Who is to blame?
-
@Bovidae said in Who is to blame?:
@No-Quarter said in Who is to blame?:
In terms of cards we came out better off. Reece committed an obvious professional foul on our 22 in the first half, just flopping on the ball and hanging onto it to stop them clearing. Similar to Koroibete but probably worse and got away with just a penalty.
I said before I'm not a fan of the card happy refs but it didn't end up benefiting Aus.
The red card situation definitely favoured Australia. They only lost Swinton but the ABs lost Ofa and Akira. The consequence of that was that Lomax played much more minutes than he was expected to, and faded in the 2nd half, and it removed one of the better performing players through no fault of his own. Losing a front rower to a red card early in a game is always a double whammy.
That's a fair point. Though we didn't have to lose Akira. We just went with the cookie cutter "sub off your 6 if you lose a front rower" despite Akira being one of our most effective players on the park.
-
@No-Quarter said in Who is to blame?:
@Bovidae said in Who is to blame?:
@No-Quarter said in Who is to blame?:
In terms of cards we came out better off. Reece committed an obvious professional foul on our 22 in the first half, just flopping on the ball and hanging onto it to stop them clearing. Similar to Koroibete but probably worse and got away with just a penalty.
I said before I'm not a fan of the card happy refs but it didn't end up benefiting Aus.
The red card situation definitely favoured Australia. They only lost Swinton but the ABs lost Ofa and Akira. The consequence of that was that Lomax played much more minutes than he was expected to, and faded in the 2nd half, and it removed one of the better performing players through no fault of his own. Losing a front rower to a red card early in a game is always a double whammy.
That's a fair point. Though we didn't have to lose Akira. We just went with the cookie cutter "sub off your 6 if you lose a front rower" despite Akira being one of our most effective players on the park.
Couldn't they just swap the prop in for scrums? Or is that only in the case of injuries?
-
@No-Quarter said in Who is to blame?:
Overall I think we are still very vulnerable and we don't react particularly well when things aren't going our way. I think teams will back themselves to play basic, aggressive rugby and wait for us to start making mistakes
That is hard to do well for 80 minutes though. Accurate rush defences are bloody hard to break down, but hard to get right. I hope someone will find a way of unlocking them, and it'll be attack happy again, with good rugby being rewarded.
I still think it's Lions 1 - slashing diagonal runs near the base of the breakdown that'll get them. Have supporters, just make the defence go up and back, upd and back
-
@nzzp said in Who is to blame?:
@No-Quarter said in Who is to blame?:
Overall I think we are still very vulnerable and we don't react particularly well when things aren't going our way. I think teams will back themselves to play basic, aggressive rugby and wait for us to start making mistakes
That is hard to do well for 80 minutes though. Accurate rush defences are bloody hard to break down, but hard to get right. I hope someone will find a way of unlocking them, and it'll be attack happy again, with good rugby being rewarded.
I still think it's Lions 1 - slashing diagonal runs near the base of the breakdown that'll get them. Have supporters, just make the defence go up and back, upd and back
You allude to it already, but a rush defense is only effective against teams trying to spin it wide when they don't have front foot ball I.E. the ABs under Hansen and Foster the last few years. The very simple answer is keep it in close where the rush defense doesn't apply and get some go-forward. As soon as you get some front foot ball it's nearly impossible for the opposition to do any kind of rushing up without being miles offside. We saw that's the answer in Lions 1, it's absolutely baffling that we haven't learnt from that.
-
@No-Quarter said in Who is to blame?:
@nzzp said in Who is to blame?:
@No-Quarter said in Who is to blame?:
Overall I think we are still very vulnerable and we don't react particularly well when things aren't going our way. I think teams will back themselves to play basic, aggressive rugby and wait for us to start making mistakes
That is hard to do well for 80 minutes though. Accurate rush defences are bloody hard to break down, but hard to get right. I hope someone will find a way of unlocking them, and it'll be attack happy again, with good rugby being rewarded.
I still think it's Lions 1 - slashing diagonal runs near the base of the breakdown that'll get them. Have supporters, just make the defence go up and back, upd and back
You allude to it already, but a rush defense is only effective against teams trying to spin it wide when they don't have front foot ball I.E. the ABs under Hansen and Foster the last few years. The very simple answer is keep it in close where the rush defense doesn't apply and get some go-forward. As soon as you get some front foot ball it's nearly impossible for the opposition to do any kind of rushing up without being miles offside. We saw that's the answer in Lions 1, it's absolutely baffling that we haven't learnt from that.
We have learned from it though because we saw it in Bledisloe 2 (better execution) and in small parts in Bledisloe 3.
It’s just that we aren’t able to pull off the plays all the time because as @nzzp mentioned and I agree, it’s tough to sustain.
-
@No-Quarter said in Who is to blame?:
@Bovidae said in Who is to blame?:
@No-Quarter said in Who is to blame?:
In terms of cards we came out better off. Reece committed an obvious professional foul on our 22 in the first half, just flopping on the ball and hanging onto it to stop them clearing. Similar to Koroibete but probably worse and got away with just a penalty.
