
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@KiwiMurph said in Five Greatest ABs of the past 50 years:
That 96-97 side did pretty bloody well without Merhts too - when Carlos was at 10 or Preston etc.
And Culhane, who played in tests 1 and 2 in 1996.
