Five Greatest Black Caps of the Past 50 years
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@MN5 First Class Cricket in England in the 70's was as tough as Test cricket. There were only 6 test nations and most of the decade three of them were shit. Richards shone. Better judges than us have him as an all time great of the game so to say he isn't one of the top 5 SA players of the past 50 years is a bit too much of a stretch for me.
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@dogmeat said in Five Greatest Black Caps of the Past 50 years:
@MN5 First Class Cricket in England in the 70's was as tough as Test cricket. There were only 6 test nations and most of the decade three of them were shit. Richards shone. Better judges than us have him as an all time great of the game so to say he isn't one of the top 5 SA players of the past 50 years is a bit too much of a stretch for me.
I think it’s fair to say he would have been a test great, I’ve read and heard enough to know this but again, he didn’t do it. Agree to disagree I suppose.
On that point though Hadlee as an example dominated County cricket in the 70s and 80s averaging under 20 with the ball and over 30 with the bat. David Gower barely averaged 40 at first class level, 44 at test level.....so it’s not always a completely accurate yardstick.
England wanked on about Hick after his county exploits but he became nothing more than a bog standard test batsman
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@MN5 Yeah a lot of good players miss out. Ambrose could easily go on that list too.
Nah, no regrets on picking those guys from the 70s and 80s in the SA list. It's one of the great tragedies that the world didn't get to see much of the at international level. Them and the Windies would have had some huge battles if it weren't for their ban.
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@African-Monkey said in Five Greatest Black Caps of the Past 50 years:
@MN5 Yeah a lot of good players miss out. Ambrose could easily go on that list too.
Nah, no regrets on picking those guys from the 70s and 80s in the SA list. It's one of the great tragedies that the world didn't get to see much of the at international level. Them and the Windies would have had some huge battles if it weren't for their ban.
Windies of the last 50 years could possibly expand to 10 I reckon, so on that basis I'd go.....
Richards, Lara, Lloyd, Ambrose, Garner, Marshall, Walsh, Holding, Chanderpaul, Sobers ( possibly lucky as he only played for four years in the 70s )
Then I guess you have the "very goods" ie Richardson, Greenidge, Haynes, Bishop, Croft, Roberts, Dujon etc. I suppose what made them awesome ( and Australia in the 2000s ) was that every single player was either "Great" or at least "very good"
For point of reference I think Paddles and KW are our only true "Greats". Ever.
Crowe ( and I know this irks a few ), Taylor, C Cairns, Turner are "very good"
DV ? either "good" or "very good"....compelling arguements either way. Our best ever spinner undoubtedly but that's a pretty shallow puddle, not even a pool.
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@Siam said in Five Greatest Black Caps of the Past 50 years:
@Crucial said in Five Greatest Black Caps of the Past 50 years:
Tests:
M Crowe
KW
R Taylor
HadleeConsidering Turner (but then you'd also have to consider Rigor who has a similar record), Reid (not enough tests?), Bond (not enough tests? Clearly our best strike rate), Baz (not our best keeper and also not among the best bats, but as a bat/keeper? up there). Vettori or Fleming as most test contributions. It's quite hard.
If I apply the criteria of who would be is discussion for a spot in a world XI? Def the ones named plus maybe Bond, maybe Watling (although his stats are very good he would probably be 5th or 6th choice behind much stronger candidates like Dhoni and Gilchrist.)
@MN5 said in Five Greatest Black Caps of the Past 50 years:
@NTA said in Five Greatest Black Caps of the Past 50 years:
@Crucial said in Five Greatest Black Caps of the Past 50 years:
Test? ODI? Seperate lists?
Mate just try to get to 5 first
You wouldn’t be so cocky if the A stood for Afghanistan.
Fuck me, some legends would miss out on the top five aussies though.
Ponting wouldn’t make my team just as one example.
He would if 'A' stood for asshole.
Mate, who do you think was a better keeper. Focussing on just that I can't recall Baz dropping many, Parore did, but maybe fatguts commentator was the tidiest of all?
Baz was an incredible keeper in his prime. So quick on his feet and super athletic, I'm not sure I've actually seen any better than him especially against the quicks, taking catches down leg that he had no business being anywhere near. Back gave out pretty early on though which was a shame.
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@MN5 said in Five Greatest Black Caps of the Past 50 years:
@dogmeat said in Five Greatest Black Caps of the Past 50 years:
@MN5 First Class Cricket in England in the 70's was as tough as Test cricket. There were only 6 test nations and most of the decade three of them were shit. Richards shone. Better judges than us have him as an all time great of the game so to say he isn't one of the top 5 SA players of the past 50 years is a bit too much of a stretch for me.
I think it’s fair to say he would have been a test great, I’ve read and heard enough to know this but again, he didn’t do it. Agree to disagree I suppose.
On that point though Hadlee as an example dominated County cricket in the 70s and 80s averaging under 20 with the ball and over 30 with the bat. David Gower barely averaged 40 at first class level, 44 at test level.....so it’s not always a completely accurate yardstick.