I said before I'm not a fan of the card happy refs but it didn't end up benefiting Aus.
The red card situation definitely favoured Australia. They only lost Swinton but the ABs lost Ofa and Akira. The consequence of that was that Lomax played much more minutes than he was expected to, and faded in the 2nd half, and it removed one of the better performing players through no fault of his own. Losing a front rower to a red card early in a game is always a double whammy.
That's a fair point. Though we didn't have to lose Akira. We just went with the cookie cutter "sub off your 6 if you lose a front rower" despite Akira being one of our most effective players on the park.
Teams train to play without a 6 though and I'm pretty sure it's been clearly thought through that that is where you can best hide the gap.
I guess you could have chosen Ardie instead, but that would be losing one of our best players over the past couple of years for a guy on debut who had had a bright 20 minutes.
I don't think it's a very valid argument.
-
@Chris-B said in Who is to blame?:
@No-Quarter said in Who is to blame?:
@Bovidae said in Who is to blame?:
@No-Quarter said in Who is to blame?:
In terms of cards we came out better off. Reece committed an obvious professional foul on our 22 in the first half, just flopping on the ball and hanging onto it to stop them clearing. Similar to Koroibete but probably worse and got away with just a penalty.
I said before I'm not a fan of the card happy refs but it didn't end up benefiting Aus.
The red card situation definitely favoured Australia. They only lost Swinton but the ABs lost Ofa and Akira. The consequence of that was that Lomax played much more minutes than he was expected to, and faded in the 2nd half, and it removed one of the better performing players through no fault of his own. Losing a front rower to a red card early in a game is always a double whammy.
That's a fair point. Though we didn't have to lose Akira. We just went with the cookie cutter "sub off your 6 if you lose a front rower" despite Akira being one of our most effective players on the park.
Teams train to play without a 6 though and I'm pretty sure it's been clearly thought through that that is where you can best hide the gap.
I guess you could have chosen Ardie instead, but that would be losing one of our best players over the past couple of years for a guy on debut who had had a bright 20 minutes.
I don't think it's a very valid argument.
And yes Sevu was having a stinker but you don’t replace a back in that circumstance unless you are willing to have a forward defend in the backline at set piece.
-
@ACT-Crusader said in Who is to blame?:
@Chris-B said in Who is to blame?:
@No-Quarter said in Who is to blame?:
@Bovidae said in Who is to blame?:
@No-Quarter said in Who is to blame?:
In terms of cards we came out better off. Reece committed an obvious professional foul on our 22 in the first half, just flopping on the ball and hanging onto it to stop them clearing. Similar to Koroibete but probably worse and got away with just a penalty.
I said before I'm not a fan of the card happy refs but it didn't end up benefiting Aus.
The red card situation definitely favoured Australia. They only lost Swinton but the ABs lost Ofa and Akira. The consequence of that was that Lomax played much more minutes than he was expected to, and faded in the 2nd half, and it removed one of the better performing players through no fault of his own. Losing a front rower to a red card early in a game is always a double whammy.
That's a fair point. Though we didn't have to lose Akira. We just went with the cookie cutter "sub off your 6 if you lose a front rower" despite Akira being one of our most effective players on the park.
Teams train to play without a 6 though and I'm pretty sure it's been clearly thought through that that is where you can best hide the gap.
I guess you could have chosen Ardie instead, but that would be losing one of our best players over the past couple of years for a guy on debut who had had a bright 20 minutes.
I don't think it's a very valid argument.
And yes Sevu was having a stinker but you don’t replace a back in that circumstance unless you are willing to have a forward defend in the backline at set piece.
we took Kaino off for SBWs explosion against the Lions didn't we? That says pretty much everything.
-
@mariner4life said in Who is to blame?:
@ACT-Crusader said in Who is to blame?:
@Chris-B said in Who is to blame?:
@No-Quarter said in Who is to blame?:
@Bovidae said in Who is to blame?:
@No-Quarter said in Who is to blame?:
In terms of cards we came out better off. Reece committed an obvious professional foul on our 22 in the first half, just flopping on the ball and hanging onto it to stop them clearing. Similar to Koroibete but probably worse and got away with just a penalty.
I said before I'm not a fan of the card happy refs but it didn't end up benefiting Aus.
The red card situation definitely favoured Australia. They only lost Swinton but the ABs lost Ofa and Akira. The consequence of that was that Lomax played much more minutes than he was expected to, and faded in the 2nd half, and it removed one of the better performing players through no fault of his own. Losing a front rower to a red card early in a game is always a double whammy.
That's a fair point. Though we didn't have to lose Akira. We just went with the cookie cutter "sub off your 6 if you lose a front rower" despite Akira being one of our most effective players on the park.
Teams train to play without a 6 though and I'm pretty sure it's been clearly thought through that that is where you can best hide the gap.
I guess you could have chosen Ardie instead, but that would be losing one of our best players over the past couple of years for a guy on debut who had had a bright 20 minutes.
I don't think it's a very valid argument.
