The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread
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@Kirwan said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
If our opposition plays conservatively, or kicks well, this team is going to struggle.
That's an easy statement to make when you know it's pretty much not going to happen eh. Or are you worried this will happen against Arg/Aus?
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@Bones said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
@Kirwan said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
If our opposition plays conservatively, or kicks well, this team is going to struggle.
That's an easy statement to make when you know it's pretty much not going to happen eh. Or are you worried this will happen against Arg/Aus?
I’d say it if it was the week before an SA or England test too. Go back over 2019 and you’ll see similar posts, some making 1991 comparisons.
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I think there are certainly some positive developments so far for Fozzie.
- Improvement from test 1 to test 3 in the kicking game tactics exploiting space
- Some signs of tactical nous exposing weaknesses in opposition (ABs attacked the shortside/blindside a lot on Saturday to great effect, Mounga's first try, Clarke's nearly try, Rieko's try etc)
- A solid midfield combination to at least build from (Goodhue 12 ALB 13)
- Exposure of rookie players all who have looked comfortable (Vaai, Clarke, Sotutu, PUJ, Hodgman)
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The aussies had a 20 yr old at 10 on debut. And a debutant at 12. Their centre is 20 also.
It's hardly a fucken victory for the ages, we know they don't have a lot of depth and that's the whole guts of the backline. To make it a fair fight we'd have to pick um who... Lincoln Mclutchie at 10, TJ Faiane at 12, and Leicester Fainganuku at 13? -
@Kirwan said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
@Bones said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
@Kirwan said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
If our opposition plays conservatively, or kicks well, this team is going to struggle.
That's an easy statement to make when you know it's pretty much not going to happen eh. Or are you worried this will happen against Arg/Aus?
I’d say it if it was the week before an SA or England test too. Go back over 2019 and you’ll see similar posts, some making 1991 comparisons.
Yes but it's not the week before an England or SA test, why would he play Aussie with poor tactics designed for other sides? That would be the sign of awful coaching and utterly ridiculous.
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Random thoughts ... kind of maybe contradictory but I'll throw them out there ...
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Listened to Andrew Saville and Guy Haveldt on ZB via the internerds while on my walk this morning. Was surprised at how positive they were about the All Blacks' performance. Frankly I thought we were ordinary against an ordinary opposition. Especially the 30mins after halftime. Did I miss something? (Scoreline notwithstanding .)
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I get the angst about how we seem to only be able to score off turnover. But firstly
a. scoring as soon as you get the ball is a good thing.
b. Scoring early in your possession means you don't have to create sustained pressure. Who is going to get the ball, back off, say "whoa ... we need to build pressure before we score" when we can actually score now? ABs looked good early building pressure and attacking weaknesses. Then scored a few turnover tries. We're hard markers.
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@Bones said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
@Kirwan said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
@Bones said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
@Kirwan said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
If our opposition plays conservatively, or kicks well, this team is going to struggle.
That's an easy statement to make when you know it's pretty much not going to happen eh. Or are you worried this will happen against Arg/Aus?
I’d say it if it was the week before an SA or England test too. Go back over 2019 and you’ll see similar posts, some making 1991 comparisons.
Yes but it's not the week before an England or SA test, why would he play Aussie with poor tactics designed for other sides? That would be the sign of awful coaching and utterly ridiculous.
It’s been an issue for years, and I see no sign that it’s been resolved. The first 20 of the second half showed what happens to us when a team maintains possession and makes their tackles.
Aussie can’t maintain it longer but other teams can. It’s a valid concern even against Oz and Argentina.
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Honestly would not be that shocked if we gave SA a hiding over the next time that we meet them, I would guess we are in much better shape than they are at the moment, and lets not forget we have owned them over the past 5 years (or much longer) , even if they are World champions. England hardly set the world on fire from what I saw this past weekend but would be a step up for us. France looks like the most challenging team at the moment.
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@DMX said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
Honestly would not be that shocked if we gave SA a hiding over the next time that we meet them, I would guess we are in much better shape than they are at the moment, and lets not forget we have owned them over the past 5 years (or much longer) , even if they are World champions. England hardly set the world on fire from what I saw this past weekend but would be a step up for us. France looks like the most challenging team at the moment.
Let's be honest, we can give pretty much anyone a hiding if things go even marginally better for us than they do for our opposition - we're just that kind of team.