*England wanked on about Hick after his county exploits but he became nothing more than a bog standard test batsman
Hick was a real gun at County level in his earlier days. Just phenomenal. He had a bad test start v the Windies who had specifically targeted him (fairly I might add). Thereafter he was handled appallingly by England and not only never really made it at test level but his County form also became very erratic. One of several wasted opportunities for England around that time.
Anyway my top 5 England players over the last 50 years?
Underwood, Botham, Cook, Anderson, Pieterson.
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@Catogrande said in Five Greatest Black Caps of the Past 50 years:
@MN5 said in Five Greatest Black Caps of the Past 50 years:
@dogmeat said in Five Greatest Black Caps of the Past 50 years:
@MN5 First Class Cricket in England in the 70's was as tough as Test cricket. There were only 6 test nations and most of the decade three of them were shit. Richards shone. Better judges than us have him as an all time great of the game so to say he isn't one of the top 5 SA players of the past 50 years is a bit too much of a stretch for me.
I think it’s fair to say he would have been a test great, I’ve read and heard enough to know this but again, he didn’t do it. Agree to disagree I suppose.
On that point though Hadlee as an example dominated County cricket in the 70s and 80s averaging under 20 with the ball and over 30 with the bat. David Gower barely averaged 40 at first class level, 44 at test level.....so it’s not always a completely accurate yardstick.
*England wanked on about Hick after his county exploits but he became nothing more than a bog standard test batsman
Hick was a real gun at County level in his earlier days. Just phenomenal. He had a bad test start v the Windies who had specifically targeted him (fairly I might add). Thereafter he was handled appallingly by England and not only never really made it at test level but his County form also became very erratic. One of several wasted opportunities for England around that time.
Anyway my top 5 England players over the last 50 years?
Underwood, Botham, Cook, Anderson, Pieterson.
Pietersen batted beautifully and made it look so easy. It’s a shame the average dipped a bit towards the end of his career.
A personal favourite of mine was also Alec Stewart. One of the first keeper batsmen ? He was a decent player.
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@MN5 said in Five Greatest Black Caps of the Past 50 years:
@dogmeat said in Five Greatest Black Caps of the Past 50 years:
@MN5 said in Five Greatest Black Caps of the Past 50 years:
Only Warne unquestionably makes your top tier in my opinion. The others are all greats but McGrath > Lillee stands out the most in that bunch.
You're showing your age.
@MN5 said in Five Greatest Black Caps of the Past 50 years:
The SA guys you picked had massive first class records but surely you can find a few from recent times ?
Richards and Pollock are two of the greatest of all time from any country. The fact that their careers were only at the beginning of the qualification period is irrelevant. Do think your right about Clive Rice though.
How is it irrelevant? it’s not their fault obviously but I’d still rate them as ‘could have been’. Barry Richards played FOUR tests !?!?!
There’s a number of players who dominated first class but didn’t do the same at test level. Look at Graeme Hick and Mark Ramprakash.
True enough. Michael Bevan had a first class average of 57 but a test average of 29.
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@Catogrande Alan Knott
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Five Greatest Black Caps of the Past 50 years:
@MN5 said in Five Greatest Black Caps of the Past 50 years:
@dogmeat said in Five Greatest Black Caps of the Past 50 years:
@MN5 said in Five Greatest Black Caps of the Past 50 years:
Only Warne unquestionably makes your top tier in my opinion. The others are all greats but McGrath > Lillee stands out the most in that bunch.
You're showing your age.
@MN5 said in Five Greatest Black Caps of the Past 50 years:
The SA guys you picked had massive first class records but surely you can find a few from recent times ?
Richards and Pollock are two of the greatest of all time from any country. The fact that their careers were only at the beginning of the qualification period is irrelevant. Do think your right about Clive Rice though.
How is it irrelevant? it’s not their fault obviously but I’d still rate them as ‘could have been’. Barry Richards played FOUR tests !?!?!
There’s a number of players who dominated first class but didn’t do the same at test level. Look at Graeme Hick and Mark Ramprakash.
True enough. Michael Bevan had a first class average of 57 but a test average of 29.
Munro has a first class average above 50 and he is so far away from a test standard batsman it's not even funny.
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@Chris-B said in Five Greatest Black Caps of the Past 50 years:
I didn't add him as I'm sure he reads this forum and he will no doubt select his top 5 thus:
Boycott, Boycott, Boycott, Boycott, Trueman (just 'was that needs a bloody bowler in there sooomewhere)!
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@Godder said in Five Greatest Black Caps of the Past 50 years:
@Catogrande Alan Knott
He was close to my selection.
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@dogmeat said in Five Greatest Black Caps of the Past 50 years:
Far from my favourite player but I think it has to be Turner. Average of 47 when there were no muppets.
Absolutely. I was watching an interview with John Wright on Sky earlier in the week and he says Turner and Crowe were far and away the best NZ batsmen he played with.
@African-Monkey Yes to Clive Rice. His first class stats at Notts are phenomenal.