And yes Sevu was having a stinker but you don’t replace a back in that circumstance unless you are willing to have a forward defend in the backline at set piece.
we took Kaino off for SBWs explosion against the Lions didn't we? That says pretty much everything.
Yep and Laumape came on.
-
@ACT-Crusader said in Who is to blame?:
@mariner4life said in Who is to blame?:
@ACT-Crusader said in Who is to blame?:
@Chris-B said in Who is to blame?:
@No-Quarter said in Who is to blame?:
@Bovidae said in Who is to blame?:
@No-Quarter said in Who is to blame?:
In terms of cards we came out better off. Reece committed an obvious professional foul on our 22 in the first half, just flopping on the ball and hanging onto it to stop them clearing. Similar to Koroibete but probably worse and got away with just a penalty.
I said before I'm not a fan of the card happy refs but it didn't end up benefiting Aus.
The red card situation definitely favoured Australia. They only lost Swinton but the ABs lost Ofa and Akira. The consequence of that was that Lomax played much more minutes than he was expected to, and faded in the 2nd half, and it removed one of the better performing players through no fault of his own. Losing a front rower to a red card early in a game is always a double whammy.
That's a fair point. Though we didn't have to lose Akira. We just went with the cookie cutter "sub off your 6 if you lose a front rower" despite Akira being one of our most effective players on the park.
Teams train to play without a 6 though and I'm pretty sure it's been clearly thought through that that is where you can best hide the gap.
I guess you could have chosen Ardie instead, but that would be losing one of our best players over the past couple of years for a guy on debut who had had a bright 20 minutes.
I don't think it's a very valid argument.
And yes Sevu was having a stinker but you don’t replace a back in that circumstance unless you are willing to have a forward defend in the backline at set piece.
we took Kaino off for SBWs explosion against the Lions didn't we? That says pretty much everything.
Yep and Laumape came on.
no wonder we fucking lost.
actually, as another black mark on the many, many marks of TJP's career, if A Smith played 80 that day, we win.
-
@mariner4life one thing I faintly remember was when Vunipola got carded in the second half, I don’t think there was a scrum for a while so they weren’t forced to make a sub close to the time before he was able to come back on or be fully replaced.
-
@MN5 said in Who is to blame?:
@NTA said in Who is to blame?:
@mariner4life said in Who is to blame?:
Okay I've just watched skinny Ioane carry on after a try, and he's heading for the top of the list.
And he did his stupid put-down again. Did he have a bad experience actually touching the ground as a kid?
If he bombs another try because he drops it in this fashion, does he get dropped for good?
His carry on was enough to make even Jeff Wilson blush.
Cullen just gave a bit of a wink after beating seven Scots defenders back in 96.
But I guess it was only Scotland
We had to put up for years with Wilson carrying on like a twat after scoring tries, with barely a murmur, now a dude with the last name Ioane does it and it's the end of the world.
-
-
@chimoaus said in Who is to blame?:
I blame whoever sorted out the Aussie scrum, it has been a fucken long time since they held their own, and dare I say they dominated a few.
their scrum has been good for a couple of years. The found a bunch of really strong props, and got proper beef behind them. Even as far back as 2015 their scrum was solid. It's just now got even better, even without their premier locks.
-
@mariner4life said in Who is to blame?:
@chimoaus said in Who is to blame?:
I blame whoever sorted out the Aussie scrum, it has been a fucken long time since they held their own, and dare I say they dominated a few.
their scrum has been good for a couple of years. The found a bunch of really strong props, and got proper beef behind them. Even as far back as 2015 their scrum was solid. It's just now got even better, even without their premier locks.
True, I also think the scrum penalty they won was with 7 players.
-
All I know is that Ardie or Akira would have looked much more comfortable lining up with the backs than ALB looked packing into that scrum.
-
@Nepia said in Who is to blame?:
@MN5 said in Who is to blame?:
@NTA said in Who is to blame?:
@mariner4life said in Who is to blame?:
Okay I've just watched skinny Ioane carry on after a try, and he's heading for the top of the list.
And he did his stupid put-down again. Did he have a bad experience actually touching the ground as a kid?
If he bombs another try because he drops it in this fashion, does he get dropped for good?
His carry on was enough to make even Jeff Wilson blush.
Cullen just gave a bit of a wink after beating seven Scots defenders back in 96.
But I guess it was only Scotland
We had to put up for years with Wilson carrying on like a twat after scoring tries, with barely a murmur, now a dude with the last name Ioane does it and it's the end of the world.
People didn’t have the fern or stuff.co.nz to vent their rage at Wilson, they just had to whinge to whoever was standing next to them at the pub
-
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Who is to blame?:
All I know is that Ardie or Akira would have looked much more comfortable lining up with the backs than ALB looked packing into that scrum.
100% - Ardie could have defended in the backline if needed, especially closer in - dare I say it at 12...
-
@No-Quarter said in Who is to blame?:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Who is to blame?:
All I know is that Ardie or Akira would have looked much more comfortable lining up with the backs than ALB looked packing into that scrum.
100% - Ardie could have defended in the backline if needed, especially closer in - dare I say it at 12...
And date I say done a better job than Laumape... 😉