People's quite valid concern is the team's ability to grind out a less-than-a-score win when we're held to less than 20 ourselves. Tied to that is a concern about how we use the ball when under pressure or things aren't working perfectly for us - how smart are we playing? Are we kicking intelligently? Or are we trying to go too much side to side or throw too many passe that just aren't on?
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@DMX I think we can definitely beat them but doubt that it will be a hiding. We simply don't have the pack to dominate them or England atm. How many ABs would currently make a combined AB/Bok pack? I think only Cane and Whitelock would. We have better backs though.
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@akan004 said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
@DMX I think we can definitely beat them but doubt that it will be a hiding. We simply don't have the pack to dominate them or England atm. How many ABs would currently make a combined AB/Bok pack atm? I think only Cane and Whitelock would. We have better backs though.
Re Boks: I think our pack is better since we last played them, Mtawarira gone, Vermulen and Louw are up there in years. We are much stronger without Read, and have other players getting better. I think you are underrating our pack against theirs. Also they will never have the benefit of the one month preparation that they had for the world Cup, until next world Cup.
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We might be stronger in some positions but we don't have our best 14 sorted, enough locks, a totally resolved midfield, and without A Smith we are probably stuffed.
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@nostrildamus said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
We might be stronger in some positions but we don't have our best 14 sorted, enough locks, a totally resolved midfield, and without A Smith we are probably stuffed.
How is any of that different than when we beat them last?
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@DMX
teams https://www.rugbyworldcup.com/2019/match/newzealand-southafrica
Arguably
3 Laulala was better last year
6 Frizzel might be better (well, specialist) than 2019 Ardie at 6
8 Sotutu better now than 2019 Read (am I allowed to say this?)
11 Clarke better now even than G Bridge then
12 Crotty better (arguably) than J Goodhue at 12
14 Reece better last year (faster anyway) than JB now -
@nostrildamus said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
@DMX
teams https://www.rugbyworldcup.com/2019/match/newzealand-southafrica
Arguably
3 Laulala was better last year
6 Frizzel might be better (well, specialist) than 2019 Ardie at 6
8 Sotutu better now than 2019 Read (am I allowed to say this?)
11 Clarke better now even than G Bridge then
12 Crotty better (arguably) than J Goodhue at 12
14 Reece better last year (faster anyway) than JB nowYou seem to be arguing much of my my case for me. I would add Ofa same as last years Laulala, Whitelock playing better, Patty T. better than Barrett, any of our two backrows better, Ritchie better otherwise backs not that different, I'll give you Crotty over Goodhue at 12.
I was also making the point that "but we don't have our best 14 sorted, enough locks, a totally resolved midfield, and without A Smith we are probably stuffed." were things you could have equally said last year.
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@nostrildamus said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
We might be stronger in some positions but we don't have our best 14 sorted, enough locks, a totally resolved midfield, and without A Smith we are probably stuffed.
What have SA got sorted?
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@Bones @DMX
I'm not really trying to say 2020 SA would easily beat ABs.
I guess more I am saying there are still things that really need fixing especially if we played 2020/2021 England that was like England 2019.
Against the Boks I would expect them to be better because their coach is good (Coach of 2019) and seems adaptable.
I reckon he noticed how England strangled the ABs and if those crucial positions aren't fixed he may have the time and team to better implement England-like tactics.
Therefore 2020 Johan 'Rassie' Erasmus + neo-England/Eddie strategy + more experienced Boks > than 2019 Johan 'Rassie' Erasmus plus baby Boks.
I'm no expert on the current Boks so perhaps I am mistaken there. -
@nostrildamus yeah I'm no fan of fozzie but it just makes zero sense to me to be dismissing the ABs on how they're playing because they didn't absolutely dominate the opposition from 0-80 and might struggle playing like that against a team who either isn't even going to play, or last played well in a game last year that they honed their whole 4 year cycle on.
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@Kirwan said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
The current side reminds of 2003 where we rely on opposition mistakes and them kicking to us. If our opposition plays conservatively, or kicks well, this team is going to struggle.
TBF, I've seen enough in the last 2 tests to suggest the ABs are aware of this and starting to tighten up their play.
The trick is to be able to throw the switch when needed and that may be some time off, but at least it's progress, I guess, that they are at least working on it.
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@Bones I'm not dismissing the ABs at all, I just find it hard to measure their level because Wallabies test 1 were so good and 2/3 fell away dramatically.
Bled 3 is super hard to judge because they did not have JoC and Toomua there-I think everyone agrees they lack experience and control in important positions if those 2 are not there. And possibly White is key as well.
